Streaming service

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Re: Streaming service

Post by lejonklou »

Matteo wrote: 2021-04-20 06:04In Qobuz, the cache setting affects the sound.
OK! Which cache setting should I use?
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Re: Streaming service

Post by Matteo »

Here is a screenshot of my desktop app settings (the cash has to be cleared frequently); you can also play with the buffer size ...

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Re: Qobuz vs. Spotify

Post by u252agz »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-04-20 03:03
matthias wrote: 2021-04-17 15:37 Fredrik,

now as Qobuz is available in Sweden would you like to try it and comment on it?
Much appreciated :-)
Hi Matt!

I have now tested Qobuz and I'm slightly disappointed.

I have compared quite a few albums and tracks using Spotify and Qobuz. With Qobuz, the sound is more "clean", while with Spotify it's a little thicker and more dense. Perhaps this difference is due to Qobuz using 16/44.1 and Spotify being compressed.

But there's also another difference. With Qobuz, the musical timing is less precise than with Spotify. There's like a digital signature with Qobuz that makes sounds separate instead of coming together. The result is a lack of emotional connection. Spotify might fault in the opposite way, being more dense and pushing things together instead of separating them. But it's still easier to understand and become gripped by a completely unknown track with Spotify than with Qobuz. Likely this is due to how they deliver the data, something that we have found far more important than the actual resolution of the data being transferred.

We have compared other streaming services as well. Spotify wins over Apple Music and most of the time over Youtube Music (premium).

If there are any specific settings in the Qobuz app that I need to set, I'd be happy if you could share them and I'll give it another try.

All comparisons were done using Källa.

After reading this - I tried Qobuz vs Spotify again , having done this last year, when I decided that there was not much in it musically but that Qobuz was better on the Hi fi Front.

Yesterday - Spotify was much more musical than Qobuz , so much so that the Hi Fi parameters were irrelevant.

Not sure whether something has changed in the last 12 months with Qobuz or whether I just got it wrong last year.

I am definitely going to keep Soptify beyond the first months free trial for a more extended listen - the only problem with it is that it does not work as well with Kazoo and one has to use the Spotify app, which for some reason does not recognise my two streamers upstairs. It picks up the 4 Sky q boxes which is of no use whatsoever!

At times I really hate the world of digital music
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Re: Streaming service

Post by PetterS »

In Spotify following settings are essential:
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Re: Qobuz vs. Spotify

Post by Charlie1 »

u252agz wrote: 2021-04-21 08:58 the only problem with it is that it does not work as well with Kazoo and one has to use the Spotify app, which for some reason does not recognise my two streamers upstairs. It picks up the 4 Sky q boxes which is of no use whatsoever!
We occasionally get the same issue and have to reboot the BT router. We don't have a dedicated switch.
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Re: Qobuz vs. Spotify

Post by matthias »

u252agz wrote: 2021-04-21 08:58 Yesterday - Spotify was much more musical than Qobuz , so much so that the Hi Fi parameters were irrelevant.
Not sure whether something has changed in the last 12 months with Qobuz or whether I just got it wrong last year.
Maybe Spotify got better.

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Re: Streaming service

Post by Teemu »

Why use Qobuz own application when Linn DSM player directly supports the service, this way the sound quality is much better than in other ways.

Spotify will never sounds better than Qobuz and that's fact.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by kallesprätt »

I now get 16 bit 44.1 KHz in Volumio when using Spotify connect.
Is Spotify already Spotify hifi?

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Re: Streaming service

Post by Spannko »

Teemu wrote: 2021-04-21 17:47 Why use Qobuz own application when Linn DSM player directly supports the service, this way the sound quality is much better than in other ways.

Spotify will never sounds better than Qobuz and that's fact.
Linn Docs mentions that the DS takes its feed directly from the Spotify servers, just as it does with Qobuz.

What makes you think that Spotify will never sound better than Qobuz, and do you have any evidence to support this fact
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Re: Streaming service

Post by Teemu »

Spotify use lossy Ogg Vorbis format and Qobuz use losless Flac. Qobuz hires files further widen the gap in favor of qobuz. Just listen, i have both Spotify premium and Qobuz and listen them Kdsm Katalyst, straight to streamer.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by Matteo »

Teemu wrote: 2021-04-22 10:08 Spotify use lossy Ogg Vorbis format and Qobuz use losless Flac. Qobuz hires files further widen the gap in favor of qobuz. Just listen, i have both Spotify premium and Qobuz and listen them Kdsm Katalyst, straight to streamer.
Same experience for me with an ADSM/3 (Kat).

The differences are slight using their desktop apps on my Win10 PC tough.

M.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by matthias »

Matteo wrote: 2021-04-22 10:17 Same experience for me with an ADSM/3 (Kat).

The differences are slight using their desktop apps on my Win10 PC tough.
AFAIK, the Linn Spotify implementation seems to be not so good. Fredrik prefers Spotify to Qobuz with Källa.

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Re: Streaming service

Post by lejonklou »

Matteo wrote: 2021-04-20 14:55 Here is a screenshot of my desktop app settings (the cash has to be cleared frequently); you can also play with the buffer size...
Thanks Matteo!

I played with the settings in Qobuz yesterday and it seemed the music improved slightly with everything set to zero.

I then compared a couple of tracks with Spotify and the gap seemed smaller than before. I still found it a little easier to understand and connect to the songs in Spotify, though.
Teemu wrote: 2021-04-21 17:47Spotify will never sounds better than Qobuz and that's fact.
You need to get out of your megapixel mindset and start listening without prejudice.
matthias wrote: 2021-04-22 10:57 AFAIK, the Linn Spotify implementation seems to be not so good. Fredrik prefers Spotify to Qobuz with Källa.
Anthony and u252agz just posted (above) that they also prefer Spotify to Quboz. I think they both use KDS, but I'm not sure exactly how they do it.

Antony and u252agz, could you share some details?
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Re: Streaming service

Post by anthony »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-04-22 12:13
Matteo wrote: 2021-04-20 14:55 Here is a screenshot of my desktop app settings (the cash has to be cleared frequently); you can also play with the buffer size...
Thanks Matteo!

I played with the settings in Qobuz yesterday and it seemed the music improved slightly with everything set to zero.

I then compared a couple of tracks with Spotify and the gap seemed smaller than before. I still found it a little easier to understand and connect to the songs in Spotify, though.
Teemu wrote: 2021-04-21 17:47Spotify will never sounds better than Qobuz and that's fact.
You need to get out of your megapixel mindset and start listening without prejudice.
matthias wrote: 2021-04-22 10:57 AFAIK, the Linn Spotify implementation seems to be not so good. Fredrik prefers Spotify to Qobuz with Källa.
Anthony and u252agz just posted (above) that they also prefer Spotify to Quboz. I think they both use KDS, but I'm not sure exactly how they do it.

Antony and u252agz, could you share some details?
Hello Fredrik,

I've always rated Spotify, when one of my customers relayed this info to another dealer, he suggested my customer should find another dealer!
I use Spotify direct from a Netgear router, via microconnect cat 6 to my one year old kdsm.
I find qobuz a bit boring in comparison, and find my mind wandering, in fact I tend to gravitate to tidal over qobuz, so that's all my street credibility just gone out of the window.
Definitely not attached the same accolade to 24 bit qobuz as some do. I see the analogy to special lp pressings, which invariably are worse.

Probably would add I found Spotify improved substantially with katalyst, but u252agz is finding the same with non katalyst.
I do avoid most remaster.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by Teemu »

Teemu wrote: 2021-04-21 17:47Spotify will never sounds better than Qobuz and that's fact.
lejonklou wrote: 2021-04-22 12:13You need to get out of your megapixel mindset and start listening without prejudice
I think you underestimate others as a listener now.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by anthony »

An example of good qobuz and 24 bit is zero 7 track called swimmers, perhaps a lot depends on how and when the data has been uploaded.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by u252agz »

Thanks Fredrik


I use the streaming services straight from the Netgear switch via micro connect 6 cables to KDS2/Monos/242s or to the kitchen sneaky/Rega Brio/Ninkas

With both devices - Spotify is at the moment leagues ahead of Qobuz in musicality, and as Anthony says, Qobuz sounds quite boring in comparison.

I’m not sure what has happened in the last year as this definitely was not my impression when I tested Tidal/Spotify and Qobuz 12 months ago. Then I thought Qobuz was as musical as Spotify but with better sound ( Tidal was the least musical by some margin)

I don’t find Spotify as well integrated with Kazoo though- it always sends me to the app which by default plays music through the phone or iPad until you select the streamer on the icon. Now it is recognising 3 of my 4 streamers but not the fourth one .

With Qobuz all streamers are always available and one can set the default streamer with each device.

At the moment - I will put up with the minor hassles of the Spotify app to get significantly better music.

One of the many problems with Digital music is that one can spend vast amounts of money on streamers, but the source feed ( NAS drive/Streaming service) seems to be as important, if not more to the musicality.

It drives me up the wall at times and makes me think that perhaps a good CD player , removed from any network/streaming issues may be the answer to stress free digital music. If my Marantz CD 6007 is anything to go by, a high end CD player could be the final solution .
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Re: Streaming service

Post by springwood64 »

u252agz wrote: 2021-04-22 13:24
One of the many problems with Digital music is that one can spend vast amounts of money on streamers, but the source feed ( NAS drive/Streaming service) seems to be as important, if not more to the musicality.

It drives me up the wall at times
+1
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Re: Streaming service

Post by PetterS »

Ready for a test of the debated streaming services? The set-up is: fiber to Media Converter, MC to Router; Router to Switch Netgear GS108v4, Switch to Primare NP5 (all ethernet cables are Premium Belden 1303E CATSNAKE Cat6a), Primare5 to Primare DAC NP30 conn. w. Linn digital 75 ohm, Np30 to Boazu w. Linn Silver, Boazu to NINKA w polymer base conn. w. Lejonklou soldered split K400. The streams are started with phone (S10e) with native apps through Prisma app, and recorded with the same phone. A tips is to download the files before listening. Its windy outside and a dog in the house which can be heard by the sharp-eared (all of you with other words...)

Rond 1
A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y4jz9dx2smjib ... A.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/31xl3zxbjycxo ... B.mp4?dl=0

Rond 2
A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8kl0n48ywpker ... A.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgdifjyd6thh3 ... B.mp4?dl=0
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Re: Streaming service

Post by beck »

Really interesting PetterS. Great clips you have made.

I have formed my opinion but will keep it for myself for now.

I suspect this might create some controversy as it already has done on this forum (in words). :-)
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Re: Streaming service

Post by springwood64 »

Great music, and my wife agrees. Is it Barb Jungr? Played on my phone without downloading the file.

Rond 1: Enjoyed both clips but preferred A. Initial response to B was pretty negative but on second listening I warmed to it.

Rond 2: Gosh! Really disliked A. Sounded discordant and teeth grating (sorry!). Preferred B but was much happier to go back to either clip of Rond 1
Last edited by springwood64 on 2021-04-22 17:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by David Neel »

I find A more engaging, B more hifi. Rond 1.
Rond 2 I still prefer A, it's not great, but a bit more coherent.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by ThomasOK »

springwood64 wrote: 2021-04-22 17:20
Great music, and my wife agrees. Is it Barb Jungle? Played on my phone without downloading the file.

Rond 1: Enjoyed both clips but preferred A. Initial response to B was pretty negative but on second listening I warmed to it.

Rond 2: Gosh! Really disliked A. Sounded discordant and teeth grating (sorry!). Preferred B but was much happier to go back to either clip of Rond 1
I didn't have the teeth grating problem but I did find the B clip more musical in both Rond 1 and 2. On Rond 2 clip A seemed a bit more Hi-Fi but I enjoyed the music more on B. On Rond 1 I didn't notice this and thought that both were pretty good but liked clip B better. I'll be interested to see how all this pans out as I haven't used any of the streaming services at home.
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Re: Streaming service

Post by beck »

David Neel wrote: 2021-04-22 17:30 I find A more engaging, B more hifi. Rond 1.
Rond 2 I still prefer A, it's not great, but a bit more coherent.
+1
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Re: Streaming service

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beck wrote: 2021-04-22 18:15
David Neel wrote: 2021-04-22 17:30 I find A more engaging, B more hifi. Rond 1.
Rond 2 I still prefer A, it's not great, but a bit more coherent.
+1
I agree - I prefer A in both sets of clips.
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