Is Källa the GOAT?

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Spannko
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Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

I appreciate that this is a bold statement, but bear with me!

There are countless ways to evaluate somethings worth, and for a while now I’ve been using a simple “traffic light” method. I assign something either a red, amber or green rating. For whatever aspect being evaluated, if it is just average, ok or par for the course, it receives an amber rating. It then follows that if it performs below par it receives a red rating and a green is reserved for those items which achieve state of the art performance.

When it comes to HiFi I usually focus on just two aspects: musical fidelity (rhythms and tunes) and sound fidelity, although I appreciate that things like construction, finishing, materials, aesthetics, manufacturer support etc could also be evaluated in the same way.

When thinking about Källa’s musical fidelity, it has to be given a green rating. There’s no way on this earth it could just qualify as an amber - it’s way too good for that. Similarly for sonic fidelity - after 6 months of ownership I’ve yet to find an aspect of its sound presentation which detracts from my enjoyment when listening to music.

The Quality Matrix for Källa looks like this:

CCF1C50D-0F3E-409F-A589-A51F0E3A2F8F.jpeg
There’s nothing particularly extraordinary going on here. It just describes two facets of Källa’s worth. That is, until one starts thinking about which other HiFi components would receive two greens. This is where I struggle. I can’t think of one other HiFi component which would qualify. All of the greatest and most revered components of the past are compromised in one aspect or another: at least the one’s I can think of off the top of my head.

This is how I came to the conclusion that Källa is in the running to be called the Greatest Of All Time HiFi component. Are there any other contenders you can think of?
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Charlie1 »

i can't think of one

Glad you're enjoying it so much. I'm not all that surprised having heard it. There was definitely a 'rightness' about the music.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by ThomasOK »

SINGularity for starters.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by tokenbrit »

Kalla has it over SINGularity on price-performance & accessibility, tho': Kalla fits within a wider range of systems (& budgets) doesn't it - SINGularity is a more exclusive 'club', but that could be argued either way wrt GOATness?
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by tpetsch »

Very good, even perhaps outstanding, yes. But who with a straight face can call any piece of Hi-Fi gear the greatest?

Let alone the Greatest of all Time.

This whole post just seems silly to me.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-06-11 19:00 Very good, even perhaps outstanding, yes. But who with a straight face can call any piece of Hi-Fi gear the greatest?

Let alone the Greatest of all Time.

This whole post just seems silly to me.
Fair enough! Maybe making a claim for being the GOAT is a bit debatable, but what about any component you’ve ever heard which is state of the art in both musical fidelity and sound fidelity?
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

ThomasOK wrote: 2022-06-11 18:34 SINGularity for starters.
I did think about Singularity, but the problem I have with it is you’re the only person with one, so it’s a bit hard to verify!
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

ThomasOK wrote: 2022-06-11 18:34 SINGularity for starters.
Any others on your list?
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by lejonklou »

Too flattering! :)

Actually three pairs of SINGularity have been built and the fourth will be completed and shipped this month. Building that pair is pretty much all I’ve been doing these last few weeks.

I’d like to put the LP12 in that GOAT territory. It’s not a single product, of course, but an entire range. But still, it’s just fantastic. Doesn’t have to be the latest, in fact I prefer it a little older. But even serial number 008 in its original state, which I once serviced in the mid 90’s, could play a tune that I doubt any, or at least extremely few, turntables of today could challenge.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by tpetsch »

Spannko wrote: 2022-06-11 19:20
ThomasOK wrote: 2022-06-11 18:34 SINGularity for starters.
I did think about Singularity, but the problem I have with it is you’re the only person with one, so it’s a bit hard to verify!
I'd like to compare it to my Aura? ...Can I borrow it for a week?
Spannko wrote: 2022-06-11 19:14
tpetsch wrote: 2022-06-11 19:00 Very good, even perhaps outstanding, yes. But who with a straight face can call any piece of Hi-Fi gear the greatest?

Let alone the Greatest of all Time.

This whole post just seems silly to me.
Fair enough! Maybe making a claim for being the GOAT is a bit debatable, but what about any component you’ve ever heard which is state of the art in both musical fidelity and sound fidelity?
I've been an LP12 owner for 35 years, owning several and hearing many at that shop I used to work at, although granted, I have never had the opportunity to listen to the newer Klimax setups which I'm sure are very musical.

But for me the latest game changer to come along in my life is my P10 with Aphelion II and Aura phonostage, it's allowing me to listen to complete album sides with no fatigue for hours, it's overall very musical & enjoyable with no coloration's from the deck itself imposed on the performance. ...Is it the Best analog playback system out there today, probably not, is it the best analog playback system I personally have listened to to date, Yes.

I'm also pretty sure that I would be very impressed with the Kalla, and that says a lot because I have yet to be impressed with any digital playback source for extended listening periods. ...Would love to demo one of these in my home for a week too, sign me up?
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote: 2022-06-11 19:57 I’d like to put the LP12 in that GOAT territory. It’s not a single product, of course, but an entire range. But still, it’s just fantastic. Doesn’t have to be the latest, in fact I prefer it a little older. But even serial number 008 in its original state, which I once serviced in the mid 90’s, could play a tune that I doubt any, or at least extremely few, turntables of today could challenge.
The point I was trying to make about Källa, and what makes it pretty unique, is that it achieves a green rating for sound and music. There’s no doubt that the Linn turntable system has been the most musical turntable ever built. As we’ve heard with charlie1’s videos, even a 30 year old Linn still sounds fantastic and from a musical perspective easily achieves a green rating, and is still the only turntable I would consider owning. But from a sound perspective most people would agree that it can be bettered, and would probably only achieve an amber rating. The very latest Klimax LP12 could very well achieve a green for sound, but for me, the musicality has dropped half a notch which takes the shine off it somewhat. To be universally accepted as a GOAT (and not just by a small group of flat earth nutter’s - I include myself in that group!) a product would need to achieve two green ratings, and these are few and far between!
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by markiteight »

You bring to light an interesting and important aspect of the Tune Method, Spannko, and it's something that I believe hasn't really been discussed much, at least recently. Music and sound are not mutually exclusive! Remember, distortion can (and often does) sound pleasing. A product that conveys a "wider and deeper soundstage" or "a more holographic and transparent presentation" or "better PRaT" is only better if those qualities result in a more musical performance. Otherwise, all of that "more-ness" is actually worse. It is indeed possible, especially in the Hi-Fi world, to have too much of a "good thing."

The LP12's sonic performance is what it is because that is what is needed to provide the level of musical performance it does. No more. No less. It's the same with Källa, and with any product designed to optimize its musical performance. When the Tune Method is used to develop a product, whatever sonic characteristics result are there to serve the music. Any attempt to alter a sonic characteristic will likely make the musical performance worse.

All of this is to say I would exercise caution when trying to evaluate musical and sonic performance separately. If the goal is to evaluate a product's ability to reproduce music, doing so will likely just add confusion and complication to the process. If it plays the music better, it is better.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by matthias »

markiteight wrote: 2022-06-11 22:03 It's the same with Källa, and with any product designed to optimize its musical performance. When the Tune Method is used to develop a product, whatever sonic characteristics result are there to serve the music. Any attempt to alter a sonic characteristic will likely make the musical performance worse.
All of this is to say I would exercise caution when trying to evaluate musical and sonic performance separately. If the goal is to evaluate a product's ability to reproduce music, doing so will likely just add confusion and complication to the process. If it plays the music better, it is better.
Agree completely,
and looking at the version history of Lejonklou products using the Tune Method Fredrik is able to improve his products further, I suppose even Källa :-)
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

markiteight wrote: 2022-06-11 22:03 You bring to light an interesting and important aspect of the Tune Method, Spannko, and it's something that I believe hasn't really been discussed much, at least recently. Music and sound are not mutually exclusive! Remember, distortion can (and often does) sound pleasing. A product that conveys a "wider and deeper soundstage" or "a more holographic and transparent presentation" or "better PRaT" is only better if those qualities result in a more musical performance. Otherwise, all of that "more-ness" is actually worse. It is indeed possible, especially in the Hi-Fi world, to have too much of a "good thing."

The LP12's sonic performance is what it is because that is what is needed to provide the level of musical performance it does. No more. No less. It's the same with Källa, and with any product designed to optimize its musical performance. When the Tune Method is used to develop a product, whatever sonic characteristics result are there to serve the music. Any attempt to alter a sonic characteristic will likely make the musical performance worse.

All of this is to say I would exercise caution when trying to evaluate musical and sonic performance separately. If the goal is to evaluate a product's ability to reproduce music, doing so will likely just add confusion and complication to the process. If it plays the music better, it is better.
In a perfect world, I totally agree. Musicality and sound should be inextricably linked. From a theoretical perspective it would be impossible to have perfect musicality without perfect sound. The requirement for a perfectly aligned fundamental with its harmonics would be the same in both cases.

However, there’s a fly in the ointment! HiFi systems aren’t perfect, which means that we often have to accept a compromise. Loudspeakers are generally considered to be the least perfect component in the HiFi chain - thank goodness they come at the end of the chain where they can do least harm! Some people (myself included) would say that Linn Kans are the most musical speaker ever built (in terms of rhythms and tunes), however nobody in their right mind would say that they’re also the best sounding speaker ever made! Similarly, if we use Quad ELS63’s as an example, since they’re often described as having a reference class sound rating. However they don’t play rhythms and tunes as well as Kans, so they fall down in terms of their musicality.

“ Any attempt to alter a sonic characteristic will likely make the musical performance worse.”

I agree. Which is why finding a component with great musicality and sound is pretty rare!

So far, we’ve only had Källa, Singularity, LP12 and Rega P10 nominated for GOAT. Are there any others?
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Arjen »

Spannko wrote: 2022-06-11 19:14
tpetsch wrote: 2022-06-11 19:00 Very good, even perhaps outstanding, yes. But who with a straight face can call any piece of Hi-Fi gear the greatest?

Let alone the Greatest of all Time.

This whole post just seems silly to me.
Fair enough! Maybe making a claim for being the GOAT is a bit debatable, but what about any component you’ve ever heard which is state of the art in both musical fidelity and sound fidelity?
Yeah, silly and true the same time. There is no goat, but at the same time the whole audioworld is goaling to become some goat. The industry and its marketing ( see Munich, see Axpona), the expert and lover (see Fredrik), the user, lover and DIY-er (see ourselves).
For me with modest Upgraded vintage Lenco TT and step by step upgrading devices (Naim! Slipsik!) cartridges and cables (Nagaoka! Audio Sensibility!) it’s a joy to try by tweaking to get better sound paring the musicality of my system, tweaking with plattermat, with the platter itself (Soundeck!), with footers ( Soundeck! Basso Continuo!) etc. Silly, for a never ending story, but joyful because of the story is never ending. And every night you can conclude if the tweaking has resulted some own goat that day or insulted the musicality of your system that night into some cup of goat’s head soup.
And Spannko, I suppose there is more than Linn LP12, P10, Kalla. It is also in other devices what you just can permit, accept, appreciate and love as your own goat.
Last edited by Arjen on 2022-06-12 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by tpetsch »

Linn Black Interconnect and K-20. ...Maybe not "the best" but the GOAT IMO because in all my years whenever I have pulled some other interconnect/speaker wire and replaced it with the Black and/or K20 the tune improved.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Defender »

for me beside the Källa its for sure the Sagatun Monos where I experienced the same
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

For me, something can only be considered for GOAT status if musically AND sonically they don’t have any deficiencies which draws ones attention to them and detracts from our enjoyment of the music. It’s the requirement for BOTH musical and sonic excellence which qualifies them for inclusion in such an exclusive club. By excelling musically AND sonically, it doesn’t matter what criteria someone uses to evaluate the component, it will be universally accepted as state of the art.

@Defender. I was thinking about Sagatun and Tundra monos too. I’ve heard them sound excellent, but since I haven’t lived with them I don’t think I’m in a position to put them forward for GOAT status.

Another component I’d recommend is the top of the range Dynavector pre and power amplifier.

PS. Just a quick reminder. GOAT’s can’t have any musical or sonic deficits which are sufficient to draw our attention to them. Capeesh?
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by matthias »

Spannko wrote: 2022-06-12 22:07 By excelling musically AND sonically, it doesn’t matter what criteria someone uses to evaluate the component, it will be universally accepted as state of the art.
Universally accepted is impossible but my GOAT are the 3677s. I think I will never replace them.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Arjen »

Talking about musical capability and sonic performance of devices and a total music system is pretty interesting. And a good start for a new thread. But I ‘ve got the feeling talking about the Greatest Of All Time in this thread is narrowed to devices, foremost Linn and Lejonklou devices, devices of other brands left at most as support extras. Am I right, am I wrong #Spannko?
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

Arjen wrote: 2022-06-12 23:35 Talking about musical capability and sonic performance of devices and a total music system is pretty interesting. And a good start for a new thread. But I ‘ve got the feeling talking about the Greatest Of All Time in this thread is narrowed to devices, foremost Linn and Lejonklou devices, devices of other brands left at most as support extras. Am I right, am I wrong #Spannko?
Maybe “The GOAT” is too narrow, what I really mean is a component which excels to such a degree that nothing, either sonically or musically, becomes apparent and detracts from our enjoyment of the music. As far as I’m concerned, we shouldn’t be able to hear the influence of our HiFi systems on the music.

And yes, it’s an extremely exclusive club! I wouldn’t say only Linn and Lejonklou deserve to be admitted, but as you suggest, even finding potential members is pretty difficult.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by tpetsch »

Spannko wrote: 2022-06-13 00:54
Arjen wrote: 2022-06-12 23:35 Talking about musical capability and sonic performance of devices and a total music system is pretty interesting. And a good start for a new thread. But I ‘ve got the feeling talking about the Greatest Of All Time in this thread is narrowed to devices, foremost Linn and Lejonklou devices, devices of other brands left at most as support extras. Am I right, am I wrong #Spannko?
Maybe “The GOAT” is too narrow, what I really mean is a component which excels to such a degree that nothing, either sonically or musically, becomes apparent and detracts from our enjoyment of the music. As far as I’m concerned, we shouldn’t be able to hear the influence of our HiFi systems on the music.

And yes, it’s an extremely exclusive club! I wouldn’t say only Linn and Lejonklou deserve to be admitted, but as you suggest, even finding potential members is pretty difficult.
You say only Linn & Lejonklou deserve to be admitted, many pieces of Linn gear are flawed and unfortunately I and many others have never had the pleasure to hear even one piece of Lejonklou gear in our homes, although you guys really talk up a good show.

The "Linn" LP12 is inherently flawed, this has become obviously apparent over the past few years with the advent of the P8/P10 to name a few, and according to your own admission here here should not even be aloud to compete in your GOAT category. "what I really mean is a component which excels to such a degree that nothing, either sonically or musically, becomes apparent and detracts from our enjoyment of the music", ""something can only be considered for GOAT status if musically AND sonically they don’t have any deficiencies which draws ones attention to them and detracts from our enjoyment of the music. ...Don't get me wrong, the LP12 is very musical but it does embed it's colour upon the sound of every track of every LP played upon it evoking an unnaturally heavy, bloated air upon the performance in comparison.

Just read inbetween the lines of the new Stereophile Klimax review, and how the reviewer goes on to say how the upper midrange has made sonic improvements over the other LP12's he remembers listening too. So even Linn knows about this issue and has applied yet more Band-Aids in an attempt to remedy it rather than go for a completely new clean sheet design, but that's Linns brilliant marketing for you..
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Spannko »

Actually tpetsch, I said exactly the opposite!!! And, I suggested that the Dynavector amplifiers could possibly qualify as being musically and sonically excellent.

Personally, I agree with you about the LP12. For me, it’s the most musical turntable I’ve ever heard, but the most musical LP12’s have a fulsome (yet still very tuneful) bottom end which some people don’t like.
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Defender »

Spannko wrote: 2022-06-12 22:07
@Defender. I was thinking about Sagatun and Tundra monos too. I’ve heard them sound excellent, but since I haven’t lived with them I don’t think I’m in a position to put them forward for GOAT status.
thats why I put them forward for GOAT status
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Re: Is Källa the GOAT?

Post by Lego »

Linn Akiva
I know that tune
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