Spannko wrote: ↑2022-03-11 13:06 I’ve never noticed a Spotify update.

For MacOS are about two new versions a month.

Last afternoon I did a bit of demo with Spotify vs Qobuz. The system is a KDRS/1 (saving for a Källa), Boazu 1.1 into Jern ds14 with rel sub. The system plays extremely well together, I think. It outplayed my 308 (modified with plywood) same streamer with Kikkin 1.0. I will try to write about that demo when I have time. For me, Boazu and Jern seems made for each other. A Scandinavian marriage made in heaven.
Anyway, first of was Rickie Lee Jones with her excellent first album. Here, on my setup, I found qobuz little more musical. The band seemed to play more coherent and together. Nuances of instruments came better through. This was both on track 1 and 3. The bass player played a little more clearer, easier to follow. I then played my new playlist of Swedish genius and the tragically late E.S.T. The difference was not as pronounced. Perhaps Spotify the musicians let them selves go a little more in a less controlled way. But then came the turning point for me. I played FleetwoodMac and Dreams (my all time west coast rock song)(Sorry for the hifi-music, guys. I Usually play a great variety of music and not hifi-music). With Spotify the power and thrust on the bass-drum was much more out of control in a good way. With Qobuz it was if the band had just been at a British tea-party and then gone on stage. With Spotify it was at if the musician had prepared back-stage with all the usual joy and prescriptions of that time. The Qobuz is also supposed to be HD. I ll stick with Spotify, more live and less studio in my system.
Fred

lejonklou wrote: ↑2022-03-11 13:24 No. If there have been any differences during the last 6 months, they've been too small for me to notice.

My reference song for comparing new Spotify versions is Anette Askvik "Liberty". I think new versions are a little bit better than the former ones. The latest version 1.1.81.604 is very musical.

Fred11 wrote: ↑2022-03-28 10:52 Last afternoon I did a bit of demo with Spotify vs Qobuz. The system is a KDRS/1 (saving for a Källa), Boazu 1.1 into Jern ds14 with rel sub. The system plays extremely well together, I think. It outplayed my 308 (modified with plywood) same streamer with Kikkin 1.0. I will try to write about that demo when I have time. For me, Boazu and Jern seems made for each other. A Scandinavian marriage made in heaven.

Fred,
thanks for sharing.
I am just wondering as the Jerns are quite expensive if staying with 308 is a nice solution for liberating funds towards Källa. I mean Källa is just a little bit higher in the hierarchy than speakers. What do you think?

Hi Matthias!
Good idea, but the misses and myself love the design of both Boazu and Jerns, and overtall sound in this setup was that much better to listen to. More musical and relaxing.
Strange, but true for me. I really love the Boazu. Could be with a better pre and a better placement I would have preferred the 308. Now I am selling the lp12…

Nice stands for the Jerns!

I’m sorry your 308 mod’s didn’t work out for you Fred11, Kudos for trying though!

I think the very low height above the floor ruins the 308 performance. And the corner position is not good either. I find them very sensitive to precise positioning.

I should try the 308 on stands and further out. Just enjoying Jern and Boazu so much at the moment.
F

ChrBea wrote: ↑2021-07-08 15:32 Even if you have Spotify Connect set to the highest quality, I am not sure that you will get the best available quality on a Linn streamer, as the maximum audio quality in the configuration (at least in the latest version for the Klimax DS) lists as maximum: high (320 kbit/s). The display shows CD quality, but I guess that's not really true

The 320kbps Ogg Vorbis will be decoded in the Spotify app to a 16/44 stream. The Linn DS sees this 16/44 stream and shows in the display CD quality.
Maybe the improving of the algorithms of this decoding in the app is one of the reasons that Spotify sounds now better than in the past.

Matthias wrote: ↑2022-08-09 12:45 The 320kbps Ogg Vorbis will be decoded in the Spotify app to a 16/44 stream. The Linn DS sees this 16/44 stream and shows in the display CD quality.

However, it is still lossy, going from 320kps Ogg Vorbis to 16/44

quinn_t wrote: ↑2022-09-21 02:02 However, it is still lossy, going from 320kps Ogg Vorbis to 16/44

Yes, but most if not all other streaming services do use FLAC (16/44 or higher) and FLAC does not seem to be a very good sounding format (at least in comparison to WAV)
Ogg Vorbis (which seems to be a good sounding one) can go up to 500kbps...

matthias wrote: ↑2022-09-21 04:44

quinn_t wrote: ↑2022-09-21 02:02 However, it is still lossy, going from 320kps Ogg Vorbis to 16/44

Yes, but most if not all other streaming services do use FLAC (16/44 or higher) and FLAC does not seem to be a very good sounding format (at least in comparison to WAV)
Ogg Vorbis (which seems to be a good sounding one) can go up to 500kbps...

I am not entirely clear as to why FLAC is not a good sounding format in comparison to WAV? Both are simply different ways to compress music data, same like zip or gzip, or 7-zip for compressing computer data files. Maybe WAV is better for some older generation of DACs, like Naim DACs because of decompressing WAV data is more efficient on these DACs.

quinn_t wrote: ↑2022-09-21 05:44 I am not entirely clear as to why FLAC is not a good sounding format in comparison to WAV? Both are simply different ways to compress music data, same like zip or gzip, or 7-zip for compressing computer data files. Maybe WAV is better for some older generation of DACs, like Naim DACs because of decompressing WAV data is more efficient on these DACs.

With clips comparing FLAC vs WAV I found WAV superior.
Comparing Spotify 320 vs Qobuz 16/44 or higher is interesting. I compared recently "Kind of Blue" versions of Spotify and Qobuz and found the Spotify "1959" version the most musical sounding one. So there might be something more important than the resolution of the files.

“So there might be something more important than the resolution of the files.”

Definitely, although I’ve no idea what it may be. Despite being only 320k resolution, when played through a Källa, Spotify is capable of old skool LP12 musicality, which is, as far as I know, a first for a digital streamer.

Spannko wrote: ↑2022-09-21 08:38 “So there might be something more important than the resolution of the files.”

Definitely, although I’ve no idea what it may be. Despite being only 320k resolution, when played through a Källa, Spotify is capable of old skool LP12 musicality, which is, as far as I know, a first for a digital streamer.

Yes, there are several parameters that are more important than the resolution of the file.

Without going too far into details, I can say that what really helped us understand and make progress was to look at the entire chain of digital reproduction, from the static file to the analogue out of the DAC, and treat the whole process as if it was analogue.

When you do that, you find there are certain things that shouldn’t matter in a digital context (like the waveform or the compression ratio) but actually do when reproducing music. And things that ought to be crucial (like the digital resolution) that turn out to be less important than anticipated.

My programmer started saying “analyse it as if it was an LP12” many years ago and at first I thought it was just a reference to an iconic product. But the more we worked, the more the metaphor made sense to me. There’s a motor, a paced forward motion, a converter, multiple layers of isolation, tight versus loose coupling between parts, free movement in certain directions, restricted movement in others, a chain of events that is easy to get wrong and a hierarchy of parts and functions.

320 Ogg Vorbis isn’t better than 16/44, but 320 Ogg Vorbis done right is better than 16/44 done wrong.

Thanks for the explanation Fredrik, particularly the last sentence:

320 Ogg Vorbis isn’t better than 16/44,

I wonder if this means that you’ve been experimenting and that some day we’ll be able to play our CD collections at an even higher quality than we’re currently achieving via Spotify? 🤞

lejonklou wrote: ↑2022-09-21 14:17 320 Ogg Vorbis isn’t better than 16/44, but 320 Ogg Vorbis done right is better than 16/44 done wrong.

Well said, thanks @lejonklou.

I had a friend over and we tested qobuz and Spotify against Watch other again. This time it was Jern 12WS Boazu Källa. I wonder why some records are ridiculously better on Spotify. One example is Talk Talk with the opener ‘Happiness is easy’. It is such a big difference. Rickie Lee Jones first record feels a little better on qobuz, perhaps. It feels like qobuz in some records really cheats or uses compressed copies?
F

There are rumors that Spotify will launch SPOTIFY PLATINUM for 20 USD/Euro per month which will include streaming in CD quality or even higher.

Qobuz is 14/month €

Matteo wrote: ↑2022-10-20 11:45 Qobuz is 14/month €

Yes, I use it with the "old" Audirvana and it sounds good.

Fred11 wrote: ↑2022-10-19 20:08 I had a friend over and we tested qobuz and Spotify against Watch other again. This time it was Jern 12WS Boazu Källa. I wonder why some records are ridiculously better on Spotify. One example is Talk Talk with the opener ‘Happiness is easy’. It is such a big difference. Rickie Lee Jones first record feels a little better on qobuz, perhaps. It feels like qobuz in some records really cheats or uses compressed copies?
F

This is an interesting one. In contrast to most others on here I've been sticking to Qobuz, occasionally dipping into Spotify to do the odd comparison. I've never thought Spotify was significantly better (if at all). I tried this Talk Talk track and perhaps marginally preferred Spotify but not enough to worry. Were you comparing exactly the same versions - there are remixes? I was comparing the 1997 remix which also had very different volume levels on Qobuz and Spotify (plus Qobuz was 96/24), so perhaps not the best comparison as difficult to do it exactly.

Your suggestion about Qobuz "cheating" doesn't make any sense. What evidence do you have? It's Spotify that compressing the audio!

I was just so perplexed by the difference, so cheat was perhaps a bit over the top. I have no idea, and am only interested as evidence a nothing else. Like I wrote it is just so strange with the unevenness of the recordings and that the quality varies so much. Some Qobuz is really good, but like Fredrik wrote earlier in this thread, Spotify still seems to get more records musical.

Has Qobuz gotten better?
I got a one month free trial of qobuz, and for fun tried some songs again. I know I just wrote about how I found Spotify more musical. This was especially evident on some tracks, like Talk talk`s Happiness is easy (I think it is more than only higher level, the musical drive is more pronounced and the interplay of instruments easier to follow).
Testing today this song was still better on Spotify, but almost every other song on Qobuz sounds more solid and are musically easier to follow. The system is as follows - Amplifi Uniti HD - 108t - Källa (Blue jean cable) - Silver - Boazu -Jern 14 - rep sub.
Here is the list:
Air- Alone in Kyoto
AIr - Modular Mix
Frank Ocean - Thinking about you
Frank Ocean - Nikes
Cleo Sol - 23
D´angelo - Cruisin
D´angelo - Lady
Prince - Sign O Times
Jethro Tull - BOuree
Sophie Zelmani - Composing
Vince Guaraldi Trio- My little Drume
Richard Hamilton - Mama Knew

(Lots of Neo Sould today, for some reason).
Bugge Wesseltoft - Snowing on my piano (Fantastic record for Christmas calm) is for me better on Spotify.
I think the music is more profound and solid, easier to follow like a nice Sondek upgrade, perhaps like Armageddon to Lingo 4? I wonder if Qobuz has been upgraded in some way? Or perhaps there is something I am missing? Would be nice to hear others impression to.
Merry Christmas!
F