Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

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snatex
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Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by snatex »

There seems to be a consensus that Linn speakers took a big performance jump when they introduced the 3k array on the 242’s and the others that followed. Would love to hear some thoughts on how the 3k array betters the previous more traditional Linn speaker models (Ninkas, Kabers, etc.). If you are not a fan of the 3k array and Linn’s newer speaker models please share that as well. And if you think there is something else in the market that offers the same performance capabilities as the 3k array or possibly betters it let’s hear about it. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by lindsayt »

Beating a Kaber or a Ninka is not a great acheivement amongst properly engineered speakers.

The Linn speakers that I've heard with 3K arrays, such as Akubariks are speakers that I'd rate as having excessively distorted midrange - at the generous volumes used for the demos / bake-offs I attended. With this distortion being of a nature that subtracts significantly from the tunefulness when compared against certain cherry picked speakers.

Classic Altecs, JBL's, EV's with their top of the range compression drivers and horns have less distorted and more tuneful midranges and trebles than Linn's 3k array.
I'd also rate the Accuton drivers I've heard as having more tuneful midrange and treble than the 3k.
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by Tendaberry »

My opinion differs from Lindsay's: I'm very happy with the 3K array of my Akubariks and can hear no distortion at my listening volumes. The Akubariks (and the 242's I had before) were a massive improvement over the treble/mid of the Ninkas.
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by lindsayt »

The sort of distortion with Akubariks in the midrange is not the sort of crackly distorion you get on AM on a car radio whilst driving near Newark.

It's a not being able to cope with the vocalist, lead guitar, rhythm, keyboard player all hittin a transient at the same time type of distortion, Which happens a lot in the music I listen to. Even with studio recordings, it's supposed to sound like a band playing together as a band.

Anyway, with Alubariks, they're not good when you get midrange transients from multiple instruments happening at the same time. And keeping it so you can follow the tune being played by each instrument - with ease. Without having to fill in things with your imagination.

It's an effect that is very obvious in a A/B demo against better speakers. If you play the Akubariks in isolation or against similar or worse sounding speakers, it's easy to write what you hear off against "It's not a very good recording." Or "It's supposed to sound that way."

But please don't take my word for it. Look for speakers with Accuton drivers and compare them against your Akubariks.
Or look for classic, top of the range 1950's to 1980's EV, Altec, JBL's with compression drivers and horns.

In the midrange - as a sweeping statement - the most tuneful sounding drivers seem to be the ones with the lowest moving mass for the electromotive force on offer. Which makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by Spannko »

The Kef B110 used in the Kan’s (very tuneful) and LS3/5a’s (not particularly tuneful) has a 10.5g moving mass. The £850 Accuton midrange driver is 1/3 heavier at 14g. Just sayin!
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by lindsayt »

Spannko wrote: 2021-07-24 22:07 The Kef B110 used in the Kan’s (very tuneful) and LS3/5a’s (not particularly tuneful) has a 10.5g moving mass. The £850 Accuton midrange driver is 1/3 heavier at 14g. Just sayin!
I can't find any Accuton drivers that sell for £850. Maybe you can tell us exactly which one you were referring to?

Are you comparing the 130mm Kef B110 bass/mid driver against a 173mm Accuton driver?
https://us.kef.com/pub/media/pdf/Datash ... SP1003.pdf
https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/downl ... -6-090.pdf

How about comparing the 130mm Kef B110 bass/mid against a 130 mm Accuton midrange driver?
https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/downl ... -6-078.pdf
So that's 10.5g moving mass for the Kef vs 7g moving mass for the Accuton.

And more to the point, do a listening test. Kans vs a speaker with 130mm Accuton drivers.

I am very familiar with the sound of the Kef B110 in my own Linn Isobarik speakers. In this speaker it's OK for tunefulness, Nothing special.
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by Spannko »

Here: https://willys-hifi.com/collections/ac ... e-midrange

The manufacturer describes this midrange as a 120mm cone in a 170mm basket.

I don’t think listening to speakers will tell me anything about the performance of the individual drive units. Kans and LS3/5a’s use the same or very similar drive units, yet sound completely different to one another.
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by lindsayt »

Spannko wrote: 2021-07-26 06:46 Here: https://willys-hifi.com/collections/ac ... e-midrange

The manufacturer describes this midrange as a 120mm cone in a 170mm basket.

I don’t think listening to speakers will tell me anything about the performance of the individual drive units. Kans and LS3/5a’s use the same or very similar drive units, yet sound completely different to one another.
The Kef B110 has a 90mm cone in a 130mm basket.
And you're comparing this to an Accuton driver with a 120mm cone in a 170mm basket?

And yes indeed, when you do comparative listening tests with speakers, the better sounding speaker will depend on the choice of drivers, the cabinet design and construction, the crossover and the placement of the speaker within the given room, including how appropriate the placement is for that particular speaker and room combination. As well as the amplifier to speaker interaction.

Sometimes it can be tricky isolating the sonic effects that the driver choice has had. Whilst sometimes it's blindingly obvious what the major sonic impacts of the driver choice are.

Keep an open mind. Try a few speakers of the genres I've suggested - if you ever get the chance. And trust what your ears tell you, using tunedem. Never trust reputations. Nor what other people have told you - including me.
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by Spannko »

lindsayt wrote: 2021-07-27 17:16 Keep an open mind. Try a few speakers of the genres I've suggested - if you ever get the chance. And trust what your ears tell you, using tunedem. Never trust reputations. Nor what other people have told you - including me.
This is great advice lindsayt!
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by snatex »

lindsayt wrote: 2021-07-24 17:10 But please don't take my word for it. Look for speakers with Accuton drivers and compare them against your Akubariks. Or look for classic, top of the range 1950's to 1980's EV, Altec, JBL's with compression drivers and horns.
What speakers have Accuton drivers? Any recent speakers with compression drivers or horns that you like?
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by Tendaberry »

snatex wrote: 2021-07-27 23:09
lindsayt wrote: 2021-07-24 17:10 But please don't take my word for it. Look for speakers with Accuton drivers and compare them against your Akubariks. Or look for classic, top of the range 1950's to 1980's EV, Altec, JBL's with compression drivers and horns.
What speakers have Accuton drivers? Any recent speakers with compression drivers or horns that you like?
Ayon, Gauder, Marten, Tidal, Vroemen and AudiaZ are some of the manufacturers using Accuton drivers.
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Re: Linn 3k array vs previous Linn speakers and other brands

Post by lindsayt »

snatex wrote: 2021-07-27 23:09
lindsayt wrote: 2021-07-24 17:10 But please don't take my word for it. Look for speakers with Accuton drivers and compare them against your Akubariks. Or look for classic, top of the range 1950's to 1980's EV, Altec, JBL's with compression drivers and horns.
What speakers have Accuton drivers? Any recent speakers with compression drivers or horns that you like?
Recent speakers with compression drivers and horns that are at a price that I'd like include DIY'd speakers.

There is no value in buying new, or made in the last 10 years commercially made speakers with compression drivers and horns. Unless you're lucky enough to find one of those once in a lifetime right place right time deals.

There is a lot of value in buying certain cherry picked classic speakers that are on sale at the right price.
And there's fantastic value in buying a set of cherry picked high efficiency drivers from various sources and putting them together in your own DIY'd speaker.
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