Linn versus Naim amps

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RichardMoore
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Comparison with Naim

Post by RichardMoore »

Have any of you compared the new PSU-equipped Linn amps with Naim amps at the same level? E.g. 282/Hi/250 vs. AkuratePre/2200?

I know the answer is "do the dem yourself" but it's not the easiest demo for many to do outside the UK where the Linn/Naim dealer combo is less prevalent.

Anyone any views?

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Tony Tune-age
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Re: Comparison with Naim

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RichardMoore wrote:Have any of you compared the new PSU-equipped Linn amps with Naim amps at the same level? E.g. 282/Hi/250 vs. AkuratePre/2200?

I know the answer is "do the dem yourself" but it's not the easiest demo for many to do outside the UK where the Linn/Naim dealer combo is less prevalent.
I've never heard direct comparisons between similar Naim and Linn components, but have heard Naim systems and Linn systems separately. There are numerous reviews regarding both companies, but I've not seen any reviews comparing Naim components against similar Linn components. Not sure why... :?:
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Post by donuk »

When I bought most of my present system three years ago I demoed a Majik Control + Majik 2100 against similarly priced Naim kit (I think the Naim was just a little bit cheaper). It was arranged by Hamish at The Sound Organisation, York. I had a Naim CD5 source and Dynaudio speakers.
It was interesting - both were nice - but for my ears the choice was easy. While the Naim amps produced more detail, the Linn was far more musical. I don't know much about Tunedemming, but I am a musician and I like to think I know what to listen for. (Having said that, most of the musicians I know have terrible systems).
When I got the Dynamik power supply for the 2100 last year - Wow! Like adding another 50watts and a spoonful of sugar.
I note on other forums that it can be fashionable to insult Linn amplifiers. I think generally they are very good. They do not make music sound like hifi. If you are expecting a traditional hifi sound you may be disappointed.
For twenty years before this I had been listening to all my music through valves. I found the move to Linn quite painless.
Sorry to have rambled, must go and cook some food!
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

donuk wrote:When I bought most of my present system three years ago I demoed a Majik Control + Majik 2100 against similarly priced Naim kit (I think the Naim was just a little bit cheaper). It was interesting - both were nice - but for my ears the choice was easy. While the Naim amps produced more detail, the Linn was far more musical.
I have heard statements like this from many people over the years, and I've seen statements like this made on various forums as well :!:
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Tony Tune-age wrote:
donuk wrote:When I bought most of my present system three years ago I demoed a Majik Control + Majik 2100 against similarly priced Naim kit (I think the Naim was just a little bit cheaper). It was interesting - both were nice - but for my ears the choice was easy. While the Naim amps produced more detail, the Linn was far more musical.
I have heard statements like this from many people over the years, and I've seen statements like this made on various forums as well :!:
However, I'm still surprised there aren't more audio reviews comparing Naim components to similar Linn componets. Perhaps there's an agreement between the companies not to make direct comparisons in audio reviews :wink: .
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Post by Charlie1 »

You might find this thread of interest Tony:

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... =naim#2982
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Charlie1 wrote:You might find this thread of interest Tony:

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... =naim#2982
Thanks for the thread Charlie1, I'll check it out... :!:
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Post by doze84 »

Tony Tune-age wrote:
Charlie1 wrote:You might find this thread of interest Tony:

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... =naim#2982
Thanks for the thread Charlie1, I'll check it out... :!:
I red in a page that the last T in PRaT stands for timing or tune, which was described as a wavefront containing all the frequencies reaching the ear at the exact same time(an example of a bass-drum and a cymbal was used). Simultaneity.
which sounds to me pretty much like tune dem.. but according Lejonklou's the testimonies from the link above that doesn't seem to be top priority to them always.. sadly.

The information I got about PRaT was from the tnt-audio page.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/prat_e.html
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

doze84 wrote:The information I got about PRaT was from the tnt-audio page.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/edcorner/prat_e.html
Thanks, I just now read the article 8) . Very interesting history :!:
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Post by Azazello »

Some years ago, I listened to Naim equipment a few times, mostly different versions of their 5 series. The demo's where conducted at different dealers and I should ad that none of them where proper A/B - comparisons, but rather "listen to this system in one room and another system in a different room". Unfortunately I got disappointed every time, since I always preferred the Linn equipment at the same or lower price by a wide margin.

This was quite a disappointment to me, since I think that Naim equipment is better looking and I also like Naims approach to HiFi more. :|
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Azazello wrote:Some years ago, I listened to Naim equipment a few times, mostly different versions of their 5 series. The demo's where conducted at different dealers and I should ad that none of them where proper A/B - comparisons, but rather "listen to this system in one room and another system in a different room". Unfortunately I got disappointed every time, since I always preferred the Linn equipment at the same or lower price by a wide margin.

This was quite a disappointment to me, since I think that Naim equipment is better looking and I also like Naims approach to HiFi more. :|
It always surprises me how many people think Linn has a better sound overall, than Naim. Like you Azazello, I haven't been able to make direct comparisons between Naim systems and Linn systems. However, I have heard components from both companies that sound great :!:

Although in the end, I have selected Linn components over Naim :wink:
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Post by ThomasOK »

I did not initially post on this thread as the question was about specific Naim components vs. equivalent Linn components. Since it has evolved into a more general thread I will give a couple of my observations.

We recently had some Naim gear in here for demo as the Naim distributor wanted us to become a dealer. The main units they left with us were the CD5 XS and the NAIT XS. While here I did have a chance to do some comparisons with other products. What I found was that the Majik-I was definitely more musical and tuneful than the NAIT XS with a more even and balanced sound. The CD5 XS also didn't fare well in the comparison. The Majik CD was more tuneful, easier to hear the nuances of playing and again more balanced with the Naim sounding a bit more forward and superficially detailed. I also compared the CD5 XS to the Rega Saturn and felt the Saturn was better as well, more tuneful and just easier to listen to. The pricing in the us is Majik CD $3500, CD5 XS $3150, Saturn $2395 so the Naim was beaten by both units a bit above and substantially below its price. The NAIT XS is $2450 vs. $2975 for the Majik-I but the Majik-I includes a MM phono stage which is optional on the NAIT and adds $475 to the price making them about the same.

We also has the Naim HDX here for a while. It is an interesting piece of gear and the Naim guys even recommended using it as a ripping server for the DS units but nobody here thought it sounded as good as a Majik DS and there were some limitations in the HDX we weren't thrilled with.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

ThomasOK wrote:I did not initially post on this thread as the question was about specific Naim components vs. equivalent Linn components. Since it has evolved into a more general thread I will give a couple of my observations.
You are correct Thomas, the thread was specifically about similar Linn and Naim components. But it hasn't been easy for me to actually have access to similar components from both companies, especially at the same time :wink: . However, your experiences and observations regarding the subject matter are certainly helpful...at least for me :!:

Sonic comparisons between these two companies don't seem to get very much print, unless I'm not looking in the right places or at the right publications.
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Post by Efraim roots »

One thing that I found both interesting and disapointing about Naim is that the first Nait is better than present Nac202/Nap200 by tune dem.

With the separate PSU's HiCap and NaPSC the 202/200 is little better by tune dem but everything else about the sound is much better ofcourse. The 202/Hicap/Napsc/200 reminds quite much about the Nait 1 actually in terms of pace, rythm and timing.

I believe that choosing Naim is a compromize in musicality and not cost effective. But still, I have done this compromize and I think I'm happy with it. I will demo the Majik-I in my home to see if that maybe change my mind as that would free up alot of cash.

The reason I choose Naim amps is that it reminds me of the PA sound you get on live events, the 'real' sounding drums and percussion, the powerful bass. The energy! At the same time it's 'good enough' in terms of musicality. But it's very expensive for being 'good enough'. I also try to maximise the musicality in my HiFi with a good LP12, Lejonklou phonopre and Linn speakers. I will also get some Linn powercords for the Naim amps, which is better without any downsides.

I feel Naim is more commercial than Linn and often sold by random Hifi dealers who also sell junk, and everywhere on forums and magazines people talk about that Naim are sooo musical. This really make me wonder how bad other big Hifi brands must be.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Efraim roots wrote:One thing that I found both interesting and disapointing about Naim is that the first Nait is better than present Nac202/Nap200 by tune dem.

With the separate PSU's HiCap and NaPSC the 202/200 is little better by tune dem but everything else about the sound is much better ofcourse. The 202/Hicap/Napsc/200 reminds quite much about the Nait 1 actually in terms of pace, rythm and timing.

The reason I choose Naim amps is that it reminds me of the PA sound you get on live events, the 'real' sounding drums and percussion, the powerful bass. The energy! At the same time it's 'good enough' in terms of musicality. But it's very expensive for being 'good enough'.
Your experiences are certainly interesting, and are very similar to many other opinions. No doubt I'll stay with Linn components, unless there is a major breakthrough in sonic performance by another company :wink: .
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Post by ThomasOK »

When trying for the most musical performance we can get for the money we naturally tend to end up choosing among the handful of the most musical pieces out there. But it is instructive to note just how poor, in terms of musicality (read ability to play the tune) most of the equipment out there is.

Before the LK1/LK2 I would put Naim electronics against anything else out there. I started out with a 42/110 and worked my way up to 32/HI-CAP/2x135s in fairly shirt order. Even the 42/110 trounced anything else we had in the store at the time (Bryston, Threshold, Conrad Johnson, Apt, PS Audio, Hafler, etc.). The 32/HI-CAP/250 was a revelation. I used to have fun going around to dealers and demoing how much more musical the $399 NAIT 1 was compared to a $7000 tack of top-rated CJ tube gear.

Overall the Naim gear is quite good, I just don't find it competitive with Linn in its ability to really make reproduced music understandable and enjoyable in the home.
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Post by Music Lover »

Thomas, have you heard naims latest products?
A frind of mine has a top of the line active system; 555/552/3*500/active DBL (and Fraim racks all over the living room :wink: ) and it is very good.
He also own a LP12 btw...
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Music Lover wrote:A frind of mine has a top of the line active system; 555/552/3*500/active DBL (and Fraim racks all over the living room :wink: ) and it is very good.
Has anybody had the opportunity to compare the Linn Klimax Kontrol against the Naim 552 preamplifier? Or perhaps comparing the matching power amplifiers?
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Post by ThomasOK »

Music Lover wrote:Thomas, have you heard naims latest products?
A frind of mine has a top of the line active system; 555/552/3*500/active DBL (and Fraim racks all over the living room :wink: ) and it is very good.
He also own a LP12 btw...
I haven't heard anything like this in a situation where I could really evaluate it. I heard a DamnBigLoudspeaker active system a number of years back at a show, before the 555 existed, and it was making a good sound. The DBLs do have a really fine woofer. :wink:

Of course, if he listens to vinyl, he owns an LP12...but there's a good chance it has an Aro on it.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

ThomasOK wrote:Of course, if he listens to vinyl, he owns an LP12...but there's a good chance it has an Aro on it.
I've never been able to hear an LP12 with the ARO arm, but I'm sure the sound is very good :!: Some people prefer a Linn arm and others prefer another type of tonearm 8) .
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Post by lejonklou »

I've heard the Aro a couple of times, but have never really understood it. To me it has sounded airy and dynamic, but hasn't made much musical sense. On the very first demo, just after it was released, I heard it compared to an Ittok LVII. I thought the Ittok was clearly better, although it didn't sound as impressive.

Those who really like it, however, claim that my impressions are due to setup issues. The Aro is claimed to be very sensitive to all adjustments.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

lejonklou wrote:I've heard the Aro a couple of times, but have never really understood it. To me it has sounded airy and dynamic, but hasn't made much musical sense. On the very first demo, just after it was released, I heard it compared to an Ittok LVII. I thought the Ittok was clearly better, although it didn't sound as impressive.

Those who really like it, however, claim that my impressions are due to setup issues. The Aro is claimed to be very sensitive to all adjustments.
I can understand the whole "proper set-up" issue, most components do require specific adjustments and such... 8) . However, it was only over a long period of time that I really learned the significance of proper set-up :!: Since my Sondek has always been equiped with Linn components, and It sounds great - I have no reason to use non-Linn parts of any kind :wink: .
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Post by Efraim roots »

Now I have also tried Linn Majik-I/D amplifier up against my Naim 202/HC/PSC/200 amps in my home. I must say they are very similar performers, about same level I would say. I felt that Majik-I had a little more meaning in the music while the Naim combo played a little tighter.

Both tested with Lejonklou Kinki2 phonopre and LP12 and Majik 109 speakers. I also used a very good Linn powercord on the HiCap which feels necessary if you once tried it.

Soundwize I still prefer Naim, it's that real sounding drum and bass thing I don't want to depart with, and a great doze of energy. For me they are worth the extra money, especially as I bought them second hand at good price.

Btw. Lejonklou Kinki2.1 is better than Majik I's MM stage, more tight and engaging.
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Post by Tony Tune-age »

Efraim roots wrote:Soundwize I still prefer Naim, it's that real sounding drum and bass thing I don't want to depart with, and a great doze of energy. For me they are worth the extra money, especially as I bought them second hand at good price.
It would be an interesting comparison between the Linn Klimax Kontrol and the Naim 552 preamplifier 8) . I have seen some articles regarding these two champions, but would appreciate actually being part of the comparison effort :!:
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Post by Per A »

Hi,

I jump in without reading the whole thread, hoping that is OK with you.

I was in a shop the other day where somebody had traded his Akurate DS + Exotik DA for a Boulder preamp with a DAC. Boulder anybody??
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