I have been using a Klimax Renew DSM/E for some time now, and have been keeping an eye out during this time for a Full KDSM/2 if I happen to see one at the right price for me (which usually depends on level of wine consumption). However as time progresses, there are always going to be new innovations, and to save a lot of research online, much of which goes over my head, it had occurred to that there may be newer streamers out there that could also give me a quality boost (after listening of course) or something that like a new KDSM/2 were out of my price league when new.

Any suggestions to streamers I may consider and research? I don't use streaming services at the moment and all my music is stored on a QNAP NAS. I don't really want to increase my box count if possible, but would never rule it out completely for the right product.

Have you checked the for sale category lately?

Yes, I regularly take a look, and note that there is a silver one on, but my preference is black.

Peter Lanky wrote: ↑2021-10-17 21:44 Yes, I regularly take a look, and note that there is a silver one on, but my preference is black.

Did you consider Källa?

Matt

I have read everything on here about Källa and this is where my understanding fails, because I just can't work out what it does. It seems to me that the source files are held on some Apple device, which immediately gives me negative vibes (I despise everything to do with that company with a passion), rather than on my NAS, and I just can't get how it works.

Happy to be educated though, but it needs explaining inn easy steps for me.

Peter Lanky wrote: ↑2021-10-17 23:28 I have read everything on here about Källa and this is where my understanding fails, because I just can't work out what it does. It seems to me that the source files are held on some Apple device, which immediately gives me negative vibes (I despise everything to do with that company with a passion), rather than on my NAS, and I just can't get how it works.

Happy to be educated though, but it needs explaining inn easy steps for me.

You do need an Apple device, and you connect to Källa by selecting it as an AirPlay output for audio on the Apple device. Effectively you are telling the Apple device that Källa replaces the device loudspeaker.

On the Apple device you run any app that can play music, and Källa plays the music.

So, if you want to listen to Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, internet radio or files stored on your local NAS, you run the appropriate app on the Apple device (eg Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, Tunein etc respectively)

So any music for which an Apple App exists can be played on Källa

So why does it have to be Apple? This is the bit I don't get.

because it uses/understands the Apple Airplay protokoll for transfering
music

.......and Fredrik found this protocol the most musical sounding one.

Matt

Has anyone tried the BBC Sounds app? The ability to play the live streams and podcasts would be fantastic, and would be something the Linn streamers currently cannot do.

Taking into account that to go the Källa route, I would have to buy a unit, of which there are very few available at the moment, and also buy one or two Sagatuns, of which I have not seen a s/h one for ages, and a device from the 'rotten fruit' company, I don't think this is a viable option at this time.

So back to other alternatives.

Spannko wrote: ↑2021-10-18 08:36 Has anyone tried the BBC Sounds app? The ability to play the live streams and podcasts would be fantastic, and would be something the Linn streamers currently cannot do.

+1, Yes BBC Radio 3 Live classical music concerts ... that have to be ...

Peter Lanky wrote: ↑2021-10-18 08:52 Taking into account that to go the Källa route, I would have to buy a unit, of which there are very few available at the moment, and also buy one or two Sagatuns, of which I have not seen a s/h one for ages, and a device from the 'rotten fruit' company, I don't think this is a viable option at this time.

So back to other alternatives.

If one input is enough you could buy a Giella Pi as preamp, according to Fredrik more musical than Sagatun stereo....
From the reports here I do not think that there are better sounding alternatives to Källa.

Matt

Peter Lanky wrote: ↑2021-10-18 08:52 Taking into account that to go the Källa route, I would have to buy a unit, of which there are very few available at the moment, and also buy one or two Sagatuns, of which I have not seen a s/h one for ages, and a device from the 'rotten fruit' company, I don't think this is a viable option at this time.

So back to other alternatives.

Any reason why DSM rather than DS? You don't mention whether you use the balanced, spdif, hdmi, or toslink inputs to know if these are requirements in any replacement of your KRDSM/E / alternatives to KDSM/2... Some alternatives may come up as others buy a Källa and look to sell on their streamers, but understand you've dismissed the silver units currently offered in favour of a black unit coming available. Maybe chat with macrotech2 on his experiences with KDS and Vitus?

I prefer the DSM over the DS mainly for the convenience of having a single box. If I increase my box count, then I would need to get a different rack and add to the cost. At present I use the KRDSM/E as the only source, using unbalanced Linn Silver cables, and I am not likely to ever have further sources. I asked for opinions about using a DS straight into the power amps and the almost unanimous decision was not to do this.

So it's KDSM or some kind of DS + preamp, which Linn no longer does, and Sagatun is difficult to find s/h. I cannot justify the new cost of any of these items.

Peter Lanky wrote: ↑2021-10-18 13:52 I prefer the DSM over the DS mainly for the convenience of having a single box. If I increase my box count, then I would need to get a different rack and add to the cost. At present I use the KRDSM/E as the only source, using unbalanced Linn Silver cables, and I am not likely to ever have further sources. I asked for opinions about using a DS straight into the power amps and the almost unanimous decision was not to do this.

So it's KDSM or some kind of DS + preamp, which Linn no longer does, and Sagatun is difficult to find s/h. I cannot justify the new cost of any of these items.

Makes sense: keeping box count (& cost) down is understandable...
Maybe my misunderstanding, but I thought DSMs were digital volume control (DVC) so no different effectively to using a DS w/out a preamp. If I'm wrong on the DSM DVC then I stand corrected, but that would limit your alternatives - not aware of any (other?) streamers with analogue volume control.
I'll have to defer to those that know more on the effective difference between DSM & DS or other streamers in your setup - I hope you find what you're looking for.

yes thats also my information - if you only use the streaming part of it as source its the same DS=DSM both have digital volume control.
Difference is if you use an additional analogue source - than its first converted from analogue to digital (AD conversion) and than goes through the DVC but main volume control is DVC.

Having taken in the comments here, I contacted Linn who confirmed that with my set up, I only require a KDS and not a KDSM, so I have posted a request for a KDS/3 in black on the wanted board. However, the request for alternatives has not changed from where we left off.

The DS has better performance than the DSM. I’m a DSM user as I have an LP12 but in fairness the DS is better as heard back to back at Linn HQ.

Whatever you do please ensure you have the Katalyst version I.e DS/3 or DSM/2. The DVC on this is astonishingly good

Happy hunting.

Ianw,

As far as I’m aware, Linn will be bringing out an Organik upgrade for the DS’s. I’m guessing this will be about £6k. If you intend upgrading in the future, and you get a DS/3 now, the total cost is going to be about £14k. By then, you might be able to get a used DSM/3 for a similar price. Also, have you thought about buying an older DS for considerably less than a DS/3, with a view to upgrading to Organik when they become available?

From what I have read, if there is an Organik upgrade for old style DS units, that it will be quite some time off.

In addition to a KDS/3 I will also be considering older models for upgrade to Katalyst, which I believe costs £3850, though having seen that 2 KDS/3 units sold on Ebay last month for around £5K, (one of which I would have bought had I known what I know today), then that is my target, and an older DS would have to be cheap enough to take that into account.

You’re right on two counts! The Organik upgrade could be a couple of years away, and the last time I checked DS/3 prices they were going for about £7.5 to £8k. Everything seems to have dropped in price just recently. People are almost giving their Klimax’s away!

Defender wrote: ↑2021-10-18 08:21 because it uses/understands the Apple Airplay protokoll for transfering
music

Just a little correction here. The Källa uses the Lejonklou Protokoll for streaming, it does not use AirPlay. But it does look to an Apple device like any other wireless speaker or device that would work with AirPlay. The Lejonklou Protokoll design and the amount of work put into it by the programmer are a bit part of why the Källa sounds so musical. It is simply the most musical way the Lejonklou team found to transfer digital files to the streamer.

So you do need an Apple device, an iPhone 11 is the recommendation for the best perfromance. I would just consider it as the needed remote control for Källa which isn't a big cost at $500 compared to the Källa itself. You don't have to use it for anything else if you don't want to and don't even need to have a cell service for it. I believe there may even be a way to have the iPhone/iPad sit on a table somewhere feeding the Källa and use another device to control the Apple device, but that is beyond my skills to either do or explain.

Other than that, a Klimax DS is indeed more musical than a KDSM of the same specification and would definitely be all that is needed if you wanted to go that way.

ThomasOK wrote: ↑2021-10-19 18:54 Just a little correction here. The Källa uses the Lejonklou Protokoll for streaming, it does not use AirPlay.

I would love if someone could explain exactly what this means.

If the Apple device uses Airplay to talk to Källa, in what way does Källa not use Airplay?

teatime wrote: ↑2021-10-20 01:10 If the Apple device uses Airplay to talk to Källa, in what way does Källa not use Airplay?

What I can imagine is that the CP is sending AP but the reception in Källa is not typical AP. Something of a stripped down and in all parameters for musicality optimized AP with no volume control.

Matt