Turntables

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snatex
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Turntables

Post by snatex »

I know that the LP12 is king around these parts and I am a big fan as well, but I am very curious if anyone has tested the LP12 against a VPI, Thorens, Technics, SME, Rega, Kuzma, Feickert or any other potential competitors. Please share any experiences and listening comparisons. Thanks.
LP12 / Entity / Sagatun Monos / Tundra Monos / Harbeth M30.1 / Rythmik E22's
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Re: Turntables

Post by sktn77a »

I replaced My Thorens TD125/SME3009 with an LP12/Ittok. Long time ago, though so I'm not sure the comparison would be relevant today.
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Re: Turntables

Post by Charlie1 »

I home-dem'd a P10 for a few days (with stock Rega MC). I liked it and It did some HiFi stuff better than my vintage LP12s but it didn't communicate the music as well - at least not for my ear / brain mechanism :) This was in a vintage Naim setup but it still sounded nicely balanced, unlike the Karousel-fitted Majik LP12 I had for a few weeks.

I'm curious to hear Vertere and the new Naim deck but not confident I'd prefer them.

Ultimately, I think you need to try stuff yourself, ideally at home.
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John
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Re: Turntables

Post by John »

I compared my Technics SL-1200 mk2 to my Rega 2 of the same vintage and found the Rega more musical. I made recordings of the two and posted them on the Steve Hoffman forum a few years ago using the same Linn Klyde on each of them.
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Re: Turntables

Post by lindsayt »

I replaced my LP12 with Cirkus, Lingo 2, late Ittok, Troika with an EMT 930 and then also an EMT 950.

The EMT's sound like grown-up versions of my LP12.
Since I bought the EMT's the price of them - in general has gone up a lot from the £1900 & £2250 I paid for mine.

There are a number of other non-linn vinyl sources that I've heard that I'd rate as being in the same league as my EMT's and therefore a cut above the Linn that I had.
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Re: Turntables

Post by Catweazle »

I won't mention anything prior to my Thorens 126 with SME 3009 Series III arm here, which still revolves at a friend of mine whom I handed it down.
It was followed by a new Phonosophie P3 with Aro arm in 1991, which I traded after a few years for a used LP12 with Cirkus, Lingo, Ekos, and Troika. That was Linn's top of the line in those days.
While the P3 did shine with some records, and disappoint with others, the LP12 is a reliable companion with a much more consistent musical performance. Less effects, more sense.
Since then, mid 90ies, I have been upgrading my LP 12 now and then, which always improved musicality a bit more. No plans to go for any other turntable. I'm still ~ 15k€ away from the top, and it looks like the distance is rather growing than shrinking over time. So why worry ;-)
Happy listening, everyone!
PC or LP12-Krsel-KRad/1-Keel-Ekos SE/1-Akiva-Urika II | KRDSM | KEB/2 | C6100/D | AV5140/038
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Tony Tune-age
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Re: Turntables

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Catweazle wrote: 2021-12-02 21:54 Since then, I have been upgrading my LP 12 now and then, which always improved musicality a bit more. No plans to go for any other turntable. I'm still ~ 15k€ away from the top, and it looks like the distance is rather growing than shrinking over time. So why worry ;-)
Happy listening, everyone!
Although there are other decent sounding turntables, I haven't found any that can be upgraded like the SondekLP12. For me it's been interesting and fun upgrading to what ever level I choose, without having to get a completely different turntable. I have seen people go through more than one VPI turntable (and others), before finding a deck that satisfied them. And even then, they aren't always happy.

By the way, I was recently informed that Linn plans to create more upgrades for the SondekLP12. Although there was no mention of a timeline or schedule.
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Re: Turntables

Post by Discodave »

Ive always been fascinated by Well Tempered TTs, Versalex, etc but never had the opportunity to listen. I would love to compare to my LP12.

When the latest Regas came out I was also tempted to compare and contrast but after chatting with TO'K and my own dealer I stopped entertaining the idea.

As my dealer said, in his opinion, the thing that makes the LP12 unbeatable is the fundemental bearing system. Always has been.
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
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Re: Turntables

Post by Azazello »

Just get a Källa and stop thinking about it. 😆
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Re: Turntables

Post by Discodave »

Ha! If only funds could stretch!!
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
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Tony Tune-age
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Re: Turntables

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Discodave wrote: 2021-12-04 10:54 Ive always been fascinated by Well Tempered TTs, Versalex, etc but never had the opportunity to listen. I would love to compare to my LP12.

When the latest Regas came out I was also tempted to compare and contrast but after chatting with TO'K and my own dealer I stopped entertaining the idea.

As my dealer said, in his opinion, the thing that makes the LP12 unbeatable is the fundamental bearing system. Always has been.
That make sense to me, it is the heart and soul of the of the LP12. And as turntables go, it's my favorite.
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Re: Turntables

Post by Mr Pig »

I had a Rega RP10 for two years. After thirty years of LP12 ownership I fancied buying an end-game turntable and all the reviews of the RP10 suggested it performed well above its price point and was a very musical turntable. At first I was impressed with the levels of clarity, neutrality, low noise and great speed stability. The tonality and involvement were not right but I assumed it would just need a bit of tweaking and a suitable cartridge. I was wrong.

I tried lots of different cartridges. moving magnet and moving coil, many of which had worked happily on the LP12. I tried different supports, different mats, I even put up a wall shelf for it but nope. That is just what the deck sounds like.

It has what I would call a 'cold' sound. The tonality is wrong. The LP12 makes voices sound like real people, instruments sound like real instruments. The Rega makes them sound thin and lacking in weight and body. It also does not convey subtleties in timing like the LP12 does. The macro timing is fine but the little timing accents that make music magical are blurred over. I remembered how the LP12 made me feel. How many things I'd played on the LP12 and loved. The Rega didn't make you love anything. It was technically good but emotionally stone cold.

So it was sold and I built up another LP12 about six months ago, this one will be staying! It has a better sub-chassis and arm than my last one and it beats the RP10 in every way. The LP12 is a fundamentally better record player. It might not be perfect but on song it can connect you with the music in away that few sources can and that's all I want.

What beats me is that I have a Rega Saturn-R CD player and it is really good! It has a more analogue sound than the RP10!!
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Tony Tune-age
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Re: Turntables

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Rega RP-10 turntable. I've heard a few people say the RP-10 sound doesn't get them involved with the music. I haven't heard the RP-10, only the lower cost Rega turntables.

Congratulations on your recent LP12, and enjoy the music!
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Re: Turntables

Post by Arjen »

Talking about turntables, am I a strange duck in the pond as I am probably the only one in this forum playing a vintage Lenco (refurbished, new plinth, new tonearm cable 76/S, Nagaoka MP300j, Slipsik). Very happy with it, very natural and musical, never felt the need of comparing it with Linn LP 12 or any Rega.
Lenco 76/S TJN, Dr. Fuss, Supernait2, CD5X, Slipsik7.1, Millon Phantom, Soundeck, AudioSensibility
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Re: Turntables

Post by Mr Pig »

Arjen wrote: 2021-12-24 01:03Talking about turntables, am I a strange duck in the pond as I am probably the only one in this forum playing a vintage Lenco
Very good turntable. I had an L75 is it? Can't remember the number now. I did a bit to it, replaced the liners and thrust pad in the bearing etc, and even with the stock arm it sounded good. It clearly had the potential to be extremely good but I couldn't be bothered dealing with it.

But yeah, a well sorted Lenco is a good thing. If you're happy with it do not look at anything else, that's when problems start. All turntables are compromised and even good ones have their weaknesses and strengths relative to each other. Ignorance is bliss! Enjoy what you have.
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Re: Turntables

Post by Discodave »

I concur with the above. When talking about top tier TTs, I have only ever owned my 1978 LP12. Yes, I have upgraded it over the years. But unless someone was willing to loan me a comparable TT for a long period of time I don't see the point. I am happy.

However, I would love to hear your Lenco in my system for experience sakes.
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
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Re: Turntables

Post by Mr Pig »

Tony Tune-age wrote: 2021-12-23 23:02 I haven't heard the RP-10, only the lower cost Rega turntables.
The cheaper Regas are fine, I have a Planar 3 and 2 and the P1 is a fantastic turntable. Nothing like the RP10 it has a warm, full, bouncy sound that's very engaging. It's also very forgiving of vinyl quality and get music out of any record. I'd rather listen to a P1 than an RP10, I'm not kidding.

The two issues with the top Regas are the plastic plinth and the ceramic platter. They suck all of the body out of the music in the quest for detail retrieval.
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Re: Turntables

Post by lindsayt »

Arjen wrote: 2021-12-24 01:03 Talking about turntables, am I a strange duck in the pond as I am probably the only one in this forum playing a vintage Lenco (refurbished, new plinth, new tonearm cable 76/S, Nagaoka MP300j, Slipsik). Very happy with it, very natural and musical, never felt the need of comparing it with Linn LP 12 or any Rega.
A well fettled Lenco is a top class turntable.

There might be scope to get even more out of yours with different arm / cartridge - although probably at a price.
With your existing set-up, you'll be getting grin inducing performance for the money spent on it.
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Tony Tune-age
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Re: Turntables

Post by Tony Tune-age »

lindsayt wrote: 2021-12-24 20:50
Arjen wrote: 2021-12-24 01:03 Talking about turntables, am I a strange duck in the pond as I am probably the only one in this forum playing a vintage Lenco (refurbished, new plinth, new tonearm cable 76/S, Nagaoka MP300j, Slipsik). Very happy with it, very natural and musical, never felt the need of comparing it with Linn LP 12 or any Rega.
A well fettled Lenco is a top class turntable.

There might be scope to get even more out of yours with different arm / cartridge - although probably at a price.
With your existing set-up, you'll be getting grin inducing performance for the money spent on it.
+1
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Re: Turntables

Post by Arjen »

In spent again some little more money on my Lenco. New Idler wheel (by Audio Creative), new home made bearing and Jean Nantais TJN mod (tjn-analog.com) for more torque stability, refurbishing and stabilizing the vintage Jelco arm, some more bitumen damping (see TroelsGravesen.dk).Result: perfect timing, more sound and detail, more dynamics, bass power, control. With its massive motor this only little upgraded Idler-wheel-drive Lenco delivers my vinyl very, very musically for the money spent on it.
Lenco 76/S TJN, Dr. Fuss, Supernait2, CD5X, Slipsik7.1, Millon Phantom, Soundeck, AudioSensibility
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Re: Turntables

Post by Tendaberry »

Arjen wrote: 2022-10-26 22:19 In spent again some little more money on my Lenco. With its massive motor this only little upgraded Idler-wheel-drive Lenco delivers my vinyl very, very musically for the money spent on it.
How much have you spent by now then?
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Re: Turntables

Post by Arjen »

Tendaberry wrote: 2022-10-27 15:33
Arjen wrote: 2022-10-26 22:19 In spent again some little more money on my Lenco. With its massive motor this only little upgraded Idler-wheel-drive Lenco delivers my vinyl very, very musically for the money spent on it.
How much have you spent by now then?
Apart from the Nagaoka cartridge (MP 300 350 Euro new stylus JNP 500 415 Euro), the rebuilt Lenco 76/S 400 Euro and the last upgrade (new Idler wheel, spindle housing and bearing, TNJ mod and revision of tonearm and bearing 220 Euros, so the whole investment on the TT itsef 620 Euro. Cartridge/stylus has been a bigger investment. Soundeck footers ca. 50 £, Soundeck puck 70 £ Soundeck plattermat 35 £. Over the years Ca. 1600 E altogether for the whole superior unrivaled idler wheel TT setup, only the price of a Planar 3, only 1/3 of the just basic LP12 Majik. On top of this the finish with Superbe musical Slipsik 7.1 connected with a Audio Sensibility phonocables.
Lenco 76/S TJN, Dr. Fuss, Supernait2, CD5X, Slipsik7.1, Millon Phantom, Soundeck, AudioSensibility
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Re: Turntables

Post by sktn77a »

The GL75 was a very good turntable . The early ones tended to rumble but this was a combination of the idler drive and the arm. With a high compliance cartridge, the resonance of the arm/cartridge combo could be brought down below the audible range (but then it was in the footfall range). Current aftermarket modifications to the bearing and idler have cured this for the most part. The folks over at LencoHeaven swoon over this 'table (of course)!
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Re: Turntables

Post by Arjen »

sktn77a wrote: 2022-11-04 01:26 The GL75 was a very good turntable . The early ones tended to rumble but this was a combination of the idler drive and the arm. With a high compliance cartridge, the resonance of the arm/cartridge combo could be brought down below the audible range (but then it was in the footfall range). Current aftermarket modifications to the bearing and idler have cured this for the most part. The folks over at LencoHeaven swoon over this 'table (of course)!
More solid, spindle and platter more stable, speed better controlled, no rumble although it wasn’t almost there. If money is no issue, and you play LInn Sondek LP 12a a karousel upgrade for a Linn is available for over 1000 E, this very effective DIY bearing upgrade for my Lenco 76S is really a bargain, comparing a Karousel upgrade. And nothing beats an well upgraded idler wheel TT IMO and in opinions of many.
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Re: Turntables

Post by Arjen »

snatex wrote: 2021-09-17 16:31 I know that the LP12 is king around these parts and I am a big fan as well, but I am very curious if anyone has tested the LP12 against a VPI, Thorens, Technics, SME, Rega, Kuzma, Feickert or any other potential competitors. Please share any experiences and listening comparisons. Thanks.
It seems there is some (probably doubtful, definitely incomplete and surely biased) answer in a new thread which discussing Harley Lovegrove 10 iconic turntables, tableturning out in a battle between LP12 and Planar 10.
Lenco 76/S TJN, Dr. Fuss, Supernait2, CD5X, Slipsik7.1, Millon Phantom, Soundeck, AudioSensibility
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