From another forum:

One of the Linn dealers sent this message to a Linn owner after auditioning their new Klimax DSM/3 Organik

“Organik is a complete knockout! Biggest step in sound quality from Linn so far!
Way better than Klimax2016 and bigger difference than previous step of Akurate to Klimax.
Katalyst was a mere whiff compared to this. Makes the Majik poweramps sound like Klimax singles. Bass is fantastic!!”

Did someone listen to the Organik KDSM?
Thanks

Matt

Sounds promising to say the least and in line with the atmosphere of the launch event invitation e-mail.
Strangely, this was not the feeling I got from the event itself where they spoke more about a lower noise floor.

the lower noise floor is certainly not what makes a difference - the noise floor with Katalyst was already close to the limit of the instruments to measure it
my LP12 is noisy beyond comparison so if noise is the narrative than good luck for Linn ... as already said they are not the first company with a discrete DAC so they better do something differently

They have done something differently - racked up the price to an absurd level.

macrotech2 wrote: ↑2021-04-08 18:41 They have done something differently - racked up the price to an absurd level.

A highend dealer in NYC mentioned recently that he sells much more systems in the price range beyond 100k than below 100k.
So Linn is now in a good company of other manufacturers like dCS, Vitus etc. who offer devices for these customers.
If the performance is on the same level or beyond, why not (purely from a marketing POV)?
Linn products have always been very expensive, for example even such things as a Keel...

Matt

macrotech2 wrote: ↑2021-04-08 18:41 They have done something differently - racked up the price to an absurd level.

Linn's goal might be to make really big money...fast and easy. Manufacturing audio components in a similar fashion as Fredrik, would likely require a change in business philosophy, business practices and vision. Plus, it might require way more effort as well (taking away fast and easy).

matthias wrote: ↑2021-04-08 19:24 Linn products have always been very expensive

The LP12 was less than £350 at an early stage.

macrotech2 wrote: ↑2021-04-08 18:41 They have done something differently - racked up the price to an absurd level.

If you employ people with job titles such as "Brand Ambassador" the customers have to pay a premium. Linn's focus has changed markedly over the years.

FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2021-04-08 20:01 The LP12 was less than £350 at an early stage.

Agreed,
same for LK1/LK2-80 which I really liked.
But this time has passed.

Matt

My dealer is thoroughly enjoying it. He also said it looks better than in the photos. Looking forward to a listen sometime.

here is what I expect - for that price for a source component it has to be not only on par with an LP12 at half the price but better - and the noise level is not the measure for comparison. If thats the case - respect.
I hope they dont get embarrassed by another company which starts with an L

this company already embarrassed them at their top pre amp (we cant make it better in analog domain)
this company already embarrassed them at their top of the line power amp
this company already embarrassed them at their top of the line phono pre

... lets see what comes next (I dont think it will be a loudspeaker)


mmh actually I hope they get embarrassed another time

Defender wrote: ↑2021-04-08 20:29 here is what I expect - for that price for a source component it has to be not only on par with an LP12 at half the price but better - and the noise level is not the measure for comparison. If thats the case - respect.
I hope they dont get embarrassed by another company which starts with an L

To be fair the price of a Klimax LP12 is 63% of the new KDSM, but anyway if Lejonklou offers a digital source component......

Matt

Still, Linn’s present customers (at least the minority on the wigwam forum) seem to feel Space Optimization is god’s gift to hi-fi so it is a hard sell to those people who feel SO is better than attention to installation etc.

Defender wrote: ↑2021-04-08 20:29 we cant make it better in analog domain

Did Linn actually state that they couldn't make a better analog preamp than the Klimax Kontrol, or that they didn't think they could make a better analog than they could digital preamp?

I don't know if the difference between those hypothetical statements is subtle, but it is significant.

there is an interview with David Williamson? somewhere in the net - I am not 100% sure about his name - former head of Linn product design which goes along with this document:
https://small.linncdn.com/white-papers/ ... re-amp.pdf

all based on comparing measurements and noise

he said the way to improve on Klimax Kontrol/2 was to do it digital - which is actually the same as saying we cant do analog any better thats why we do it digital and the paper is the „proof“

If I remember it right it was a Linn Technology Session or a live session where you could directly ask questions.

Then it is up to each and everyone to conclude whether that was the true reason or if possibly the developments of SO and exakt might have been the true reason...

I was also told that Linn couldn’t make a better analogue preamp. I was at a Linn event (I can’t remember what for) where I was speaking to Keith Robertson (correct name?), a really nice guy who I believe was a technical head at the time. We were discussing DVC which I wasn’t keen on, and he said that Linn couldn’t go any further with analogue preamps.

Subtle guy that I am, I said I owned a pair of mono preamps which were significantly better than my previous Klimax Kontrol. He took it in good spirits and we chatted a few times at further events. So I have first hand evidence.

yes it was around 2015 and you are right other reasons might have been the real reason - and yes everyone should test the truth of this.
I have so far not experienced one DVC solution which convinced me (same is true for a passive volume control)

yes you are right it was Keith Robertson I think he was head of R&D not David

thats why I couldnt find the video but with Keith Robertson I think this is the one:
https://vimeo.com/130453166

Defender wrote: ↑2021-04-09 12:51 [...]he said the way to improve on Klimax Kontrol/2 was to do it digital - which is actually the same as saying we cant do analog any better thats why we do it digital.

No, it isn't quite, but I guess I'm splitting hairs now and it's mostly academical, because we all know which way Linn went.

cortina wrote: ↑2021-04-09 13:01 Then it is up to each and everyone to conclude whether that was the true reason or if possibly the developments of SO and exakt might have been the true reason...

Yeah, I suspect this is a large part of it. The digital path probably fit too well into their other research/plans to not embrace it.

My ten Cents. The KK dual mono pre is superb, I was convinced it couldn’t be bettered.
I was wrong. The MDSM/2 KAT DVC is easily better and that’s why I changed from KK KDSM KAT. I thought long and hard about changing from analog volume control to digital but in the end.......


Just my opinion and respect to those running Lejonklou pre amps too.

There is not a Majik Katalist DSM

Maybe you were referring to the ADSM/3

M.

it was a lengthy discussion on the Linn forum and Keith also contributed once in a while there and I think he stated that the only way to improve was to do it digital ... or that he didnt had other ideas to improve it ... something along those lines - but my memory can trick me here at least thats what kept in my mind.


anyway sorry for sidetracking and talking opinions - lets get back to hope that someone who actually had a chance to hear it can contribute

Tony Tune-age wrote: ↑2021-04-08 19:50 Linn's goal might be to make really big money...fast and easy.

Linn puts an inordinate amount of money into R&D (which has had them at the forefront of quality consumer music reproduction for decades) and produces, to my mind, mostly great to excellent products (no, I haven't heard them all). Some of them are very expensive, which means they have to be pretty damned good to convince any sane person to buy them. None of this spells "fast and easy" to me.

Tony Tune-age wrote: ↑2021-04-08 19:50 Manufacturing audio components in a similar fashion as Fredrik, would likely require a change in business philosophy, business practices and vision.

Now that's at least the understatement of the week! :D
I would go so far as to claim that it is impossible for any company to do at scale what Lejonklou does.

See this post for a description of how he does things:
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 691#p55691

You cannot scale this approach! At least not past a very small group of like minded and skilled people (and good luck finding those). After that, cost would go up and therefore either prices had to go up or quality suffer. Almost certainly both.

Lejonklou is unicorn hifi. I hope he will make products this good for many more years (I love my Giella), but if Lejonklou ever grows to a 150 people company, I think they would be lucky to do as well as Linn.

--

To attempt to get back on topic.. I haven't heard the new DSM, but I plan to when my dealer receives his demo unit. Which he expects to be in two weeks..

Matteo wrote: ↑2021-04-09 13:41 There is not a Majik Katalist DSM

Maybe you were referring to the ADSM/3

M.

Ah thanks for your comment.
I mean the KDSM/2 KAT

SO was very popular in the 70s and 80s. Back then it was called a graphic equaliser.

I ordered the new hub 3 days after the Linn cast presentation.  I spoke to Linn today about a possible delivery date.  They could not give any indication of a date as they have been inundated with orders.