Tunefulness is not a New subject but

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Per A
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Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Per A »

I have been trying some amps to match my JBL4365 and I have watched loads of YouTube videos by John Darko, Steve Guttenberg and Paul McGowan. Why am I bringing that up in one sentence?
Well it’s because none of these charming knowledgeable gents speak of tunefulness ever. And yet is almost laughably easy to distinguish the amps I have tried in this respect. They may sound beautifully but as I can’t follow the tunes of Beethoven or the Rolling Stones they are out.
My now old Linn AV2250 still stands its ground.
beck
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by beck »

Reviewers like things you can “quantify” easily.

Tunefulness for lack of a better word is not easy to describe. You can have the best treble , mid and bass and still not have a tuneful setup.

The thing we all have to bring with us is that we can carefully select and setup a “cheap” system and get the most tuneful music possible.

Luckily the real happiness in listening to recorded music is within reach for all who trust their own ears and use them.
Playing cd’s…………
Charlie1
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Charlie1 »

It's hard to understand their thinking. I tried a pair of Elac Debut 6.2 speakers that Steve G and many others had raved about and they weren't anything like as enjoyable as my Katans. Of course, they offered a very good sound.

Sometimes audiophiles are criticised for not enjoying or listening to actual music but I don't think that's the case. I suspect they are just far more easily pleased in terms of musicality than us lot, and yet are very critical of the HiFi elements. Perhaps to their ears, the Elac's would have provided broadly similar tunefulness to the Katans, but would have sounded heaps better and so that's where their focus lies.

I think we all know that really poor/distorted sound will spoil musical enjoyment, so I suspect they are far more sensitive to that side of things. But like you Per, it seems the wrong way around to me.
beck wrote: 2020-09-15 08:49 Luckily the real happiness in listening to recorded music is within reach for all who trust their own ears and use them.
+1
Per A
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Per A »

It was so apparent when I swapped back to the Linn that Bill Wyman was playing was rock and roll. Stones released more fantastic live material with their reissue of Goat’s Head soup.
Robert Lake
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Robert Lake »

I like Paul. He seems honest and consistent in his views. Look at this guy who thinks he can measure amplifiers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rB2W0umdq0
FairPlayMotty
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Tunefulness, musicality etc, were in the vocabulary of some HiFI reviewers before TuneDem was trademarked by Linn. I believe the best reviewers and HiFi dealers took these as granted. I bought from two Linn dealerships and the Linn shop in Glasgow - musicality was never mentioned. The HiFi I bought before Linn existed was tuneful, as was the HiFi I bought prior to buying Linn. The boxes I returned were not - one experience of listening fatigue and they were history.

Steve G reviewed the Border Patrol DAC and used many adjectives to describe its sound but settled on analogue. The DAC uses the same DAC chips mine uses. It sounds very musical and very analogue. For me he's maybe not using the terms tunefulness or musicality but I presume it's a given for him as it was for me before TuneDem. Certainly for that DAC chip his adjectives are ones I can relate to.

Darko is all over the place for me. I rarely relate to the music he likes and very little music eludes me. Some parts of his reviews are enjoyable but the plethora of adjectives he uses leaves me thinking he's using a list of terms on a sheet of paper (I worked for an investment company that used a printed list of good, bad and neutral phrases to describe performance). Your ears and brain are the only tools you need on your HiFi journey.
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.
FairPlayMotty
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Robert Lake wrote: 2020-09-15 11:22 Look at this guy who thinks he can measure amplifiers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rB2W0umdq0
Winer is just wrong but funny to hear his confidence in everything but his ears :-)
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Tendaberry
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Tendaberry »

Per A wrote: 2020-09-15 10:07 It was so apparent when I swapped back to the Linn that Bill Wyman was playing was rock and roll. Stones released more fantastic live material with their reissue of Goat’s Head soup.
Oh yes! The live gig in Brussels rocks big time!
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Whatsmynaim »

I'm waiting for these youtubers to review Lejonklou amps. Them trying to break it down into bass, mid, treble
and tries to describe its sound. Hopefully it'll make them re-evaluate their ways of reviewing HiFi.
Not saying they can't enjoy a tuneful system though because that's built into every person since birth.
Lego
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Lego »

I find it hard to believe those YouTubers you refer to wouldn't prefer a more tuneful piece of kit if they had one in the mix.
I just don't think they've been exposed to anything tuneful .

Without deviating too much, has anyone her done tune dem comparing linn Kairn/100 and LK1/280?My memory seems to tell me the original linn amps were the most tuneful of all linn amps .
I know that tune
FairPlayMotty
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Whatsmynaim wrote: 2020-09-15 17:13 I'm waiting for these youtubers to review Lejonklou amps. Them trying to break it down into bass, mid, treble
and tries to describe its sound. Hopefully it'll make them re-evaluate their ways of reviewing HiFi.
Not saying they can't enjoy a tuneful system though because that's built into every person since birth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjNzmamqlUk

Steve Guttenberg's admission, he was truly an audiophile after buying a Linn Sondek.
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.
Spannko
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Spannko »

.......... it’s worth reminding ourselves that it’s not the most important thing. It’s the only thing!
Charlie1
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by Charlie1 »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-15 21:02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjNzmamqlUk

Steve Guttenberg's admission, he was truly an audiophile after buying a Linn Sondek.
Yes, a game changer apparantly. And the one thing he said about it was that it was so much quieter!

And now he has an SME which says it all really - no pulse left in those musicians.
FairPlayMotty
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Re: Tunefulness is not a New subject but

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-09-16 00:17
FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-15 21:02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjNzmamqlUk

Steve Guttenberg's admission, he was truly an audiophile after buying a Linn Sondek.
Yes, a game changer apparantly. And the one thing he said about it was that it was so much quieter!
Steve's not the only Stereophile reviewer with a liking for Linn and early Sondeks. I've not heard the SME turntable Guttenberg now owns but his current DAC choice tells me he likes a tune. In another video he's asked if he prefers an audiophile sound or a fun sound, No surprise, he likes a fun sound. It's worth remembering that these guys have probably never heard of TuneDem but I believe Whatsmynaim got it in one, "because that's built into every person since birth."
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.
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