Down-grading, VM95E, Linn LP12 question, etc.

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rwboyer
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Down-grading, VM95E, Linn LP12 question, etc.

Post by rwboyer »

A few months ago I picked up a BARGAIN TT for next to nothing - 10 bucks. It seemed to be broken in that the platter rocked back and forth with the lightest touch. I thought I might be able to repair it (which I did and although it was a pain in the A$$ it turned out to be 3 tiny screws that wiggled loose under a control circuit for the DD motor NOT anything serious)

The TT was a Realistic LAB-400 with original Shure M91-something-or-other variant and original Shure 8X stylus, played a record... sounded okay but it was clear the stylus needed replacement. After looking around for an actual equivalent or better than the Shure 8X (new 3rd party or NOS, etc) the price was about the same as a AT VM95E. I had the old version of that way back with my first "real" TT back in the early '80's, sounded fine then even with way better hearing so I went with that.

Fast forward - I intended to give the reconditioned/setup turntable to my daughter as she has kind of dabbled with vinyl but her record player is one of those atrocities that sounds like the record player (or worse) than I had when I was 4 years old.

Ummm... the LAB-400 is still here, I've not given it to her because it SOUNDS great with the new cartridge... on the same system as my WAY WAY WAY more expensive and supposedly "better" TT and far far more expensive cartridge (no names as it's not important). I've always loved my music and put a reasonable amount of cash into listening equipment (nothing crazy and definitely nothing that didn't actually sound great compared to what I was using at the time... I am pragmatic in that regard - I judge things by how they sound more than acclaim or lots of made up words).

I do intend on giving it to her but I can't until I figure out how this cheap cartridge an basically free TT sound better than what I am using or even my alternate (which could be described as similar to my primary TT) yes, it sounds better than both of them.

So here's the question...

I had a lot of fun figuring out and fixing the simple problem with the LAB-400. My current TT's are kind of expensive with expensive cartridges and styli... I am thinking of ditching them and starting over with something that costs a bit less that sounds at least as good as this LAB-400...

Here's my crazy thought of the moment.

- Sell both of my other TT's (One high end Rega, One lower end VPI)
- Buy a used/older Linn LP12 (with an older tone arm as well, nothing I'd pay "extra" for right this moment, a who cares cartridge as well) something basic that works and sounds good right now with not a ton of upgrades as I am not at all familiar with these.
- Stick a VM95E on it

Play with things until it sounds as good as this LAB 400 (which I assume can be done without breaking the bank/spending less than I sold my other TT's for) and go from there.

Is this a REALLY bad idea? The only thing I know about the LP12 is the typical non-Linn owner which is they are "fiddly" and take a lot of care and feeding (which I doubt relative to anything else given they are relatively simple - my assessment is that owners tend to fiddle with them more via replacing lots and lots of things that most TT owners wouldn't bother or contemplate).

Ps I have a couple phono ams one is a Lejonklou the others are about the same caliber just different, I could sell at least one of three as well.

Thanks

Ps. I ended up here as there was a very very long thread I found when searching for anyone else that was gobsmacked with the VM95E compared to far more exotic/expensive cartridges...
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markiteight
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Re: Down-grading, VM95E, Linn LP12 question, etc.

Post by markiteight »

Welcome to the forum!

That is a REALLY good idea! Even the most basic LP12 will absolutely annihilate a Radio Shack direct drive table. Just keep in mind the LP12 is a precision instrument, and like all precision instruments its performance relies on proper setup. If you purchase a used deck from a non-Linn dealer, factor a trip to your local Linn specialist for proper setup into your cost. A well set up LP12 with the AT cartridge will be a delight to your ears.
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Re: Down-grading, VM95E, Linn LP12 question, etc.

Post by rwboyer »

markiteight wrote: 2021-01-11 23:07 Welcome to the forum!

That is a REALLY good idea! Even the most basic LP12 will absolutely annihilate a Radio Shack direct drive table. Just keep in mind the LP12 is a precision instrument, and like all precision instruments its performance relies on proper setup. If you purchase a used deck from a non-Linn dealer, factor a trip to your local Linn specialist for proper setup into your cost. A well set up LP12 with the AT cartridge will be a delight to your ears.
Thanks for the reply...

I would "assume" any properly setup high end TT would be "better" than the LAB-400 and I would DEFINITELY have an LP12 looked at by someone that knew what they were looking at as I have zero experience with them.

Just one clarification... When you said "that's a great idea" did you mean:

1. An LP12 in general or...
2. Starting over was a great idea or...
3. The VM95E was a great idea?

I kind of was assuming my current $2000 TT (Marantz TT-15 which is actually a clearaudio I think, and yes it's setup correctly and sounds good) would slaughter the LAB-400 with a $40-$60 cartridge and stylus... which was what prompted me to considering this previously crazy idea.
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Re: Down-grading, VM95E, Linn LP12 question, etc.

Post by markiteight »

rwboyer wrote: 2021-01-11 23:20 I would "assume" any properly setup high end TT would be "better" than the LAB-400 and I would DEFINITELY have an LP12 looked at by someone that knew what they were looking at as I have zero experience with them.
Not necessarily! There are a lot of products that are highly regarded in the audiophile community that, when it comes down to actually playing music are really quite poor.
rwboyer wrote: 2021-01-11 23:20 Just one clarification... When you said "that's a great idea" did you mean:

1. An LP12 in general or...
2. Starting over was a great idea or...
3. The VM95E was a great idea?
All of the above! That was a direct reply to your question, "Is this a REALLY bad idea?"
rwboyer wrote: 2021-01-11 23:20 I kind of was assuming my current $2000 TT (Marantz TT-15 which is actually a clearaudio I think, and yes it's setup correctly and sounds good) would slaughter the LAB-400 with a $40-$60 cartridge and stylus... which was what prompted me to considering this previously crazy idea.
Keep in mind that price does not always equate to performance, unless the product was designed using the Tune Method (and even then there are exceptions) like the LP12 and its various OEM upgrades.

Also remember source first! Within the scope of a record player that means the cartridge is the least important component. An excellent 'table can make a cheap cartridge sound amazing, but a high end cartridge cannot elevate the performance of a poor 'table. Given that, your plan to get a basic LP12, have it tuned and set up properly and fitted with a cheap but excellent 'cart is a good'n.

WRT the LP12 being "fiddly", once it's set up, installed, and leveled on a good support it's about as set-it-and-forget-it as any manual turntable. It'll benefit from an occasional tune-up, just as any precision instrument would, but that's what your friendly local Linn dealer is for.
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Re: Down-grading, VM95E, Linn LP12 question, etc.

Post by OscarH »

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Always very interesting to hear when people find bliss (or something approaching it) in modest products.

Just a question as to your current turntables, as I can't quite get my head around which units it is you find this LAB-400 to beat. You mention a "high end Rega", a "lower end VPI" and a "Marantz TT15" which does seem to add up to three rather than two?
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Re: Down-grading, VM95E, Linn LP12 question, etc.

Post by sktn77a »

markiteight wrote: 2021-01-11 23:07 Even the most basic LP12 will absolutely annihilate a Radio Shack direct drive table.
So should the Rega/VPI.

OP: you might want to try the AT VM95E in the Rega/VPI to see if that's the primary factor in your preference. An LP12 is a wonderful turntable (I've owned on for 40 years) but listen before you make an big decisions.
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Re: Down-grading, VM95E, Linn LP12 question, etc.

Post by V.A.MKD »

Hi and Welcome,
Great that you start with Source first ... LP12. Go and read here on the forum everything about LP12, set-up TT using experience of the Masters here they the best.
Use Tune Method for evaluation on whatever change you make and you will go forward with musicality, enjoying your music and happiness ...
Music First ...
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