ThomasOK wrote: ↑2021-01-29 21:17 The Jelco arm has adjustable height, as do all Linn arms, to allow fro proper VTA. There should be no need for shims, they would harm perfromance and I'm not even sure where they would even put them. The Karousel inner platter is the same as the Cirkus one but the bearing housing and inner platter should always be replaced as a pair. Also the Karousel requires a specific torque to give the most musical perfromance. Linn recommends 3.5Nm which is close although I found 3.4Nm to be more musical as you can read elsewhere on the forum. But the point is that the Karousel should not be installed without a torque driver in the proper range. I have found it to be quite sensitive to torque and Linn cautions against torquing above 4.0Nm. If this torque is not right the LP12 will not perform as it should.

The more I hear about this dealer the less thrilled I am about them. I hope they can get this straightened out for you. Good luck with it.

Thomas,

I took some pictures, don't know how relevant they are, but, is normal to have this "dents"?
Sorry, maybe I'm becoming annoying, but I started do doubt everything.
It seems to me that he hasn't used the right tools to have the Karousel mounted.

https://imgur.com/BDZbqTw

Looks to me that too much force has been applied causing such a large indent and also looks like an open spanner has been used instead of a correctly sizes socket.

It certainly looks like the wrong type of tool was used. It should be a six point 20mm socket and a proper torque wrench. Linn has a technical document recommending a few appropriate torque drivers in their dealer support site. It does look more like it was tightened with an open ended wrench, although it is hard to tell for sure. Linn warns that over-tightening the Karousel will damage it.

Guys,
Thank you all for your insights and advice.

I've made up my mind, I'll send an email to Linn and on Monday I will call them again.

Somehow these issues will be sorted out.

Sorry to hear about your issues BSilviuLuc.

Any updates since last time you wrote?

Kind regards

Cobra Dave wrote: ↑2021-02-17 14:09 Sorry to hear about your issues BSilviuLuc.

Any updates since last time you wrote?

Kind regards

Hi Dave,

I explained my situation to LINN and they apologized. They realized that my dealer was in fact "schooled" by them.
My dealer is willing to check my turntable, but I must go to his shop. 5 hours drive. When I have enough money, as I wish to update to Lingo 4, I'll pay him a visit. He assured me that those dents are normal on my Karousel, as there was friction metal to metal.(Tool used to have the Karousel installed, and the Karousel cap itself), He also assured me that he used the right tools. Now, I wish to pay him a visit when I have some time and enough money.
I'm not 100% sure that he's saying the truth. But he's willing to help me and that's something.
My plan is to update by the end of this year to lingo 4 and buy Slipsik 7 phono. Next two years I want a new tonearm. Ekos se or something better at the same price, Kore and trampolin.

Very sorry to discover this thread, and read about your troubles. My first idea was flaws in the setup, and if it wasn't for the distance, I'd have suggested to bring the LP12 back to the dealer, and leave it there until the dealer has sorted out and fixed all issues, AND demostrated this to you in his listening room.

My dealer always auditions the LP12 in his shop, before bringing it to the client.
Having stated this, one question remains open to me: How did you get your LP12 after the initial setup? Did the dealer deliver, and reassembled / adjusted it in your home? Did you pick it up at the dealers? Was it sent by a logistics service? A dealer 5 hrs away is a PIA, and only worth the ride, if he's truly a great LP12 fettler.

I know, though, that my trusted dealer has clients in an equal distance, despite the fact that there are many other Linn dealers on the way. He usually delivers (pre-assembled in his workshop) LP12s himself, and makes them sing in the client's home. Transporting an LP12 is not rocket science, but a few things need to be taken care of, not to damage the platter bearing, or the tonearm. Make sure to take care in this respect, when you take the LP12 to your dealer, or back home to yourself.

I hope everything turns out nicely for you. An LP12 is a marvelous instrument, that can give you decades of joy - when it works as designed. I'm a very happy LP12 owner since the early 90s, and i never regretted any cent I spent on it. But then I have a very nice, committed, and skilled dealer - probably the most important "accessory' to this wonderful turntable.
Please keep us posted - and get the Lingo4 (or a Radikal)!

Hi there,

Thanks so much for your message.

Indeed, my experience wasn't nice at all.

The turntable was set in his shop and then he personally has brought it to me. The thing is we didn't make a clinical audition. He just tested the bouncing, and the stylus tracking force. I would say that it was properly shipped. He used some pieces of foam to "block" the suspension.
I started listening to the turntable next day, and realized that there's no much difference(if there's any) considering my Planar 3 with Carbon cartridge.

Now, I might be biased. - I had for a couple of days a Rega Exact cart mounted on my Planar 3. And it sounded heavenly.
But please keep in mind that I was using Rega Fono MM MK3 phono stage. Maybe, just maybe, due to the synergy between the components, that combo sounded better than my Linn with Adikt and same phono stage.

I'm not saying that my Linn is sounding bad. It's just doesn't sound better than my Rega Planar 3. And, oh boy, I really expect my Linn to trounce the poor Rega 3. Maybe not the fortunate comparison, but I feel my Linn is running like a car with the hand-break on.

I tried a Dynavector P75 Mk3 phono stage. - there was a very very small difference in sound quality and I honestly prefer the Rega phono stage.

Now, I'm tempted to try a Gaio or a Slipsik. But, I'm a little bit held up by the thought that I might have an issue somewhere else.

I'm also planning to have a Lingo 4 mounted by the end of the year. My dealer is willing to buyback my Majik power source and we agreed to have the Lingo for 1100 euros(installation included). But, in all fairness, I don't trust my dealer 100%. I'm afraid that he has a refurbished lingo and he'll use that. Maybe I'm a little bit(too) skeptical.
But of course, then I'm thinking: Maybe it will be better to wait for 12-18 months and aim for the Radikal.

What puzzled me is that there's no difference in sound quality when I switch the phono stage. The Revox's phono stage and Rega phono stage are producing more or less the same sound.
I repeat: When I got the Exact cartridge mounted on my Rega, the difference was HUGE. First I used the Revox's phono stage, and I was like: Meh....nothing much changed. Then I plugged in my Rega Phono stage, and the blanket was removed off of my speakers. I was blown away. I could not believe what a difference a cartridge could make.
That makes me believe that maybe there's not the same compatibility between my Adikt and Rega fono/Revox's Phono stage like Exact and Rega Fono.

Maybe I'll have the chance to test a Lejonklou phono stage. And then, I know for sure that the compatibility with my Adikt is spot on. And then, for sure, I'll have some answer and clues.

Presumably you paid quite a bit for the Majik LP12?

If you paid that much it should sound considerably better than the much cheaper Rega 3. Regardless of the amplification and speakers that you are using.

Otherwise what is the point? It's just been a big waste of money.

In evolving your system it should be a case of survival of the fittest. If you have 2 components, whichever sounds best stays.
If 2 are about equal, cheapest stays.
Any more expensive component has to justify itself with sufficiently better sound quality. Otherwise it makes no sense to keep it.

Be ruthless. Trust your ears.

Aim, if you can, to always buy on a return for a full refund if you are not 100% happy basis. Or to buy at a price where you could sell on for a small profit or minimal loss - with this applying particularly to used equipment.

Another consideration. I had heard a Majik/Jelco against a brand new Majik/Krane at the dealer and was not impressed by the new one. On the contrary, I didn't think it was that good. It turned out that the Krane had a fault. So, maybe the problem is the tone arm and not the deck.

BSilviuLuc:

I would not give this dealer another penny (Lingo 4, Krystal, etc) until the LP12 has been set up to your COMPLETE satisfaction, as presently configured. I, too, don't get a good feeling for this dealer who, now that he has your money, is short changing you on service.

What city/country are you located in? Maybe there's another dealer not too much further away with a better reputation?

The main issue is that I live in Romania, so there's only one Linn dealer in the whole country.
Now, the first thing that I wish to do is to try another amplifier. My Revox B250 is quite old and some capacitors for sure are not working in their original range. I have no idea how much these capacitors influence the sound quality, but it never hurts to try a different amplifier. Also, I'm planning to upgrade my Rega Fono MM MK3 to Slipsik.
I strongly believe that there's a better compatibility between my phono stage + a Rega cartridge than my phono stage + Linn Adikt cart.

I talked to my dealer, and he swears that my LP12 is perfectly set. He is willing to check it for me if I bring it to his shop. But then again, I have in mind the scratches on my Karousel's cap. When I mentioned those he got really defensive - explaining friction steel on steel.

Sorry to read about your problems.
I would first check whether the Revox B 250 is set to the correct mains voltage. The manufacturer prescribes this, by the way. If it is set to 220V, that is definitely wrong. Internally, it should be set to 240V, as the higher voltage (230V) applies throughout Europe since 2013..

Of course, capacitors influence the sound. Unfortunately, our ears get used to this over the years, perhaps fortunately. Nevertheless, I would try another integrated as a test.

Thomas wrote that if the Linn can't handle the Rega, something is fundamentally wrong. It is difficult to say to what extent the scratches on the carousel play a role. However, it points to a rather rough force. A first test would be to pull the spindle out and see how long it takes to dive back in. Maybe there is too little oil or too much.

Hermann wrote: ↑2021-06-14 15:25 Sorry to read about your problems.
I would first check whether the Revox B 250 is set to the correct mains voltage. The manufacturer prescribes this, by the way. If it is set to 220V, that is definitely wrong. Internally, it should be set to 240V, as the higher voltage (230V) applies throughout Europe since 2013..

Of course, capacitors influence the sound. Unfortunately, our ears get used to this over the years, perhaps fortunately. Nevertheless, I would try another integrated as a test.

Thomas wrote that if the Linn can't handle the Rega, something is fundamentally wrong. It is difficult to say to what extent the scratches on the carousel play a role. However, it points to a rather rough force. A first test would be to pull the spindle out and see how long it takes to dive back in. Maybe there is too little oil or too much.

Hi Hermann,
Really appreciate your reply. So thanks! One question though: What do you mean by :" Pull the spindle out and see how long it takes do dive back in".
I carefully fit it back, I'm not letting it diving by itself. Afraid that the other end of the spindle would hit hard on my bearing.... Now I'm wondering: it should slide inside nicely, not hitting hard the Karousel's bottom?
Sorry if my question is not clear, english is not my main language....

BSilviuLuc wrote: ↑2021-06-14 09:58 The main issue is that I live in Romania, so there's only one Linn dealer in the whole country.
Now, the first thing that I wish to do is to try another amplifier. My Revox B250 is quite old and some capacitors for sure are not working in their original range. I have no idea how much these capacitors influence the sound quality, but it never hurts to try a different amplifier. Also, I'm planning to upgrade my Rega Fono MM MK3 to Slipsik.
I strongly believe that there's a better compatibility between my phono stage + a Rega cartridge than my phono stage + Linn Adikt cart.

I wouldn't assume that the fault lies elsewhere. As good as the Rega is, the Linn should sound immediately and immensely better. If it doesn't, there's something Radikally (!) wrong.

Be careful you don't "throw good money after bad" as we say.

Hermann wrote: ↑2021-06-14 15:25 A first test would be to pull the spindle out and see how long it takes to dive back in. Maybe there is too little oil or too much.

Linn expressly warn against "dropping" the inner platter into the bearing well. The bearing has slots cut into the liner to allow oil to move up above the spindle as it is lowered into the well. It doesn't "float" down slowly into the well like an old Thorens would.

Correct, I had checked and remembered wrong . Thanks to you. Perhaps I had also described it in a misleading way. Only noticeable is a small resistance just before contact with the bottom.

Hello BSilviuLu,

You are obviously not happy with your LP12. Unfortunately I do not think you can salvage this situation. There will always be a nagging feeling that something is wrong and/or suboptimal hurting your musical enjoyment. Return the turntable if you can or sell it. Buy som records instead and enjoy the music.

El Mero Mero wrote: ↑2021-06-15 08:58 Hello BSilviuLu,

You are obviously not happy with your LP12. Unfortunately I do not think you can salvage this situation. There will always be a nagging feeling that something is wrong and/or suboptimal hurting your musical enjoyment. Return the turntable if you can or sell it. Buy som records instead and enjoy the music.

I agree. 100%. Return the disappointing LP12 for a full refund or sell it for as much money as possible.

Buy more music.

I'd also add that if BSilviuLuc comes across something that he is confident he could sell on for a profit (even if it's only a very small profit) that it would make sense to buy it. If it looks like it would have a reasonable chance of sounding better than what he already has.

There is, for example plenty of stuff sold on ebay in the EU that would have a very good chance of improving the sound of his system. A Rega 3, for example, should be easy to beat for under 1000 euros.

When it comes to speakers, the big factor in getting better sound for reasonable money is in how big and how unfashionable looking you are prepared to go.
The ATC SCM11's are extremely easy to beat. I heard them at a bake off about 3 years ago. They were being used with a £3500 Hegel amplifier. They sounded worse than £1800 worth of AVI ADM 10 actives with a sub-woofer. Which in turn sounded worse than a £600 used EV Sentry III with Creek CAS4040 combination. I suspect that the Hegel was better than the Creek amp in hi-fi terms. The Creek is quite a hissy amp (as befits its' ultra budget status). But from a tunedem point of view the Creek is at least on a par with the Hegel and the EV Sentry III's totally obliterated the ATC 11's in every way, hi-fi and tunedem. At the expense of the EV's being big and ugly.

lindsayt wrote: ↑2021-06-15 09:22

El Mero Mero wrote: ↑2021-06-15 08:58 Hello BSilviuLu,

You are obviously not happy with your LP12. Unfortunately I do not think you can salvage this situation. There will always be a nagging feeling that something is wrong and/or suboptimal hurting your musical enjoyment. Return the turntable if you can or sell it. Buy som records instead and enjoy the music.

I agree. 100%. Return the disappointing LP12 for a full refund or sell it for as much money as possible.

Buy more music.

I'd also add that if BSilviuLuc comes across something that he is confident he could sell on for a profit (even if it's only a very small profit) that it would make sense to buy it. If it looks like it would have a reasonable chance of sounding better than what he already has.

There is, for example plenty of stuff sold on ebay in the EU that would have a very good chance of improving the sound of his system. A Rega 3, for example, should be easy to beat for under 1000 euros.

When it comes to speakers, the big factor in getting better sound for reasonable money is in how big and how unfashionable looking you are prepared to go.

I'm not planning to sell my LP12. I'll try another amplifier. The thing is, I tried a different phono stage, and more or less, the sound quality was the same. So, maybe, just maybe, the amplifier is not able to cope with my LP12 + phono stage output somehow. I'm not sure, but worth a try. Also I will visit my dealer to have my turntable checked.
Another thing I consider: Maybe I'll try to have the Adikt mounted on my Rega Planar 3. If it sounds much better => my LP12 is faulty.

BSilviuLuc wrote: ↑2021-06-15 09:34

lindsayt wrote: ↑2021-06-15 09:22

El Mero Mero wrote: ↑2021-06-15 08:58 Hello BSilviuLu,

You are obviously not happy with your LP12. Unfortunately I do not think you can salvage this situation. There will always be a nagging feeling that something is wrong and/or suboptimal hurting your musical enjoyment. Return the turntable if you can or sell it. Buy som records instead and enjoy the music.

I agree. 100%. Return the disappointing LP12 for a full refund or sell it for as much money as possible.

Buy more music.

I'd also add that if BSilviuLuc comes across something that he is confident he could sell on for a profit (even if it's only a very small profit) that it would make sense to buy it. If it looks like it would have a reasonable chance of sounding better than what he already has.

There is, for example plenty of stuff sold on ebay in the EU that would have a very good chance of improving the sound of his system. A Rega 3, for example, should be easy to beat for under 1000 euros.

When it comes to speakers, the big factor in getting better sound for reasonable money is in how big and how unfashionable looking you are prepared to go.

I'm not planning to sell my LP12. I'll try another amplifier. The thing is, I tried a different phono stage, and more or less, the sound quality was the same. So, maybe, just maybe, the amplifier is not able to cope with my LP12 + phono stage output somehow. I'm not sure, but worth a try. Also I will visit my dealer to have my turntable checked.
Another thing I consider: Maybe I'll try to have the Adikt mounted on my Rega Planar 3. If it sounds much better => my LP12 is faulty.

It is your system and your money. And you are entirely entitled to do whatever you want with them.

I would however feel a little bit guilty if I didn't pass on some of the results of my listening tests, that are of most relevance to your system.

And I would also feel guilty if I didn't mention "Sunken cost fallacy".
And keeping your mind open. And taking an experimental, survival of the fittest approach to improving your hi-fi.

hey lindsay its obviously a nice balance to have someone who has a different opinion. But your recommendations have an issue you mostly compare new bought products (Linn Majik LP12) to used products for the reason of value for money. That is not a fair apples to apples comparison. You can either compare used products to each other or new products to each other.

In this case you have the opinion the new bought LP12 should be sold even though everyone else has the opinion that the LP12 is a musical and capable device.
I have the experience the LP12 performance can vary a lot depending on how good the setup was made and I think that is also the problem here.
I wouldnt recommend to try a new amp I would rather first try to improve the LP12 setup. There is lots of information here in this forum. As a turntable owner without a capable dealer close buy it is important to somehow develop own skills. An investment into a Linn jig is not much more than a pair of Linn interconnects but can change your LP12 experience completely. Some other tools are cheap on Amazon or Ebay like a Linn Tonarm alignment tool or a tonarm hight tool.

Guys,

For sure I don't want to raise flames or provoke hard feelings. Just assuming that my lp12 is perfectly set, it is possible that my rather old Revox B250 to "strangulate" the musical performance?
Borrowing an amplifier shouldn't be much of an hassle.

The dealer assures me and he swears that my turntable was perfectly set. He said that he used all the tools to align and set the tonearm like Kinky tool.

Of course, I'm not 100% sure that my turntable is perfectly set. But, again, assuming that is, I'm wondering if is possible that my amplifier "strangulate" the musical performance. Could it be the bottleneck in my system?

It's certainly possible, that the Revox holds the performance of your LP12 back. In your shoes I would definitely try to borrow a more musical amp, just to be sure.
Is the bounce perfect on your LP12?

Tendaberry wrote: ↑2021-06-15 11:46 It's certainly possible, that the Revox holds the performance of your LP12 back. In your shoes I would definitely try to borrow a more musical amp, just to be sure.
Is the bounce perfect on your LP12?

Having multiple videos on youtube as a reference, I would say that pretty much the bounce is perfect.
I'll try to make a video later.