No, there's weren't any cable comparisons. I was just running in some new K20.

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2022-07-28 09:57 No, there's weren't any cable comparisons. I was just running in some new K20.

Yes, I know.
I just mean as the old split K400/600 was always regarded superior to the new K200 that the K20 might be also superior to the K200. Maybe Thomas did the comparison?

matthias wrote: ↑2022-07-28 16:21

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2022-07-28 09:57 No, there's weren't any cable comparisons. I was just running in some new K20.

Yes, I know.
I just mean as the old split K400/600 was always regarded superior to the new K200 that the K20 might be also superior to the K200. Maybe Thomas did the comparison?

Not in any truly scientific way. I found K200 to be close to split K400 (or Black K200) with the new K200 being very similar to split K400 as if Linn were attempting to match that quality. The new K200 had a clean, detailed sound whereas the Black K200 was more musical with better flow. I was told that the person who was responsible for new K200 basically said the same thing about the differences. Because of this I believe the new K200 is a definite step up from K20 but I have not built a 2.48 meter K20 with Knekts and Lejonklou solder to put this feeling to the test.

K20 /NACA 4 for me always when listening to Analog, but if digital is put into the mix all bets are off..

Thanks guys!

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-07-28 20:00 K20 /NACA 4 for me always when listening to Analog, but if digital is put into the mix all bets are off..

I find split K400 better than K20 on all speakers.
I find split K400 better than K200.
Never compared K200 directly to K20.
I find K20 better than NACA4 and NACA5.

I have never found that a change of source can affect which loudspeaker cable is better.

Thank you Fredrik!

lejonklou wrote: ↑2022-07-28 23:26

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-07-28 20:00 K20 /NACA 4 for me always when listening to Analog, but if digital is put into the mix all bets are off..

I find split K400 better than K20 on all speakers.
I find split K400 better than K200.
Never compared K200 directly to K20.
I find K20 better than NACA4 and NACA5.

I have never found that a change of source can affect which loudspeaker cable is better.

I agree with what Fredrik has said and have found the same.

ThomasOK wrote: ↑2022-07-29 16:22

lejonklou wrote: ↑2022-07-28 23:26

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-07-28 20:00 K20 /NACA 4 for me always when listening to Analog, but if digital is put into the mix all bets are off..

I find split K400 better than K20 on all speakers.
I find split K400 better than K200.
Never compared K200 directly to K20.
I find K20 better than NACA4 and NACA5.

I have never found that a change of source can affect which loudspeaker cable is better.

I agree with what Fredrik has said and have found the same.

I do not agree with Thomas or Frederick, in all my years personally and at the shop nothing was more musical than K20, other cables like those suggested above may offer more resolution but over time become obviously fatiguing by comparison when returning back to K-20. ...And like I mentioned before, if listening to a digital source it's all more fatiguing over extended listening sessions including K-20. I have yet to listen to a digital source than can give me listening pleasure for hours of dedicated listening regardless of the cables used, I'm not talking background listening BTW. ...And to say something like ""I find split K400 better than K20 "on all speakers" is really quite assuming to be perfectly honest..

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-07-29 20:51 And like I mentioned before, if listening to a digital source it's all more fatiguing over extended listening sessions including K-20. I have yet to listen to a digital source than can give me listening pleasure for hours of dedicated listening regardless of the cables used,

Maybe you need a Källa?

Tendaberry wrote: ↑2022-07-30 09:54

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-07-29 20:51 And like I mentioned before, if listening to a digital source it's all more fatiguing over extended listening sessions including K-20. I have yet to listen to a digital source than can give me listening pleasure for hours of dedicated listening regardless of the cables used,

Maybe you need a Källa?

Maybe someone here can post a few demo clips compared to an LP12 using the same tracks, or has that already been done and I missed it? ...Or better yet, is there a loaner program here in the US that I can sign up on??

I agree with your findings on digital sources, tpetsch. Listened to many and have been quite pleased with some, but always ended up a little tired and longing for vinyl after a while. A nice sound is pleasing until you get used to it and start longing for an upgrade.

Källa has changed that completely for me. I still have trouble grasping how intensely addictive and anti-tiring it turned out. It’s like all the different pieces we optimised added up to a much bigger whole.

I noticed the arm collar looks different on the Arko tonearm. It doesn’t extend into the hole in the armboard.
I assume this maybe an improvement over what was used in previous Linn tonearms? I also assume a great percentage of Ekos SE users have Keels so don’t use the supplied arm collar.

Arko unboxing showing new arm collar design:
https://youtu.be/OpfuvjQQh8s


Maybe Thomas can brief us on the evolution of Linn arm collars and how they contact the arm pillar.

Here’s a photo of my Ittok collar. Was wondering if the design changed over the years?

I know this might seem like fanboyism but it's not. I've not tried to live with a digital source for about 25 years but Kalla is the only one I'd be tempted to try. It just sounded 'right' somehow, the way a properly setup LP12 does. But tpetch, there's no point comparing directly to an lp12 - different media and all that.

I agree charlie1. Often, a direct comparison is pointless due to different ways in which albums are mastered. As much as I enjoy listening to Källa, a poor re-mastered version of a favourite vinyl version can be relatively disappointing. However, there are literally millions of music tracks available on Spotify, and it’s not difficult to find musically excellent tracks which in many cases can equal the enjoyment available from vinyl and literally provide hours of entertainment when played on Källa.

Back to k20 vs split k400 and I too prefer k20 when using vintage Naim amps and vintage Linn speakers although I do hear what the split 400 is doing better. It's a bit like original Kairn (K20) vs smps Kairn (split 400) to my ears. Not compared the speaker cables using LK amps but I should really.

When I finally sourced some NACA4 I was surprised how different it sounds to modern K20, the Linn cable being more tuneful, coherent but quite muddy sounding. A4 has a lovely clean sound with tight bass and sparkly top end - comparatively speaking. I'd also read that A4 was physically softer than K20 but it was very much the other way sound now.

With the mod 109s I found the K20 more musical in both aktiv and passive.

M.

Matteo wrote: ↑2022-07-31 16:11 With the mod 109s I found the K20 more musical in both aktiv and passive.

...than the split K400, NACA4 or something else?

matthias wrote: ↑2022-07-31 16:45

Matteo wrote: ↑2022-07-31 16:11 With the mod 109s I found the K20 more musical in both aktiv and passive.

...than the split K400, NACA4 or something else?

Split k400

Never heard Naca4

Naca5 are awful

M.

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2022-07-30 22:25 I know this might seem like fanboyism but it's not. I've not tried to live with a digital source for about 25 years but Kalla is the only one I'd be tempted to try. It just sounded 'right' somehow, the way a properly setup LP12 does. But tpetch, there's no point comparing directly to an lp12 - different media and all that.

I hear what you're saying Charlie, but just a taste of Kala would be interesting nevertheless, a few clips from users, a few choice A/B's from the US distributor or the manufacturer? ...Just to get an idea. Otherwise I have no idea how I would hear a Kalla besides just taking a chance & outright buying one. Any shows near NY planned for the future??

The reason I mentioned A/B clips along with an LP12 is simply because many listeners here have some sort of an idea in their heads on how an LP12 sounds so by using the LP12 along with Kalla, the LP12 would simply be the standard in that particular A/B clip session just so the listener can get a somewhat overall system "feel" basepoint.

Fair enough. Always nice to hear more system clips from members too.

tpetsch wrote: ↑2022-07-31 20:05

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2022-07-30 22:25 I know this might seem like fanboyism but it's not. I've not tried to live with a digital source for about 25 years but Kalla is the only one I'd be tempted to try. It just sounded 'right' somehow, the way a properly setup LP12 does. But tpetch, there's no point comparing directly to an lp12 - different media and all that.

I hear what you're saying Charlie, but just a taste of Kala would be interesting nevertheless, a few clips from users, a few choice A/B's from the US distributor or the manufacturer? ...Just to get an idea. Otherwise I have no idea how I would hear a Kalla besides just taking a chance & outright buying one. Any shows near NY planned for the future??

The reason I mentioned A/B clips along with an LP12 is simply because many listeners here have some sort of an idea in their heads on how an LP12 sounds so by using the LP12 along with Kalla, the LP12 would simply be the standard in that particular A/B clip session just so the listener can get a somewhat overall system "feel" basepoint.

Talk to Thomas O’Keefe and he’ll sort you out!

NACA5 is usually the best choice in a Naim system and is clearly superior to A4. I have not made many comparisons over the years as there was no need. Still, sone decades ago I came up with 5m as the best musical choice, after testing many lengths (AFAIR from 20m back to 5 in 0.5m increments). When I started thinking about Fredriks products and the Tundra stereo blew everything away, it was a split K400 that retired the NAC A5. Since then I have tested the split K400 on two other systems, one tube with horn and one system with notebook, NAP72, NAP 140, Linn Keiligh. And even there it is clearly superior to the NAC A 5 and a Mogami although it has twice the length of the measure recommended by Fredrik. Will maybe go for fun times on the 2.48m, because I still have the other half of the split lying around.
As for the K20 I can not really remember, only know that it had no chance against an A5 at that time. But that was a long time ago and it was mostly Naim devices.

John wrote: ↑2022-07-30 20:57 I noticed the arm collar looks different on the Arko tonearm. It doesn’t extend into the hole in the armboard.
I assume this maybe an improvement over what was used in previous Linn tonearms? I also assume a great percentage of Ekos SE users have Keels so don’t use the supplied arm collar.

Arko unboxing showing new arm collar design:
https://youtu.be/OpfuvjQQh8s


Maybe Thomas can brief us on the evolution of Linn arm collars and how they contact the arm pillar.

Here’s a photo of my Ittok collar. Was wondering if the design changed over the years?

I don't believe it is an improvement but more of a simplification. The arm collar that comes with the Ekos SE/1 is much like the Ittok one you picture except for being black and no longer having any text printed on it. This same style of collar was used with the Basik LV-X and Plus too. The collar machined into the Keel is also more like these parts and less like the Akito/Arko ones. The collar in the video you linked is more like the one used with the Akito 2 and 3 arms. The differences are the silver color and the lack of the cutout for the cuing pod to fit into. Linn have finally redone the cueing/anti-skating platform which means that all 3 current Linn arms can fit a Keel. I consider this a great thing as people can upgrade in hierarchy order without having to do the Keel and an Ekos SE/1 upgrade at the same time, as was previously necessary.

Other interesting things from the video (I haven't had my hands on an Arko yet):
1) It comes with the Akito cable (original style grey T.Kable which I prefer to the newer one).
2) The counterweight appears similar to, but not the same as, the one on the Krane in shape, finish and decoupling rings.
3) The stud for the counterweight also appears much like the one on the Krane with grooves cut in the aluminum.

This counterweight/stub design is a departure from what was used on Ekos and Ittoks and also on what was used on Basiks and on Akitos. I would expect that the new decoupling setup and simplified weight (with no tracking force indicator piece) could give a musical advantage over the Akito counterweight.

Thanks Thomas for your comments, I wasn’t aware the collar was changed during the Akito lifecycle. Nice that all the Linn arms are now compatible with Keel.