LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

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LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Dazza »

Hi & thank you Admin for approving my registration.

Question.
I have an owned from new but hardly used Linn Classik K. I'm using its CD player (via Tape Out into my Naim 202/200DR) to burn in new Tellurium Q Black II speaker cables. Frankly, i've been surprised how good it sounds and wondered where it stood in the old Linn CD Hierarchy and if it could be improved with an outboard DAC.
I have a reasonable CD collection which like a lot of folk I acquired when vinyl took a back seat (and kids came along) so i'm mainly curious.

FYI, my main system is Karousel'd LP12/Ekos/LINTO/DV20XL with PMC Twenty5.21's....and a NORD Streamer

Look forward to your responses.

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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Tendaberry »

Yes, the Classik was an amazing piece of kit, add a couple of Katan speakers and you had a very competent system. There's a digital output, so you could connect an external DAC. But the internal DAC is alrerady pretty good...
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Dazza »

Thank you

So, would you put it on a par with Genki or Ikemi? And, the $64k question, what level of DAC would improve it?
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by lejonklou »

My guess is that no external DAC will improve upon the internal one.

The DAC is the last and least important part of the digital replay chain. It's the digital equivalent of the cartridge on a turntable. You don't fit a fantastic cartridge to a mediocre turntable, because the result will not rise above mediocre.

When you have an internal DAC made by a competent designer, it's often close to ideally connected to the digital stream, while an external DAC will likely not be as well adapted to the available digital output.

So my guess is that you won't be able to improve upon the internal DAC regardless of how much money you throw at it.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by dasher »

Dazza wrote: 2021-03-18 14:53 Thank you

So, would you put it on a par with Genki or Ikemi? And, the $64k question, what level of DAC would improve it?
I have one in the kitchen, with Katans, and my dad uses one as his main pre-power combination. he uses it in conjunction with an LK140 - also with Katans.

Is it as good as a Genki or Ikemi? as a stand alone CD player -definitely not - and over the years I've had both - feeding Kolektor, Wakonda, Kairn into LK85s and LK 140s. An LK85/ Kolektor/Kelidh combination was at least as good and add a second LK power amp (or a 140) and was much better all round.

However, and this is the trick of the Classik, as a single box, playing CDs through Katans or similar it just makes music. and you actually don't ask 'is it good' you just listen! My dad's, with his Axis, is very enjoyable (admittedly the LK140 helps) - it will be even better when I finally get his LP12 back to him!

I've never considered using it as a transport - I like the fact that it is just one box (and in a silly sea green colour)!
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by ThomasOK »

I had one in blue as part of a bedroom system for a while. Never actually listened in the bedroom so I sold it a long time ago. It was a quite nice unit but the CD section is certainly not of the level of a Genki, much less Ikemi. But for what it was it was a very good piece.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Dazza »

Thank you for all your responses. Very informative and very much appreciated.

In the very short space of time i've been aware of this forum and now a member, fair to say i'm mighty impressed. What a breath of fresh air this is.

.....one another question if i may please.. Other than a Genki or Ikemi and IF i wished to improve my CD listening with a better player (i'll look out for a quality Ikemi), could you please advise a sub £700 player that fits. ......and no, i won't be selling the Classik K. I've had it from new. It's a much loved friend and i'll just move it to form a small system elsewhere. . ......Oh how i wish i had'nt sold my Linn Kan Mk1's now. Huge mistake
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by ThomasOK »

I can't say if it is better having not done the comparison, and I'm not sure what it goes for £, but the most musical new CD player I know for around that money is the current Rega Apollo. It is really quite good (not at Ikemi level but who knows compared to a Genki).
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by u252agz »

Whilst on the subject of old Linn CD players, I have a Classik Movie which is really quite a decent CD player with a perfectly good preamp and amplfier section.

As enjoyable as a Genki/Kolektor/LK85 combo that I started off my Linn journey with, but not up to the Ikemi that I replaced the Genki with.

A Linn sneaky with a good NAS/ Streaming is however much better than the ikemi and sounds quite good when run through the Classik movie.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Dazza »

This has really got me thinking as pre your response ug252agz I'd been reading very good things about the Innuos Zen Mini Mk 3 which with its onboard DAC seems a very capable CD Ripper and streamer. This could playback thru my Naim 202/200dr and so the blurb says, be on a par/better than CD quality! Its a bit more money but only a bit.

I've absolutely no experience of a CD Ripper/NAS so am in the dark. However, I already have a few concerns with the Zen. Firstly, It has no APP so control is web based via its own site. Secondly, I don't know how playback thru the Naim amps is achieved if no APP.

Any further advice appreciated

Thanks
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by dasher »

u252agz wrote: 2021-03-20 13:10 Whilst on the subject of old Linn CD players, I have a Classik Movie which is really quite a decent CD player with a perfectly good preamp and amplfier section.

As enjoyable as a Genki/Kolektor/LK85 combo that I started off my Linn journey with, but not up to the Ikemi that I replaced the Genki with.

A Linn sneaky with a good NAS/ Streaming is however much better than the ikemi and sounds quite good when run through the Classik movie.
It is Interesting that you found that - I certainly didn't hear that to be the case. I demoed my Ikemi, at home, against an original Majik DS and the Magic wasn't even close. I still had a Genki too, and also compared that to the Majik DS. I felt that the MDS was much closer to the Genki than the Ikemi. Needless to say, I didn't make the swap at that point. In fact it took a KRDS/1 to prise me away from the Ikemi.

I used a Classik movie for several years for cinema playback and thought that ir was a super box for that use. I believe, but have never actually owned one, that the later (and final) version was very good. I still have my Classik Movie (in blue!). It still sounds good - bit I prefer the audio only version. I stream to the Classik (K) via a Raumfeld "Connector" - and it's good enough for the kitchen!
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by u252agz »

Good to see that there are others out there still using classik movies.

I find my sneakys to be quite good when used with a separate integrated amplifier and a good NAS /streaming, but I do wish i had kept my Ikemi - it was a revelation when i first bought it.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by ThomasOK »

On the other hand it would be a different kind of revelation when it stopped reliably playing discs and you found out you couldn't get it fixed!
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Chet »

The Ikemi is something special. It sounds very good, but I really like them I think because of its design and build. By that it is subjective, when you just like a favourite car, not because it make perfect sense.
But in the linn family, the Unidisc 1.1 sounds better (clearly noticeable) and is not that far off your budget.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by u252agz »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-03-20 22:34 On the other hand it would be a different kind of revelation when it stopped reliably playing discs and you found out you couldn't get it fixed!
In that case one could always console yourself with the view that:

'tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all'
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by beck »

u252agz wrote: 2021-03-22 09:53
ThomasOK wrote: On the other hand it would be a different kind of revelation when it stopped reliably playing discs and you found out you couldn't get it fixed!
In that case one could always console yourself with the view that:

'tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all'
:-)
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Tendaberry »

I went from Ikemi to Unidisk 1.1 to Akurate DS and each step was clearly better than before. Good VFM are also the Classik Music 08, which usually go for very little money.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Dazza »

After reading all your responses i was still curious as to where the Linn Classik K/230 Music stood in relation to its engine/DAC & performance, speciifically to the Genki & Ikemi so i contacted Linn.

Frankly they gave nothing away and just responded with the following.......'The Classik was an all in one system, so would sit beneath the Genki & Ikemi stand alone disc players in terms of performance. The mechanism in the Classik is specifically only in the Classik Cd players'.

I was hoping for a bit more info but sadly that was it.

Anyhow, back to one of my earlier points. If NOT an Ikemi (rare as hens teeth) or perhaps even a pre owned Naim CD5i (see these going for under £600) is there a reasonably priced CD player out there which comes close to the Ikemi & CD5i? What about the Marantz CD6007 for example?
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by ThomasOK »

I guess it depends on what you call reasonable. I would highly recommend giving a listen to the Rega Apollo which runs $1095 in the US. It is a quite musical player, but I haven't compared it to Genki or Ikemi so hard to say how it would stack up. I can say that a friend owns one and uses it alongside a Klimax LP12 with Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge through Sagatun 1.4 and Tundra 2.5 into Quad ELS57s and he is quite happy with it.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by dasher »

I'm not sure whether your <£700 CD player budget is for new or used, but you could get an Exposure CD player for that budget (used) - such as a 3010. I've never owned one myself but have listened to one several times as, at one point, I was considering a full Exposure 3010 system (CD, Pre, Power) - I didn't go that route, not because I didn't like what I heard, but because the room that it was going into really benefitted from having Space Optimisation available and therefore I went forwards with a Linn DSM. In my main system I use a Unidisk SC for silver disc spinning and had already moved my Genki and Ikemi on. I didn't do A/B comparisons but felt that the Exposure delivered what I was used to. I've only briefly heard the Rega Apollo and also liked what I heard.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Tendaberry »

If you are willing to spend a bit more, go for the Linn Akurate CD player, I found one for € 1.475,- or maybe a Unidisk 2.1 (or 1.1 if you can afford it).
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Dazza »

Wow...very informative responses. Thank you.

I've opened the proverbial can of worms for myself.

Genki's (Ikemi if you can even find one) prices are thru the roof £1400+
Linn Accurate CD player is very appealing for similar Genki money
Naim CD5i & CD5si also as i already run 202/200dr/NAPSC (i owned a CD3 once upon a time too)
.......wild cards in LEEMA Acoustics & Moon CD Players also but ive no experience of either.

I'll soldier on and probably surprise myself and pay the big bucks necessary. Oh what joy
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by Chet »

If you can find an Akurate CD player & fits budget - get it they are really good, in linn line up only the CD12 is better.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by u252agz »

Dazza wrote: 2021-03-31 09:55 Wow...very informative responses. Thank you.

I've opened the proverbial can of worms for myself.

Genki's (Ikemi if you can even find one) prices are thru the roof £1400+
Linn Accurate CD player is very appealing for similar Genki money
Naim CD5i & CD5si also as i already run 202/200dr/NAPSC (i owned a CD3 once upon a time too)
.......wild cards in LEEMA Acoustics & Moon CD Players also but ive no experience of either.

I'll soldier on and probably surprise myself and pay the big bucks necessary. Oh what joy
Before you sign on the dotted line for any of these Linn CD players - good as they are, make sure you have someone available who can fix them. I am told the lasers can be easily replaced and the optical sensor on the drawer mechanism is another likely part which may need replacing on an Ikemi.

If you don't have a friendly technician who can do this ( and for reasonable cost) maybe OK Thomas' suggestion of Rega Apollo is the best bet. Its a shame it needs so much space on top for the CD loading mechanism.
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Re: LINN Classik K - CD Engine & DAC Quality

Post by ThomasOK »

I'd take that a step further. I would make sure your preferred technician has a reliable supply of lasers. The problem is that the original lasers for Ikemi, Karik, Genki, Mimik, etc. are basically unobtanium. They haven't been made for years as the computer technology they were made for moves on quickly so almost nobody uses CD or DVD type players any more. You will see advertisements for lasers for them but they are mostly Chinese knock-offs and generally don't work. Some companies may still have the occasional original laser mech but even those can be suspect as there are materials in the lasers that don't age well.

This is not just a Linn thing as I was told by a customer that Naim can't fix many of their CD units including his second to top line one. So out of production CD players are definitely a bit risky.
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