JBL 308P and 708P

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

Moderator: Staff

User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 616
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Hermann »

ThomasOK wrote: 2023-02-28 20:29 I'm liking Hermann's clips with both the 305 and 308. The 308 is definitely better but the 305 are quite good too. Having had both at home I find the differences the same as what I've heard at home. Hermann, one would think you worked in a Hi-Fi store, Gone by Laith Al-Saadi and Tin Pan Alley by SRV are both popular demo tracks and were quite enjoyable. Of course I'm not sure Gone is used as much elsewhere as Laith is a local musician who I have seen live in local small venues. So we have some bias there. I was very unhappy when Tin Pan Alley stopped playing on the 308 clip!

Thanks Tom. I heard Gone by Laith Al-Saadi for the first time at this place. And if I remember correctly, it was you who played the song a long time ago. It's been in my playlist since I started using Spotify.

In fact, I used to work indirectly for a hifi store. Not as an employee, but as an agent. At the time I had a tape recorder, the Technics RS1506, and found the tapes quite expensive. So I brought in customers and with every piece of hi-fi sold I got a big TDK reel, which cost over 50 DM at the time. After a few months I had "worked out" over 60 pieces. And yes, I was offered a job, which I declined with thanks.
Trust your ears
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

Lego wrote: 2023-02-28 14:25 In the first set ,there was better intelligibility with the 308s but the guitar playing felt less integrated with the singer compared to the K.
I hear the same.
Spannko wrote: 2023-02-28 16:32 This is the first time I’ve heard 104’s, and I really like them! I preferred them to the 308’s on the direct comparison. However, I preferred the 308 combo when compared to the Tukan combo.

I think I hear what you’re describing charlie1. The 104 combo has a natural musicality, whereas the 308’s just sound inoffensive (particularly when compared to the Tukan’s) The 104’s drew me in, but the 308’s didn’t, for some reason. Maybe they need a better pre-amp and interconnects to really shine, as others are suggesting.
Yeah, the 104s are very good if you don't need bass.
Defender wrote: 2023-02-28 16:31 here are my measures:
my JBLs ended up 60.3cm above the floor with the stands I am using. The other stands got them too high and they did sound a little boring when placed on the higher stands. Room hight is 251.7cm just for comparison.
Distance from the back wall is 10.95cm and musicality of the JBLs seem to be very sensitive to that distance in my room.
Speaker to speaker distance is 170.8cm which seems wide (inner sides of the cabinet) [8] ——> [8]
Room is 412cm by 720cm I am sitting round about 420cm away from the loudspeakers so the loudspeakers are set up at the small side (at the 412cm wide wall) of the room.
I got my cables done from Thomas and the money was well spend before I used Linn Blacks with RCA to XLR Adapters and that was eating up a lot of the JBLs capabilities.
Thanks Defender! My room is 2.35m high so a little shorter than yours. The tweeters are 146cm apart and speakers 120cm part. I will try further apart again - perhaps there is a better spot quite a lot further apart. I'm happy with the distance to rear wall though.

I played 'Rainbows' this evening whilst doing bits and bobs. Like many modern recordings, it's never really suited by vintage systems, and it was very enjoyable with the JBLs - totally different (better) sound that was also enjoyable along with the music. Definitely worth perusing even if I do hear things I prefer in analogue passive speakers.
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by ThomasOK »

Charlie1 wrote: 2023-02-28 13:28 A couple of comparisons to budget Linn speakers.

1. VM95E/Slipsik/Wakonda/LK140/K104: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0g5mxyqn8aieu ... 6.mp4?dl=0
2. VM95E/Slipsik/Wakonda/308P: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6khqov766s0b ... 9.mp4?dl=0

This one is not as comparable cos the pre-amp is different, so I guess they're best thought of as separate systems.

1. VM95E/Slipsik/2016 Majik-i/Tukan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/avn36zn5geklw ... 4.mp4?dl=0
2. VM95E/Slipsik/Wakonda/308P: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vs3slb6yyu0dq ... 2.mp4?dl=0

Bear in mind these tracks were picked and originally recorded cos I thought they sounded good with the Linn speaker at that time. Whereas, the JBLs don't really shine or sound poor with anything.

I think as things stand, the JBLs are a great tool, but all-analogue leaves my mind slightly more at ease somehow, not dissimilar to Exakt. There's a very slight sigh of relief but I could happily live with these and may in fact do so. My gut feeling is that this is an inherent quality and got gonna change with a better cable but I'll see how much it would cost to get one made up. But at the end of the day, their all-round ability with anything you throw at them cannot be easily dismissed. Certainly not put off trying 212s though - as hopefully a bassier version of K104s.
The first pair was the tough one. I liked some of what the 104s did and some of what the 308s did. I went back and forth a few times and found that I eased into the music a bit more with the 308s. Both were quite good. On the second set I just preferred the 308s over the Tukans. They seemed overall musically better.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Tom
jewa
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 89
Joined: 2007-01-31 18:57

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by jewa »

I don't think the 308 plays rhythm very well. Perhaps it is different in the room? I think the music is more enjoyable with both tukans and 104. Where the 308 sounds very detailed and nice but the rhythm not there.

For example with the tukans you get a sense of a band playing together. The 308 sounds like a studio recording, lots of details, reverb and such but musicians falling asleep.
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 616
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Hermann »

Not easy I admit. After listening several times, even through headphones, I prefer the 308, with which I played both to the end. The Tukan next, but the 104 is not for me. To put it in hifi terminology, it sounds a bit bloated to my ears, while the Tukan still has a good balance. I think the 308 can do a bit more. Would also try a little more distance to the wall.
Trust your ears
anthony
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 786
Joined: 2007-02-04 22:39
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by anthony »

Charlie1 wrote: 2023-03-01 22:10 Thanks for sharing your thoughts Tom
Nigel at Tysons has some mint 212 for sale.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

jewa wrote: 2023-03-02 00:05 I don't think the 308 plays rhythm very well. Perhaps it is different in the room? I think the music is more enjoyable with both tukans and 104. Where the 308 sounds very detailed and nice but the rhythm not there.

For example with the tukans you get a sense of a band playing together. The 308 sounds like a studio recording, lots of details, reverb and such but musicians falling asleep.
I know what you mean. This is what first hits me too.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

Hermann wrote: 2023-03-02 09:38 Not easy I admit. After listening several times, even through headphones, I prefer the 308, with which I played both to the end. The Tukan next, but the 104 is not for me. To put it in hifi terminology, it sounds a bit bloated to my ears, while the Tukan still has a good balance. I think the 308 can do a bit more. Would also try a little more distance to the wall.
Thanks Herman.
A little further out is worse but perhaps there is another sweet spot more than a few cm further out.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

anthony wrote: 2023-03-02 13:44 Nigel at Tysons has some mint 212 for sale.
Thanks Anthony. Will check it out
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by lejonklou »

Charlie1 wrote: 2023-02-28 13:28 A couple of comparisons to budget Linn speakers.

1. VM95E/Slipsik/Wakonda/LK140/K104: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0g5mxyqn8aieu ... 6.mp4?dl=0
2. VM95E/Slipsik/Wakonda/308P: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6khqov766s0b ... 9.mp4?dl=0

This one is not as comparable cos the pre-amp is different, so I guess they're best thought of as separate systems.

1. VM95E/Slipsik/2016 Majik-i/Tukan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/avn36zn5geklw ... 4.mp4?dl=0
2. VM95E/Slipsik/Wakonda/308P: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vs3slb6yyu0dq ... 2.mp4?dl=0
I wasn’t impressed by the 308’s in any of these clips. Preferred both the 104 and Tukan.

Also don’t recognize their character from my own experiences, they seem not to be able hold the tempo consistently in these clips. They also sound like they’re far too close to the rear wall.

Although I don’t really think it’s helpful sharing positions from other rooms (better to try without prejudice), mine are currently 17.5 cm from the rear wall and 129 cm apart. Height is 66 cm above floor on Katan stands, which was much better than about 60 cm on Kan 2 stands in this room with 275 cm ceiling height.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

OK, Tx for listening. I'll see what I can do.
User avatar
markiteight
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 834
Joined: 2012-01-13 01:50
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by markiteight »

On the first pair of clips I slightly prefer the K104, but I had to go back and re-listen to make a choice. With Norah Jones I clearly preferred the Tukan setup, but like you said it's probably not a fair comparison. I agree with Fredrik that these recordings are not showing the 308s I'm familiar with, especially in the Norah Jones clips.

I initially hesitated on replying to this discussion because I felt that without a proper cable there wasn't really a point. The JBLs wouldn't be playing at their potential. Since they are self powered speakers the cables feeding them sit further up the signal path than conventional speaker cables. Thus they have much greater influence on a system's overall musical performance. This may be further exaggerated with the 308s because there's a lot more than just amplification going on inside them. It could be argued that the A/D, signal processing, D/A, and amplification stages all add more steps to the system hierarchy, making the point the signal leaves the preamplifier quite important from a Source First standpoint. With a less-than-optimum signal most of the system won't be playing at its best, and that compromise will be amplified with each subsequent stage.
Charlie1 wrote: 2023-03-02 18:24
anthony wrote: 2023-03-02 13:44 Nigel at Tysons has some mint 212 for sale.
Thanks Anthony. Will check it out
Earlier today Nigel announced on the bookeyfaces that those 212s had sold. Was that you, Charlie1?
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

markiteight wrote: 2023-03-03 01:06 On the first pair of clips I slightly prefer the K104, but I had to go back and re-listen to make a choice. With Norah Jones I clearly preferred the Tukan setup, but like you said it's probably not a fair comparison. I agree with Fredrik that these recordings are not showing the 308s I'm familiar with, especially in the Norah Jones clips.

I initially hesitated on replying to this discussion because I felt that without a proper cable there wasn't really a point. The JBLs wouldn't be playing at their potential. Since they are self powered speakers the cables feeding them sit further up the signal path than conventional speaker cables. Thus they have much greater influence on a system's overall musical performance. This may be further exaggerated with the 308s because there's a lot more than just amplification going on inside them. It could be argued that the A/D, signal processing, D/A, and amplification stages all add more steps to the system hierarchy, making the point the signal leaves the preamplifier quite important from a Source First standpoint. With a less-than-optimum signal most of the system won't be playing at its best, and that compromise will be amplified with each subsequent stage.
I moved them further apart so they're about 130cm apart now and I think that's an improvement. I tried further out but they sounded worse to me.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hy2p3j1kc47x8 ... 0.mp4?dl=0

The recording is also a bit louder this time so a better volume match to the k104s.

I take your point about the cabling.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2023-03-03 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by beck »

Clearly an improvement! :-)

Now, with better cables this might be a winner in your room…………
Playing cd’s…………
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks beck

I have to move back to 25cm+ to get another area I like the sound of. Clearer midrange with less reflection off the rear wall but is it more enjoyable?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gixl45fcwwhhh ... 6.mp4?dl=0
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by beck »

I personally enjoy your latest clip more. It is more what I like. Less fokus on detail, more “one” sound. I like it…..
Playing cd’s…………
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 616
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Hermann »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-02 22:36
[...]

Although I don’t really think it’s helpful sharing positions from other rooms (better to try without prejudice), mine are currently 17.5 cm from the rear wall and 129 cm apart. Height is 66 cm above floor on Katan stands, which was much better than about 60 cm on Kan 2 stands in this room with 275 cm ceiling height.
Experimenting with the height makes a lot of sense with the 308. Mine are 74.5cm high at the bottom and angled quite strongly (as near field speakers), which of course has other backgrounds. From the rear wall they are 78,1cm away on the outside and 68,6cm on the inside with an inner distance of 139.6cm and 98cm from the walls on each side. Room height is 3.30m. I had to bring them to ear level, of course. In my opinion they don't sound very well close together, even at lower listening distance, which I tested before.

I realise that my requirements are different. But the height of the Kan stands was not enough for me. My solution is to place two Mana Soundbases underneath each, which can easily be varied in height, and thus arrived at the actual height of the speakers. And since my office has laminate flooring, there is also a 3cm thick stone slab underneath that I once had cut to size of a Mana soundstage long time ago.

I have had good experience with beech wood (38mm thick), which I placed with spikes on both sides under e.g. the 305 with very good results. Perhaps it would make sense to cut a piece of wood of this type and place it under the 308 with spikes. Temporarily, books of different thickness may also do.
Trust your ears
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by lejonklou »

I liked the further apart better but not sure about the further out.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-03 11:57 I liked the further apart better but not sure about the further out.
Thanks for listening. Yeah, further out seemed different but not sure it was better either.
markiteight wrote: 2023-03-03 01:06 Earlier today Nigel announced on the bookeyfaces that those 212s had sold. Was that you, Charlie1?
Yes it was - I wanted to sort out payment before saying anything.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2023-03-03 14:17, edited 1 time in total.
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Defender »

I agree with markiteight
my setup changed significantly with the proper cables and I might have not emphasized it enough in my last post.
Again, they really react to proper installation including connecting them perfectly to the ground which is sometimes a little difficult in a 4 points setup vs a 3 point connection and you have it two times one time 4 points from the stands to the ground and 4 points from the stands to the JBL´s.
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by tokenbrit »

Charlie1 wrote: 2023-03-03 12:29
lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-03 11:57 I liked the further apart better but not sure about the further out.
Thanks for listening. Yeah, further out seemed different but not sure it was better either.
markiteight wrote: 2023-03-03 01:06 Earlier today Nigel announced on the bookeyfaces that those 212s had sold. Was that you, Charlie1?
Yes it was - I wanted to sort out payment before saying anything.
Are 'proper cables' in your plans for the LSR308s, or are you already looking forward to the Akurate 212s?

It doesn't seem like you're getting the 308 experience that others have found with them, and they're not convincing via the clips as if they're holding something (a lot?) back in your setup... I don't know if it's the cables, their setup sensitivity, or suitability to the room :? (in comparison, Hermann's 305 & 308 clips had something compelling that's absent here)

It would be interesting to hear 212 vs 308, but with the JBLs given a 'fair chance' in the same way that you wouldn't use cheap patch cables between source & amps :/
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

Well, can't help looking forward to the 212s no matter what the JBLs are doing.

I dunno. It's an analogue signal between Wakonda and the JBLs and I'm using a cheap cable. I don't have an issue using a cheap interconnect between pre and power amp. I have some here that don't sound as good as Linn ones but not the end of the world and music is still engaging.

I think the JBLs sound very good now but you're right, they're not compelling. I wonder if I'm trying to walk with a foot on two paths and the result is not pleasing to anyone. There are some people that don't like JBLs in any clips cos it's just not their thing, and many folks will not like my early 90s pre-Cirkus LP12 compared to a modern deck.
User avatar
jajo
Active member
Active member
Posts: 213
Joined: 2007-01-19 15:08
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by jajo »

308P/708P are tricky to install. Just one cm in any direction can make a huge difference (from boring to amazing). I have personally not owned the 212 but I had 242 for a long time and 308P is a big step up in musicality when installed properly. Give them some more work is my advice.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: JBL 308P and 708P

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks jajo and thanks also for bringing these to our attention.

I will see if I can further improve them.

I wasn't supplied original power cords and used the old Linn black 'n red ones. I've switched to modern Linn cords which is a bit better also.
Post Reply