Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

Moderator: Staff

WheresMyNaim
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 2020-10-04 18:20

Re: More Ears Needed

Post by WheresMyNaim »

OscarH wrote: 2020-10-23 07:18
Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-10-22 22:04
OscarH wrote: 2020-10-22 18:29 The few responses on this aren’t conclusive either.
Oscar,
There is only one solid response. The other is from some wishy-washy guy In need of good ears who can't make up his mind..

When I heard clip A on my phone, I immediately thought to myself; "Nice. A 1960 Les Paul through a cranked Marshall amp." After listening further into the song through Isobariks, I recognized David Coverdale's voice and assumed this was early Whitesnake. Then I looked up Whitesnake songs and couldn't find yours. Hmmmm.

Then I looked up "The Beast", which is Bernie Marsden's Les Paul and found it is a 1959 model. Hmmm.

Whitesnake had two guitarists as well. But it sounded like Jon Lord's organ after re-listening to your clips. Double Hmmm.

That led me to this website. BINGO. This is the guitar used in the song you played; "Love Child". What sounded to me like an '80s Marshall is actually an early Hi-Watt amp.

I am a huge fan of early Deep Purple; I've probably played In Rock a thousand times. I don't even have a copy of Come Taste The Band, as I never rated it. Interestingly, I was once in a band and when we were making our first album cover, we photographed our faces through pint glasses of beer. Our album was called Come Taste The Beer.

Ron The Mon
Tommy Bolin Convert
Ron,

Very pleased to have picked a sufficiently obscure track to send you on a (re)discovery of Deep Purple’s short lived MkIV line up.

My go to album has always been Machine Head, but Smoke on the Water would have been far too obvious and using Lazy for a clip would severely challenge people’s patience.

For the Swedish forum members among us the alias ‘Tommy Bolin’ has a further 1990’s comedy connotation... which could easily be used to sidetrack to (amongst others) Cliff Burton of Metallica. Anyway...

Your favorite clip A is the interconnect you convincingly identified as “non-original”, which lost 5-0 to a very affordable QED earlier this week.

beck thus narrowly preferred the original black.

So that opens up a number of possibilities...
Maybe my QED really is very good?
Maybe my original black is very bad?
Maybe my clips are very confusing/bad?
Maybe this is another (see Karousel thread) situation where clips come up short?

To at least cover all options here’s the blind A-B (actually C-D) of the original black vs. QED.

Still the Hakai playing, but again an entirely different song to keep you all on your toes.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r76g7i5q1rjb ... QSnfa?dl=0
Lalena go to Deep Purple song here.

Bombshell, I identify as wishy washy. Disavowed normal Tune Dem™, ignored RTM's "strict" Tune Dem™ and applied authoritarian Tune Dem™.
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by Spannko »

I do not bite my thumb at you, sir, but I bite my thumb at your authoritarian tune dem!
WheresMyNaim
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 2020-10-04 18:20

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by WheresMyNaim »

Spannko wrote: 2020-10-23 20:38 I do not bite my thumb at you, sir, but I bite my thumb at your authoritarian tune dem!
Digitus impudicus to all Tune Dem™ derivatives.

Did you take photos of your original blacks?
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by Spannko »

WheresMyNaim wrote: 2020-10-23 21:19
Did you take photos of your original blacks?
I didn’t, but I’ll sort it out tomorrow.
OscarH
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 304
Joined: 2019-03-14 10:57
Location: Exile on Dane St.

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by OscarH »

beck wrote: 2020-10-23 08:03 Yes, you are right OscarH. Many different things can happen making clips. Sometimes a changed setup has to play for a while to settle and do its best. Other slight changes can also disturb the comparison.

I hear C as the original blacks and D as the QED interconnects having heard your former clips (and depending on repeated sound quality in the clips).

I prefer C here finding them slightly more open. They satisfy me musically too. D also has musical qualities I like (the vocal among other things) but compared to C slightly less open sounding.

I also find your Hakai to perform really well! :-)


....and wishy-washy as I am I think I could live with both sets of interconnects!
beck,
You’re absolutely right that C is original back and D is QED.

The non-original blacks were very new when I recorded the first set of clips. I’ve connected them again now and will give them some time.

The seller has offered a refund but for what I paid only the parcel couriers will really come out on top.

If nothing else I also have a second stereo in another room where they would be an upgrade. I actually listened to that system most of the evening yesterday as I have just been given some cds that I haven’t ripped yet and that room has the only CD player in the house. Wasn’t bad for not much more money than a GAIO...
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by beck »

Thank you OscarH.

That tells me that your clips are quite consistent in what they bring across to us listeners. :-)
Playing cd’s…………
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by Spannko »

Here’s the photo’s of my Linn Blacks.
A5578CF2-FC19-4A0D-B517-B01473589412.jpeg
F250F9A0-74E2-4428-9786-3F14214FD4A8.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
markiteight
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 834
Joined: 2012-01-13 01:50
Location: Seattle, Wa. USA

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by markiteight »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-10-23 00:06
markiteight wrote: 2020-10-21 01:37
lejonklou wrote: 2020-10-20 20:16 They are usually much too tight and need to be loosened. I do this with a pair of thin pointy pliers, which I open on the inside of the slotted barrel. There are six slots, which makes three pairs of "flaps" that I gently bend apart several times. Gently! If overdone, the metal cracks. What you want is to flex them a little, until the fitting is "just right".

There is an improvement in sound when they fit "just right". When they're too tight, the sound gets very sharp and almost distorted. When they're too loose, the sound gets distorted in a sloppy way.

The overly tight fitting is a problem because when one uses too much force connecting and disconnecting, it can crack the soldered joints between the female connector and the circuit board. It had happened a bunch of times over the years, twice on my own products.
Interesting! Do you feel this applies to the T-Kable as well? The RCAs on my T-Kable are extremely tight. I hate having to disconnect them because I feel like I'm going to rip the jacks right out of the Linto's back panel. I always figured the T-Kable was noticeably tighter than Linn's other interconnects because it handles much weaker signals.
Yes, it's very common with newer T-kables. You should loosen them up.
Too tight:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e6cjtrul2sig8 ... 3.MOV?dl=0

Just right?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/msghcjm4fqoxd ... 5.MOV?dl=0

This is a delicate procedure! I used a pair of angled snap-ring spreaders and just a light nudge was enough to relax the tension on the jacks.
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by beck »

Good work markiteight! :-)
Playing cd’s…………
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by Charlie1 »

Yeah, does seem fractionally better to my ears as well.
User avatar
Tendaberry
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 982
Joined: 2010-08-30 16:08
Location: Hamburg

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by Tendaberry »

Better to me as well.
Whatsmynaim
Active member
Active member
Posts: 198
Joined: 2019-10-29 23:55

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by Whatsmynaim »

Just right is, just right!

I got the same result when flexing the slotted barrels but used the conical part of a suitable pen that I modified.
Thanks Fredrik for informing us about this free and awesome tweak for the newer type of Linn cables!

It's like torquing, but for RCA plugs.
This makes me remember reading in the Linn forum about a tip to unscrew the plugs just a tiny bit for better sound..
WheresMyNaim
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 2020-10-04 18:20

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by WheresMyNaim »

Spannko wrote: 2020-10-26 13:09 Here’s the photo’s of my Linn Blacks.

A5578CF2-FC19-4A0D-B517-B01473589412.jpeg
F250F9A0-74E2-4428-9786-3F14214FD4A8.jpeg
Look unlikely to pass Mr. Honeywell's test. You have the proof of purchase Spannko?
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by ThomasOK »

Yep, definitely better with the not too tight plugs. You do have to be gentle. I told one customer about it a while back as he had broken a socket. He brought in his cables several months later and he had bent them out so far that they looked bent outward and the ring was barely touching the socket. I had to bend them back to have the proper contact. Luckily I was able to do it without breaking any of the ring.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by lejonklou »

Spannko wrote: 2020-10-26 13:09 Here’s the photo’s of my Linn Blacks.

A5578CF2-FC19-4A0D-B517-B01473589412.jpeg
F250F9A0-74E2-4428-9786-3F14214FD4A8.jpeg
Perfectly standard Linn Blacks, as far I can tell.

How they perform musically is partly another matter, as this thread has highlighted.
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by ThomasOK »

Yes, they do look like factory Linn Blacks to me, if possibly not quite as prettily soldered as the earlier factory one shown. On the other hand, after that extensive commentary on soldering by Ron the Mon, I am now afraid to solder any more interconnects as I certainly don't have the fancy mechanized stripping machine, etc. and doubt mine work would pass his examination. ;-)

Actually, we do stock Linn factory 1.2m Black and Silver interconnects and just keep rolls of Black and Silver wire on hand, and the appropriate RCAs, for when someone wants a non-standard length. Also, when I am making 2.48 meter split K400 for a customer I do use my personal Weller temperature-controlled soldering station with Lejonklou solder and the precise temperature that makes for the best sounding cable.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
WheresMyNaim
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 2020-10-04 18:20

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by WheresMyNaim »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-10-30 21:28
Spannko wrote: 2020-10-26 13:09 Here’s the photo’s of my Linn Blacks.

A5578CF2-FC19-4A0D-B517-B01473589412.jpeg
F250F9A0-74E2-4428-9786-3F14214FD4A8.jpeg
Perfectly standard Linn Blacks, as far I can tell.

How they perform musically is partly another matter, as this thread has highlighted.
My blacks are cut more neatly, crimped a touch better and soldered a lil more skillfully. Perhaps they varied by the individual maker/age of cables/worker tiredness etc. If I was to bet, Oscar's "dubious pair" are probably legit but custom-made by a dealership. I know many of my cable runs are custom-made from reels of legit cables by authorized installers.
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2292
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by Spannko »

WheresMyNaim wrote: 2020-10-30 17:14
Spannko wrote: 2020-10-26 13:09 Here’s the photo’s of my Linn Blacks.

A5578CF2-FC19-4A0D-B517-B01473589412.jpeg
F250F9A0-74E2-4428-9786-3F14214FD4A8.jpeg
Look unlikely to pass Mr. Honeywell's test. You have the proof of purchase Spannko?
😂😂😂
User avatar
Ron The Mon
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 301
Joined: 2014-07-17 17:17
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Take Me Through Your Universe, No One Listening Will Suspect

Post by Ron The Mon »

OscarH wrote: 2020-10-21 08:00 Seems I’ve inadvertently opened a can of worms. Well worth opening though.

[A is non-original Black, B is original Black.]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lk8ky9qh2v7i ... t1OPa?dl=0
To at least cover all options here’s the [comparison] of the original Black (C) vs. QED (D).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r76g7i5q1rjb ... QSnfa?dl=0
Oscar,
I would agree you've opened several cans of worms here. I also agree it was well worth opening on several levels.

What are you hearing at home, in your system? Original Black>QED>Fake Black? That makes no sense from your clips as they portray X>Y, Y>Z, yet Z>X; which is illogical.

More worms:
I was away the entire Summer from this Forum. While catching up on the "Playground" thread I was disappointed to find every clip deleted! The latest one was only five days old!! In my opinion, the clips should remain active at least one month. I also noticed there was contention about some clips sounding the opposite online as they do in person.

Fredrik gave some hints a while back relating to how to record clips. One was turn off all other apps and put the phone in airplane mode. I would suggest restarting the phone as well for each clip. Taking the time to listen to one's own clips to confirm before linking is also a good idea. I would suggest we find the common denominator of issues and have a "sticky" thread about it.

I also listened to several dozen different comparisons of your recent two tracks on this thread. I had many findings. Listening on Dropbox, the music always sounded better when using separate tabs for each song compared to both in the same tab. Safari browser sounds better than Mozilla which sounds better than Google Chrome. Downloading on the computer and using a separate player always sounded better than any browser using the Dropbox player. QuickTime Player sounds better than VLC.

All these comparisons were done on my Mac mini into Naim/Isobarik system.

I bring all this up and spent the time because I have no doubt in my mind your Clip A sounds better than B, regardless of player or browser used. It also has substantially more bass, which you weren't hearing in person and doesn't show up in Clip C vs. D.

I also think other comparisons needed is Dropbox vs. Apple iCloud vs. Google vs. etc. Is the issue the camera/phone or the uploading? It would be interesting to upload to various sites, then download and compare. I will try it unless someone else beats me to it.

Ron The Mon
WheresMyNaim
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 2020-10-04 18:20

Re: Take Me Through Your Universe, No One Listening Will Suspect

Post by WheresMyNaim »

Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-10-31 18:12
OscarH wrote: 2020-10-21 08:00 Seems I’ve inadvertently opened a can of worms. Well worth opening though.

[A is non-original Black, B is original Black.]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lk8ky9qh2v7i ... t1OPa?dl=0
To at least cover all options here’s the [comparison] of the original Black (C) vs. QED (D).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r76g7i5q1rjb ... QSnfa?dl=0
Oscar,
I would agree you've opened several cans of worms here. I also agree it was well worth opening on several levels.

What are you hearing at home, in your system? Original Black>QED>Fake Black? That makes no sense from your clips as they portray X>Y, Y>Z, yet Z>X; which is illogical.

More worms:
I was away the entire Summer from this Forum. While catching up on the "Playground" thread I was disappointed to find every clip deleted! The latest one was only five days old!! In my opinion, the clips should remain active at least one month. I also noticed there was contention about some clips sounding the opposite online as they do in person.

Fredrik gave some hints a while back relating to how to record clips. One was turn off all other apps and put the phone in airplane mode. I would suggest restarting the phone as well for each clip. Taking the time to listen to one's own clips to confirm before linking is also a good idea. I would suggest we find the common denominator of issues and have a "sticky" thread about it.

I also listened to several dozen different comparisons of your recent two tracks on this thread. I had many findings. Listening on Dropbox, the music always sounded better when using separate tabs for each song compared to both in the same tab. Safari browser sounds better than Mozilla which sounds better than Google Chrome. Downloading on the computer and using a separate player always sounded better than any browser using the Dropbox player. QuickTime Player sounds better than VLC.

All these comparisons were done on my Mac mini into Naim/Isobarik system.

I bring all this up and spent the time because I have no doubt in my mind your Clip A sounds better than B, regardless of player or browser used. It also has substantially more bass, which you weren't hearing in person and doesn't show up in Clip C vs. D.

I also think other comparisons needed is Dropbox vs. Apple iCloud vs. Google vs. etc. Is the issue the camera/phone or the uploading? It would be interesting to upload to various sites, then download and compare. I will try it unless someone else beats me to it.

Ron The Mon
Think Oscar's "fake" blacks might be Scotch folks take their kids to work day?

Laudable sentiments on clips. But presumably you tested the SQ using your Mac Mini. On our precious globe there's an OS called Windows that dominates PCs and 1 called Android that dominates the cell phone market.

Do you ever apologize for defamation Ron? Do you even get the urge? A PM would suffice.
Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by Defender »

Yes that discussion certainly opened a can of worms.
Thank you Ron for taking the time - I ended up looking at all my Linn Silvers and 3 of them are certainly dealer made ones.
The Blacks I bought and came in original package seem to be also not original or Linn is doing a bad job in quality control.
Most important as I understand to look at is if the screen is cut off partly and not braided all together. Sometimes its only cut off on one side and the other is fine.
One Silver had the core wires going into the connector at a almost s-curve ... soldered and than cable completely pushed to the connector side.
One Black even had one of the core wires sticking out of the solder point and touching ground!

Getting a pair of cables in original packaging from the internet/ebay doesnt mean you got a Linn factory made one!!! There is no seal on the package so how do you know if someone got a Linn factory one and sold you the others using this package as it looks more „original“ or more „new“
Would love to provide pictures but I couldn’t figure out how to attach a picture.
User avatar
El Mero Mero
Active member
Active member
Posts: 107
Joined: 2007-11-04 22:38
Location: Sweden

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by El Mero Mero »

Anyone care to share some pictures of factory soldered Linn Silvers?
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by beck »

Playing cd’s…………
User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 862
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by V.A.MKD »

Thank you Beck ...
Music First ...
Vlado
User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 862
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: Interconnects - original or not (split from Playground)

Post by V.A.MKD »

Defender wrote: 2020-11-01 12:53 Yes that discussion certainly opened a can of worms.
Thank you Ron for taking the time - I ended up looking at all my Linn Silvers and 3 of them are certainly dealer made ones.
The Blacks I bought and came in original package seem to be also not original or Linn is doing a bad job in quality control.
Most important as I understand to look at is if the screen is cut off partly and not braided all together. Sometimes its only cut off on one side and the other is fine.
One Silver had the core wires going into the connector at a almost s-curve ... soldered and than cable completely pushed to the connector side.
One Black even had one of the core wires sticking out of the solder point and touching ground!

Getting a pair of cables in original packaging from the internet/ebay doesnt mean you got a Linn factory made one!!! There is no seal on the package so how do you know if someone got a Linn factory one and sold you the others using this package as it looks more „original“ or more „new“
Would love to provide pictures but I couldn’t figure out how to attach a picture.
Thank you Ron The Mon, Defender and all other for really good posts on IC issue ...
Music First ...
Vlado
Post Reply