XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

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ThomasOK
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by ThomasOK »

There is a saying that common sense isn't all that common. I'd say that the common way of doing things isn't always the best either. What is most important is what sounds best, although Fredrik's explanation why it works also makes sense to me.
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by Catweazle »

Nature wrote: 2022-02-11 02:16 Neutrik has an 3 pole female XLR to RCA adapter called NA2FPMF.
878-na2fpmf.jpg

If you use this Neutrik NA2FPMF adapter in combination with regular Linn Silver Interconnect, you will get exactly the same results as in this upper image under the heading XLR to RCA Connection Using Single Ended Cable.

XLR_to_RCA_Wiring.png

One can spend hours (have just done so) reading about this. My conclusion is that it seems most common to connect both pin 1 and 3 to ground.

Source of images and information:
https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/na2fpmf
https://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/ ... Wiring.png
There's also a male XLR to RCA variant available, but again pin 1+3 are connected. I had two of them in my grab box, and measured them.
Thus, if Fredrik is correct with the floating pin 3 ( and I have no doubt that he is) using this adaptor does not make sense. Interestingly, Neutrik also supplies XLR to RCA converters with a 1:1 transformer. http://www.neutrik.com/product/na2m-d2b-tx
Looks like the transformer is meant to decouple the devices and break ground loops?
The topic is getting more and more interesting.

Obviously doing a test, like Fredrik did, would be the best attempt. But with a KEB involved, I'd need 3 pairs of silvers in both configurations. Buying my own soldering station would be way cheaper, than a second set of cables. Relax, I don't intend to start a soldering career.🤦‍♂️
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by matthias »

I wouldn't consider the Neutrik transformers, just solder Linn Silver unbalanced with Neutrik XLRs and Neutrik RCAs according to Fredrik's recommendation, that's it.
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by Catweazle »

matthias wrote: 2022-02-12 11:55 I wouldn't consider the Neutrik transformers, just solder Linn Silver unbalanced with Neutrik XLRs and Neutrik RCAs according to Fredrik's recommendation, that's it.
That's my plan. With one slight but important variant: I'll have my dealer's technician do the soldering job. Maybe, we can do it in the shop, and audition the result together. My dealer is as curious as myself, and the common wisdom obviously has it, to connect 1+3. But hearing is believing!

Interestingly, Linn used to have (higly regarded) Lundahl output transformers in the original KEB, but dropped them in the latest version with Organik. I have no idea why. But after Linn dropped the Lundahl transformers, it does not appear like a good idea to replace them by Neutrik transformers.

Do we have any experience with the history of Linn unbalanced silvers? I'm presently using three pairs of early ones, with the old RCA plugs. I could either change one end to XLR, or start with new silver cable from the roll, and have new RCA / XLR connectors attached. The used factory made cables can always be sold second hand. What would you do?
Last edited by Catweazle on 2022-02-12 23:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by matthias »

Catweazle wrote: 2022-02-12 22:01 Do we have any experience with the history of Linn unbalanced silvers? I'm presently using three pairs of early ones, with the old RCA plugs. I could either change one end to XLR, or start with new silver cable from the roll, and have new RCA / XLR connectors attached. The used factory made cables can always be sold second hand. What would you do?
AFAIK, factory made Linn Silvers are superior to diy ones. So I would not touch them but do the XLRs to RCAs with new unbalanced Silver cable from the roll.
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by Catweazle »

matthias wrote: 2022-02-12 22:28 AFAIK, factory made Linn Silvers are superior to diy ones. So I would not touch them but do the XLRs to RCAs with new unbalanced Silver cable from the roll.
Hmmh, in this case one might as well conclude the opposite, i.e. that keeping the factory made RCA connections, and just replacing the XLR sided RCA plug on my used cable would lead to a more musical result, than a new cable with the allegedly 'inferior' solder jobs on both ends.

Turning a good cable into a lesser one might hurt, but if this still yields the best possible result for a XLR to RCA cable? Once I traded the Akurate Exaktbox, I don't have any use for the RCA to RCA cables anyway - until Linn comes with the next KEB upgrade, and replaces the XLRs by RCAs at least 🤔

More opinions from the community, please?
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by lejonklou »

If you have three early pairs of the unbalanced Linn interconnect, I consider it essential that you compare them with one another. One channel at a time, listen to and rank the six cables.

The reason is that you might find that one or two of them sound really awful and one or two are incredibly good. The early ones can be fantastic, but some loose the spark and go bad - I don't know why.

You need to know how they rank before you decide which ones to use for XLR conversion.
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by anthony »

Catweazle wrote: 2022-02-13 18:03
matthias wrote: 2022-02-12 22:28 AFAIK, factory made Linn Silvers are superior to diy ones. So I would not touch them but do the XLRs to RCAs with new unbalanced Silver cable from the roll.
Hmmh, in this case one might as well conclude the opposite, i.e. that keeping the factory made RCA connections, and just replacing the XLR sided RCA plug on my used cable would lead to a more musical result, than a new cable with the allegedly 'inferior' solder jobs on both ends.

Turning a good cable into a lesser one might hurt, but if this still yields the best possible result for a XLR to RCA cable? Once I traded the Akurate Exaktbox, I don't have any use for the RCA to RCA cables anyway - until Linn comes with the next KEB upgrade, and replaces the XLRs by RCAs at least 🤔

More opinions from the community, please?
Normally when ordering Klimax exakt they come with 10 meters of balanced cable and the dealer specifies what connectors are required.
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by Catweazle »

anthony wrote: 2022-02-14 06:17 Normally when ordering Klimax exakt they come with 10 meters of balanced cable and the dealer specifies what connectors are required.
Thx, anthony. I did not know this. Still, using an unbalanced cable appears to make more sense in this particular case, when pin 3 of the XLR output is left floating?
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by Catweazle »

lejonklou wrote: 2022-02-13 20:04 If you have three early pairs of the unbalanced Linn interconnect, I consider it essential that you compare them with one another. One channel at a time, listen to and rank the six cables.

The reason is that you might find that one or two of them sound really awful and one or two are incredibly good. The early ones can be fantastic, but some loose the spark and go bad - I don't know why.

You need to know how they rank before you decide which ones to use for XLR conversion.
Thx, that's an interesting hint.
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by Catweazle »

A quick status update, and a word of warning to those who followed this thread, or surface it later searching for advice:
Meanwhile, I'm enjoying my new Klimax Exaktbox Organik for a few weeks, using 3 pairs of Linn RCA silvers with XLR to RCA adapter, which my friendly dealer lent me for the time being.
I left my own 3 pairs of silvers with him, to have XLR connectors soldered at the source side, with the cold XLR pin unconnected, as suggested by Lejonklou.
Friday evening, I was sitting over dinner with friends, my dealer called me to report that my cables were done. He had just tried them with a Klimax Exaktbox (Katalyst), and Akurate amps and they produced HF noise. Meanwhile, he took his Organik Exaktbox to the store, and tried my cables again. Everything was fine, no noise at all. Obviously, the most significant difference between the two Exaktbox variants in the output section are transformer vs no transformers.
Conclusion so far - and I don't understand it as yet: The XLR with the floating pin does not work well with the Klimax Katalyst Exaktbox, or maybe sorces with output transformers in general. Before you order cables in such a configuration, try it out.
I plan to pick up my cables on Saturday, but I'll keep my dealer's cables until I confirmed the function.
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by Catweazle »

Catweazle wrote: 2022-03-30 19:31 I plan to pick up my cables on Saturday, but I'll keep my dealer's cables until I confirmed the function.
Meanwhile, I'm back from Kiel, and my "Frankenlinn" XLR to RCA cables are installed. Works like a charm in my system. No noise whatsoever. Very musical, Mission accomplished!
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Re: XLR to RCA cables or adaptors?

Post by Tendaberry »

That sounds great, enjoy!
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