Klimax Kontrol/1

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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paolo
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Klimax Kontrol/1

Post by paolo »

Hello everybody,
I've recently made a listening test with a fellow Linnie comparing my origianl KK with his KK/1, updated around three months ago.

Let me make a provocative question to anybody who has listening experience about this upgrade: do you really think it's musically better? I mean, we have both been surprised by how much the new preamp sounds more dynamik, clear, forceful and detailed. But also we both have not been sure it was musically superior to the old incarnation. It seems to lack a little bit of intimate cohesion and subtlety in comparison infact. A bit more "a la Naim" if I can say - yes, still a little bit provocative :mrgreen:

We ended up our listening session saying the new preamp is still musically not perfectly "right", both hoping it needs some more burn-in to snap perfectly into place - surely possible but of course we can't know at the moment...
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Post by Moomintroll »

The KK/1 is much better. It is much easier to hear what is going on and tunes are easier to follow.

'troll
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Post by anthony »

There must be something wrong with kk1, it should be considerably better.
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Post by lejonklou »

Haven't heard the two at the same occasion. But I have noticed how impressive the new version sounds. Not sure how much better in musical terms.

I think Charlie reported that he needed to retune his speakers after the KK upgrade. Did you do this when comparing? I find that the same applies to other preamps, like the Kikkin: If you fine tune the entire system using one preamp and then make a comparison with a second preamp, the first preamp will have an advantage.

The more different the preamps sound and the more optimised the system is, the bigger this advantage will be.
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Post by Charlie1 »

My KK/1 upgrade was initially less musical once I got it home, leading to a week or two of panic on my part :roll:, but it did come good in the end and surpass the pre-upgraded performance in terms of musicality or at least my memory of the old version as I wasn't able to perform a side by side tune dem. Sound quality was always much better to my ears in similar way to you and others describe.
paolo wrote:But also we both have not been sure it was musically superior to the old incarnation. It seems to lack a little bit of intimate cohesion and subtlety in comparison infact. A bit more "a la Naim"
Sorry not familiar with Naim pre-amps so can’t comment there. I do recall the original KK sounding softer than the KK/1, slightly warm with a more laid back presentation. I'd need to hear them one after the other to comment more than that. The way you word the musical benefits of the old one make me wonder if there is just something about the presentation you preferred.

I do find the KK/1 allows you into the performance very easily with little effort. However, I never really found the upgrade led to more emotive listening in the way source upgrades can, but I guess that's a very individual thing. I thought it pretty good value in the context of the KKs cost new.

Linn do turn out the odd dud you know. It doesn't always get onto the forums but I know people that have been repeatedly unlucky with under performing products. Maybe Anthony is right and you have one that's not quite right.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2009-10-12 21:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote:I think Charlie reported that he needed to retune his speakers after the KK upgrade. Did you do this when comparing? I find that the same applies to other preamps, like the Kikkin: If you fine tune the entire system using one preamp and then make a comparison with a second preamp, the first preamp will have an advantage.

The more different the preamps sound and the more optimised the system is, the bigger this advantage will be.
Yes, after a few days of being unhappy with the KK/1 I retuned my speakers which made it listenable again, but only just. I had intended to wait a few weeks before doing this. Like I said before, eventually it slowly improved. It was all a little odd and not helped by my worrying like an old woman :)
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Post by Music Lover »

Anyone with a KK that upgraded with Dynamik? Or heard a demo...
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by Charlie1 »

Music Lover wrote:Anyone with a KK that upgraded with Dynamik? Or heard a demo...
If and when any reports come back it's worth baring in mind that the performance gain may depend on how old the original PSU was – at least this is what I’ve been told and that there are at least 2 revisions of the non-Dynamik KK PSU (I think they say on the PSU itself if you look closely).

Mine was rev 1 from first year of production and I got it swapped out for a much more recent non-Dynamik PSU. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to gauge the improvement because I also upgraded my amp at the same time (used Kikkin to gauge the amp upgrade alone), but am told even this is worthwhile. I was mainly keen to get a newer one in case mine failed.
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Post by paolo »

Hi everybody and thank you for your replies.

Ok, it seems the general opinion is that the KK/1 is much better than the old version (well, just like it should be!), though some, as Charlie, has not been happy until the new unit has settled in. This has also been my experience with a number of new products so I'm not surprised at all. Sometimes it can take a lot of time (as far as some months) for the sound becoming completely convincing, sometimes things are ok just out of the box and don't change that much with time. So maybe this is one if those cases where there's still need of some burn-in for the sound to completely settle in.

I'd like to emphasize again that my initial point in this thread was NOT about the sound - wich is much more impressive in the new preamp infact - but about the improvement in musicality that we expected to be larger. We just felt that changing back to the original KK, once we got used again to the "old" more laid back sound - the emotional involvement and the ability to follow the music was not that diminished (maybe the old KK had a little bit more of feeling too...). At least initially.

Infact, in the first comparison there was a "detail" we subsequently found was impacting quite strongly on the performance of KK/1, that's the "enable/disable RS232" option. I'm quite sure this one has been discussed already on this forum anyway with KK/1 I think it makes a bigger difference than I recall with KK. My friend's KK/1 infact had RS232 disabled initially while my KK had it enabled (it's the default value and the best one musically: strange that it can impact the sound but that's it!). When we changed the kK/1 too to "RS232 enabled" the sound got a lot better, considerably more exact, controlled and tuneful. Surpising big difference!

Just a last note on use of balanced connections. After a number of comparison I think that also in this case - KDS to KK/1 - unbalanced is more tuneful. I see there are a number of points in favour of balanced (clearer, cleaner, more dynaamic) but for me unbalanced still allows to better follow the music.
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Post by Charlie1 »

paolo wrote:Infact, in the first comparison there was a "detail" we subsequently found was impacting quite strongly on the performance of KK/1, that's the "enable/disable RS232" option. I'm quite sure this one has been discussed already on this forum anyway with KK/1 I think it makes a bigger difference than I recall with KK. My friend's KK/1 infact had RS232 disabled initially while my KK had it enabled (it's the default value and the best one musically: strange that it can impact the sound but that's it!). When we changed the kK/1 too to "RS232 enabled" the sound got a lot better, considerably more exact, controlled and tuneful. Surpising big difference!
I'd never heard of this. Tried it on mine and it's more tuneful enabled as you say, so thanks for that Paolo.

Mine has the upgraded audio board - not an all-new KK/1 - so it has the older controller board. Do you know if it's only the all-new KK/1 that is most affected by this setting or also upgraded original units? Just curious that's all.
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Post by paolo »

Charlie1 wrote: Mine has the upgraded audio board - not an all-new KK/1 - so it has the older controller board. Do you know if it's only the all-new KK/1 that is most affected by this setting or also upgraded original units? Just curious that's all.
I don't know Charlie, the unit we used for the comparison was just like yours, old KK with the new audio board. I don't think Linn has introduced any significant change with control board in KK/1.
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Post by ThomasOK »

Have not done a direct comparison of KK vs. KK/1 except when I first got my KK/1 which was new out of the box. I felt it was a definite step up in musicality as well as sound but I only did a brief comparison. I hope to make this comparison again soon now that my KK/1 is burned in.

I have to say that I do find my KK/1 to be a fair bit more musical than my old KK. Indeed I was surprised how much more I enjoy the Pekin than I used to. I had originally planned to sell my Pekin once I got a Majik DS and just use internet radio but I think I'll keep it. There is one Detroit radio station that broadcasts classical during the day and jazz at night and they put out a quite good signal.

Charlie1, Paolo is correct that the control board hasn't changed from the KK to the KK/1. I checked this when I swapped the store demo KK control board into my very black KK/1 to troubleshoot the dead display. They have the same part number and I believe even the same Revision number (although I'll double check this - I'll be back inside both units fairly soon). I have known about the RS232 setting for a while. As have others, I have found that a few of the settings have an effect on the sound of the KK. My best guess is that it is similar to the FLAC sounding better than WAV on the KDS dus to the different way the two formats load the power supply. I don't remember all the different optimum settings but I do believe we posted info on this in the forum a while back - I suppose I should look them up myself to make sure I am set that way (although I won't be ablt to do that until my KK/1 is no longer all black :wink: ). From what I recall the KK sounded better with the Balanced input turned off and with the display set to sleep in the shortest possible time - I think 2 seconds. I also set mine so the sleep display shows the Volume level as with that setting it doesn't even appear to be in display sleep.
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Post by Music Lover »

Upgraded my KK to mkII (or /1 as Linn define it) in Feb.
As previosuly reported, one of the bigger upgrades I've made.
Yes, balanced is better in all aspects (from KDS) in my house.

Got it Dynamiked today, not good at all the first hour (more details but boring, confused and slow) but now after 12h, sweeeeet!
Going to give it a week to settle down until I post a mini review but I can say it's going to be VERY good after burn in!!
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Post by ThomasOK »

Just thought I'd mention that Linn has made a small change in the KK/1 though not one that I have seen mentioned anywhere. I just received my brand-new Black KK/1 (so cool looking!) and it now has a power switch! The power switch is on the bottom underneath the front of the unit - rather like the new Akurate units. I'm sure it is there to meet some kind of electrical safety standard. Personally I liked the lack of a power switch, simpler AC path and all that, and I hope there is no musical downside to the addition.

No other changes to the KK/1 as far as I am aware but I haven't opened mine up yet. I want to give it at least a couple of weeks burn in before I tweak the torque settings (although I probably should check the internal power cable direction right away).

One other difference, however, is that this is the first new Linn component I have seen with a US Longwell power cable. So the new power cable has finally made it stateside. Of course, I will have to evaluate it compared to my beloved Tongyuans and the Ta Hsings we still have a stock of. This will be a little while off as I currently have it burning in on the Vidar so that I can compare cables that have all been burned in. Hopefully I'll be able to listen to it sometime in early December. When I do I'll report my findings in the power cable thread.

Unfortunately it didn't come with the new REM 020 that apparently ships with the DSMs. Instead it still has the almost universally despised REM 019 which will stay in the box until I sell it while I use a combination of my mini remote and the big black/gray paddle "you can use it as a weapon" remote which are my two favorites.
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Post by CJ1045 »

The power switch is a regulatory requirement at least in Europe that equipment must be able to be switich off from the front, not just stand-by. It is to conserve electricoty and be green rather than safety.

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Post by lejonklou »

CJ: Do you have any reference to where it's stated that equipment must be able to be switched off from the front? I am unsure of whether this actually is the case. For example, doesn't Linn's range of Majik amplifiers still have the power switch located at the rear panel? I think the reason why the Klimax and new Akurate cases have the switch below the front is that they would be very hard to reach if placed on the rear plate.

What is certainly regulated in the European Union is the maximum power consumption when a consumer unit is in standby. Since January the 7th 2010, it's 1 W for any unit without display and 2 W for a unit with display. Klimax Kontrol most certainly consumes more than that and therefore needs to have an off-switch added. Unfortunately, I can report that this switch does degrade the performance slightly. I have evaluated a bunch of switches and similar to power cords, they do sound quite different.

Effective from January the 7th 2013, the above values are reduced by 50%: Only 0.5 W for units without a display and 1 W for units with display.
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Post by haraldur »

I installed the dynamik to the KK/0 about a week ago. Initially it sounded as the KK was broken. Hard,on the edge to distorted,i have let it stay on running since then and it is getting better over time. I would say that the power supply upgrade is a majour part of the difference between a KK/0 and the KK/1.

By Tuesday the dynamiked KK/0 if we have enough time will have a testrun against a latest spec KK/1

I will also compare the old powersuply to get a reference. Get back with a report later..
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Post by ThomasOK »

Just noticed on a new Klimax Kontrol that we received for a customer that it is labeled Klimax Kontrol/2! Double-checked mine with the power switch and found it is labeled that way as well (surprised I missed it). Makes me wonder if they changed anything else or if it is only the power switch?
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