JBL 308P and 708P

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matthias
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JBL 308P and 708P

Post by matthias »

Topic split from the "Four Years in the Making" thread in the Källa forum.

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lejonklou wrote: 2021-09-03 11:12 Källa, Kikkin and JBL 708P on Linn Kan stands
A killer system certainly even more with Giella Pi.
Do the JBL 708P convert all analog to digital for DSP purposes?

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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Defender »

matthias wrote: 2021-09-04 10:25
lejonklou wrote: 2021-09-03 11:12 Källa, Kikkin and JBL 708P on Linn Kan stands
A killer system certainly even more with Giella Pi.
Do the JBL 708P convert all analog to digital for DSP purposes?

Matt
the way I understand it yes it seems all is converted to digital
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by matthias »

Defender wrote: 2021-09-04 12:57 the way I understand it yes it seems all is converted to digital
Then with Källa we have DAC-ADC-DAC in the chain...

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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by tokenbrit »

matthias wrote: 2021-09-04 16:34
Defender wrote: 2021-09-04 12:57 the way I understand it yes it seems all is converted to digital
Then with Källa we have DAC-ADC-DAC in the chain...

Matt
708P have an analogue input. Is it possible that the DSP can be off / disabled ?!? Does seem like an unusual choice, after Källa & AVC, if not.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by matthias »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-09-04 17:07 708P have an analogue input, I believe. Maybe the DSP isn't used here... ?!?
That is the question, but if they use a digital XO then they must use an ADC...
Maybe Fredrik or jajo knows exactly...

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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by ThomasOK »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-09-04 17:07
matthias wrote: 2021-09-04 16:34
Defender wrote: 2021-09-04 12:57 the way I understand it yes it seems all is converted to digital
Then with Källa we have DAC-ADC-DAC in the chain...

Matt
708P have an analogue input. Is it possible that the DSP can be off / disabled ?!? Does seem like an unusual choice, after Källa & AVC, if not.
It is all converted to digital internally through a built in 24/192 ADC (unless you use the AES digital input for direct digital). The crossovers and the amps are also digital (250W each to the woofer and tweeter) and it has various types of room correction and EQ available. The JBL 308 mk1 that Fredrik is currently using in his home system works basically the same way but with 56W of Class D amplification each for the woofer and the tweeter and without all the fancy room correction and EQ stuff and no direct digital input (among other differences that account for the roughly four times difference in price.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by V.A.MKD »

Hm,

Interesting ... musicality from JBL Pro Series, Cinema (passive mod) and Rec & Broad Products (active mod).

It will be interesting to hear if some body have experience with passive models from Rec & Broad Products and Synthesis Products (domestic and studio monitors) ...
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by matthias »

Fredrik,
In the context of these newer JBL speakers which convert analog to digital would it makes sense to offer Kaella with a pure digital output like AES for example?
Thanks

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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote: 2021-09-05 11:18In the context of these newer JBL speakers which convert analog to digital would it makes sense to offer Kaella with a pure digital output like AES for example?
No, I don't see any sense in that. I think it would sound a lot worse.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Azazello »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-09-03 11:12 Källa, Kikkin and JBL 708P on Linn Kan stands
Would you care to elaborate on the performance of the JBL 708P?

Creating a new post to avoid OT in the Källa-thread. :)
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Whatsmynaim »

I'm shocked you guys all of a sudden are accepting digital crossover filters now. This maybe shows Linn wasn't on the wrong path after all ;) A question. Can we use this awesome Källa to be used for the sound for streamed movies when watching TV or playing games? It sure would be a nice bonus feature.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by lejonklou »

Well, if it's fun listening to, then it's good. If it's no fun listening to, then it's not good.

I've had good experiences with analog-to-digital-to-analog conversions when they're done in a closed and compact environment. If one can choose the amount of digital processing, it's usually best with as little as possible. And when the digital stream travels between units and involves several clocks, the musical quality usually drops like a stone (and often it sounds artificial as well). Analogue signals are much less fragile to move around, in my experience.

If your iOS or MacOS device streams a film, you can route the sound through Källa. Not sure about games - latency is likely to ruin the experience.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by markiteight »

Azazello wrote: 2021-09-05 14:21
lejonklou wrote: 2021-09-03 11:12 Källa, Kikkin and JBL 708P on Linn Kan stands
Would you care to elaborate on the performance of the JBL 708P?

Creating a new post to avoid OT in the Källa-thread. :)
Thank you, Azazello. You beat me to it! Posts from the Källa thread have been moved here but apologies for the wonky post order. phpBB sorts posts in chronological order which doesn't always make the most sense when posts are merged.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you for the housekeeping markiteight!
Azazello wrote: 2021-09-05 14:21
lejonklou wrote: 2021-09-03 11:12 Källa, Kikkin and JBL 708P on Linn Kan stands
Would you care to elaborate on the performance of the JBL 708P?
It's a really good speaker.

I have the original 308 at home and the 708P is similar in size. 708P sounds much cleaner across the entire frequency range and also across the entire volume range (very low volume sounds surprisingly similar to very high volume). They have more the character of a monitor than 308, meaning that they're precise and dry.

I'm not sure how much more musical they are than 308, as I haven't compared them enough. But I think it's safe to say that they're better. I might try them at home some day soon.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Azazello »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-09-05 22:15 Thank you for the housekeeping markiteight!
Azazello wrote: 2021-09-05 14:21
lejonklou wrote: 2021-09-03 11:12 Källa, Kikkin and JBL 708P on Linn Kan stands
Would you care to elaborate on the performance of the JBL 708P?
It's a really good speaker.

I have the original 308 at home and the 708P is similar in size. 708P sounds much cleaner across the entire frequency range and also across the entire volume range (very low volume sounds surprisingly similar to very high volume). They have more the character of a monitor than 308, meaning that they're precise and dry.

I'm not sure how much more musical they are than 308, as I haven't compared them enough. But I think it's safe to say that they're better. I might try them at home some day soon.
And compared to tundra/3677..?
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by lejonklou »

Azazello wrote: 2021-09-05 22:52 And compared to tundra/3677..?
It was too long ago that I listened to 3677, so it's hard to say. It may also depend on the room, as I found 3677 sounding fantastic in some rooms, but annoying in others.

708P and 3677 are very different speakers, that's for sure.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by jajo »

As an owner of 708P, here are my thoughts.

I previously used the 308 which is a fantastic speaker especially considering the price. Before 308 I had 3677+Tundra (but in a different room). I agree with Fredrik that 3677 require the right room to shine. Mine was pretty big with acoustic treatment (home cinema) and it worked great with awesome musicality and dynamics. However 3677 is tuned for dialogue reproduction and can sometimes be a little harsh in the midrange, especially in smaller rooms.

I switched to 308 because I moved to an apartment and had no space for 3677. 308 really performs great in areas that matter the most - musicality and smooth sound without harshness. They do have some flaws, primarily being a little underpowered when playing loud.

I upgraded to 708P since I wanted deeper bass response and more dynamics. They are cerainly closer to 3677 in terms of power but still very different in the way they sound. They are more suitable in normal rooms than 3677 and the frequency range is wider. Ear fatigue is almost non-existant and I can listen for many hours without discomfort which is important for me. 708P is a lot more musical than 308 when playing on low volume or really loud. In the normal volume range the difference is smaller but still clearly better in my opinion. Bass goes much deeper and has wonderful tunefulness. Like Fredrik said they are quite ”dry” sounding and you hear everything - I like this sound character and it makes them a fantastic tool for tuning other equipment or music production. Dynamics are wild - movies with these speakers really come to life.

Are they 10 times better than 308 (they are 10 times more expensive)? Probably no. 308 is better value for money, especially when you consider them strictly for their musicality and tunefulness. However 708P is a lot more fun and I play music/radio with them much more frequently than I did with 308. I would highly recommend a listen. No doubt the best speakers I’ve heard and a great performer when paired with the best sources.

Negatives would be that they are not looking like a 4000 EUR speaker set - very PRO-looking without the finish you get if you buy consumer speakers at this price level.

Also they do have class D amplification so you will not get a true analogue system even if you feed them with an analogue signal. But I really don’t care since they perform at such a high level.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by V.A.MKD »

Thank you jajo,
Perfect picture of actual issues on the forum ...
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by V.A.MKD »

jajo wrote: 2021-09-06 00:15 Negatives would be that they are not looking like a 4000 EUR speaker set - very PRO-looking without the finish you get if you buy consumer speakers at this price level.
Or positive ...

Money go to "sound" not to "outside look" ...

As was case with 3677 ...
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by V.A.MKD »

markiteight wrote: 2021-09-05 22:00
Azazello wrote: 2021-09-05 14:21
lejonklou wrote: 2021-09-03 11:12 Källa, Kikkin and JBL 708P on Linn Kan stands
Would you care to elaborate on the performance of the JBL 708P?

Creating a new post to avoid OT in the Källa-thread. :)
Thank you, Azazello. You beat me to it! Posts from the Källa thread have been moved here but apologies for the wonky post order. phpBB sorts posts in chronological order which doesn't always make the most sense when posts are merged.
Perfect move ...
Just "name", have to be something with Active speakers ...
Just a suggestion ...
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by matthias »

jajo wrote: 2021-09-06 00:15 As an owner of 708P, here are my thoughts.

I previously used the 308 which is a fantastic speaker especially considering the price. Before 308 I had 3677+Tundra (but in a different room). I agree with Fredrik that 3677 require the right room to shine. Mine was pretty big with acoustic treatment (home cinema) and it worked great with awesome musicality and dynamics. However 3677 is tuned for dialogue reproduction and can sometimes be a little harsh in the midrange, especially in smaller rooms.

I switched to 308 because I moved to an apartment and had no space for 3677. 308 really performs great in areas that matter the most - musicality and smooth sound without harshness. They do have some flaws, primarily being a little underpowered when playing loud.

I upgraded to 708P since I wanted deeper bass response and more dynamics. They are cerainly closer to 3677 in terms of power but still very different in the way they sound. They are more suitable in normal rooms than 3677 and the frequency range is wider. Ear fatigue is almost non-existant and I can listen for many hours without discomfort which is important for me. 708P is a lot more musical than 308 when playing on low volume or really loud. In the normal volume range the difference is smaller but still clearly better in my opinion. Bass goes much deeper and has wonderful tunefulness. Like Fredrik said they are quite ”dry” sounding and you hear everything - I like this sound character and it makes them a fantastic tool for tuning other equipment or music production. Dynamics are wild - movies with these speakers really come to life.

Are they 10 times better than 308 (they are 10 times more expensive)? Probably no. 308 is better value for money, especially when you consider them strictly for their musicality and tunefulness. However 708P is a lot more fun and I play music/radio with them much more frequently than I did with 308. I would highly recommend a listen. No doubt the best speakers I’ve heard and a great performer when paired with the best sources.

Negatives would be that they are not looking like a 4000 EUR speaker set - very PRO-looking without the finish you get if you buy consumer speakers at this price level.

Also they do have class D amplification so you will not get a true analogue system even if you feed them with an analogue signal. But I really don’t care since they perform at such a high level.
Thanks Jacob,

did you or someone else compare these to the passive ones, the JBL 708i?

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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by jajo »

matthias wrote: 2021-09-06 09:56 Thanks Jacob,

did you or someone else compare these to the passive ones, the JBL 708i?

Matt
708i isn't really your typical passive speaker. Think of it as a 708p but with the amps outside of the speaker rather than inside. It is constructed to be used with the Crown rack-mountable amplifiers with DSP and a specific EQ curve designed by JBL. Wiring it to a regular amp, like a Tundra, would probably not have good result because of the non-flat frequency response without corrections in the amp.

For that reason, I never tested the 708i.
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by matthias »

jajo wrote: 2021-09-06 11:41 708i isn't really your typical passive speaker. Think of it as a 708p but with the amps outside of the speaker rather than inside. It is constructed to be used with the Crown rack-mountable amplifiers with DSP and a specific EQ curve designed by JBL. Wiring it to a regular amp, like a Tundra, would probably not have good result because of the non-flat frequency response without corrections in the amp.

For that reason, I never tested the 708i.
Thanks,
I did not know that.

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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by lejonklou »

The 708i also contains a simple passive filter and has really lousy connection terminals.

The combination of both a passive filter and DSP in the amps made it very unappealing to me. Otherwise I would have tested them aktiv with Tundra and analogue filtering (most of the corrections in the DSP are likely unnecessary, as JBL aims for a perfectly flat frequency response using many small corrections).
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Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by u252agz »

Am I missing something here.

A pair of JBL 308s with stands for less than 500 euros - and that includes built in amplication.

And all sounding very musical?
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

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