Does a better system make you want to hear the same album less often?

[beck]

I am very satisfied! with my system thank you. :-)

[FairPlayMotty]

The answer Leo is very simple and Lejonklou has pointed it out before: music has direct contact to your feelings.
It does not need to be understood when performed well. It does not need to be deciphered by your brain.

If the concert was within reach from my armchair I would visit and hear it again.

When you have been given a fulfilling kiss from a woman. Do you then move away and search for a different woman to give you the next one?

The relationship between each person's neurology and music is different. There may be similarities across the population but I find it absurd to think my experience of music is the same as anyone else's. I have a very attractive and highly successful female friend who casually told me that she didn't own or play any music. I found that stunning but it illustrates an extreme case of different attitudes towards music. Assuming other people experience music in the same way as I do I believe is folly.

[beck]

+1

[lejonklou]

The answer Leo is very simple and Lejonklou has pointed it out before: music has direct contact to your feelings.
It does not need to be understood when performed well. It does not need to be deciphered by your brain.

If the concert was within reach from my armchair I would visit and hear it again.

When you have been given a fulfilling kiss from a woman. Do you then move away and search for a different woman to give you the next one?

The relationship between each person's neurology and music is different. There may be similarities across the population but I find it absurd to think my experience of music is the same as anyone else's. I have a very attractive and highly successful female friend who casually told me that she didn't own or play any music. I found that stunning but it illustrates an extreme case of different attitudes towards music. Assuming other people experience music in the same way as I do I believe is folly.

Interesting about your friend. I once met a person who said she didn't enjoy music at all. Never played it, never listened, never enjoyed it, even the slightest. That's what she claimed. It turned out to be not completely true; even though she never consciously "played" anything, she still responded to music in movies and TV series. So I think it's a very rare genetic disposition to be completely "deaf" to the emotional language of music.

On this forum, we're all musical enthusiasts. So I find this discussion rather special. One thing I don't quite get is Lego's "the brain deciphers it" analogy. Personally, I don't just decipher a musical piece - that is what I'd do if I wanted to play (some part of) it myself - I also react to it. With my body and with emotions, often unconsciously.

Once again I must refer to my professor in neurology; Jan Fagius and his book "The music of the hemispheres". There are two major strands in how the brain processes music. One is analytical and frequently used by professional musicians. They analyse what the musician is doing and exactly how it's accomplished. It's a highly specific and trainable skill.

The other strand is the non-analytical emotional appreciation of a piece. It will not notice minor mistakes or imperfections, not even the individual instruments, but instead focuses entirely on the emotional message and the whole. These two processes have been shown with MRI to take place in different parts of the brain.

My conviction, ever since I first read that book in the late 1990's, is that the Tune Method is about activating both these systems at once. In that state, you can tell better from worse - and this becomes an instant short cut to your experience with having listened to the two options for months.

[Spannko]

The answer Leo is very simple and Lejonklou has pointed it out before: music has direct contact to your feelings.
It does not need to be understood when performed well. It does not need to be deciphered by your brain.

If the concert was within reach from my armchair I would visit and hear it again.

When you have been given a fulfilling kiss from a woman. Do you then move away and search for a different woman to give you the next one?

The relationship between each person's neurology and music is different. There may be similarities across the population but I find it absurd to think my experience of music is the same as anyone else's. I have a very attractive and highly successful female friend who casually told me that she didn't own or play any music. I found that stunning but it illustrates an extreme case of different attitudes towards music. Assuming other people experience music in the same way as I do I believe is folly.

If she looked like a Warthog, would you have been as stunned?

[FairPlayMotty]

The deciphering may have some neurological support. Dr. Daniel Letvin and colleagues used MRI to study brain reaction to music.

Excerpt: "Observing 13 subjects who listened to classical music while in an M.R.I. machine, the scientists found a cascade of brain-chemical activity. First the music triggered the forebrain, as it analyzed the structure and meaning of the tune. Then the nucleus accumbus and ventral tegmental area activated to release dopamine, a chemical that triggers the brain’s sense of reward."

Perhaps the forebrain reactions of people differ. There is much debate amongst neurologists about music. It's a fascinating field. The Oliver Sacks book was my introduction.

Interesting aside about Letvin. He's a successful but retired music producer. His hearing was good enough to recognise MCA accidentally made seven Steely Dan CDs with third generation masters.

[FairPlayMotty]

The answer Leo is very simple and Lejonklou has pointed it out before: music has direct contact to your feelings.
It does not need to be understood when performed well. It does not need to be deciphered by your brain.

If the concert was within reach from my armchair I would visit and hear it again.

When you have been given a fulfilling kiss from a woman. Do you then move away and search for a different woman to give you the next one?

The relationship between each person's neurology and music is different. There may be similarities across the population but I find it absurd to think my experience of music is the same as anyone else's. I have a very attractive and highly successful female friend who casually told me that she didn't own or play any music. I found that stunning but it illustrates an extreme case of different attitudes towards music. Assuming other people experience music in the same way as I do I believe is folly.

If she looked like a Warthog, would you have been as stunned?

Of course :-)

With one sentence she was in my mind instantly incompatible lol.

[ThomasOK]

Thanks for that insight Thomas and welcome home,it's good to have you back and hope you had a fulfilling trip.

It's been quiet without you :0)

Maybe you can answer a few questions nobody here is willing to answer.

1)Have you ever had a desire to go to a concert countless times over a short period of time in the same way you might listen to an album,both can be equally enjoyable ,cost aside ?

2)When you read a book that you enjoy and it brought out different emotions,why are you not happy to recreate those feelings again by reading it again in a few weeks.

My theory is that we simply don't fully understand/connect with it immediately and the better the hifi is the quicker we get that understanding and so move on and buy another album and so on and so on.

Have you noticed how young children can watch something on TV and immediately watch the same thing all over again the same way we listen to albums .Why is that do you think .

So many questions.

Maybe this isn't appropriate for here .

Thanks, it's good to be back. Although my trip was mostly to my second bedroom, as the spiritual retreat had to be virtual this year, it was still very enjoyable and uplifting. And I did get out for a couple of good meals (at places I have eaten before). :-)

You are getting into esoteric areas here where it could be dangerous to lead me. In answer to the questions I have never had a desire to go to a concert countless times as I am too cheap to buy the tickets. If I could have seen the original King Crimson on their one US tour I would indeed have gone multiple times. But that is in part because I now know that they broke up at the end of it. There are people who literally follow an act all over the country seeing as many shows as possible so it is not unheard of, but I am not one of them. So generally no. Then again I have seen the latest generation of King Crimson two times playing mostly the same music, yet since they are a very improvisational group it is different each time. On the other hand the time I saw Yes they sounded note for note exactly like the album which I found less than thrilling.

On books, not after a few weeks as it is still too fresh in my memory. But I have read the UK versions of the 7 Harry Potter books at least seven or eight times. I am also just finishing up on my third reading of the Hunger Games books. I'm not sure if I am a good example to use.

I can agree that improving a system will improve your understanding of the music and that has certainly had me at times wanting to listen to one after another after another album. But the one after another albums are just as often ones I have heard a lot as they are brand new ones or ones I have only played a few times. I certainly heard more out of In the Court after both the SINGularity and the Karousel than I ever had before.

But on the more esoteric side of the questions you are asking you should know that I am a meditator. One of the tenets of my path is that we are in a world of duality: there is always light and darkness, joy and sorrow, pleasure and pain, health and sickness, etc. (Every silver lining has a cloud?) Because of this the physical world can never be fully satisfying as once you have enjoyed something you become familiar with it and you will always want more and/or different. (Note any similarities with the Hi-Fi addiction of always wanting more and better?) How well you can control that in part determines how good a person you are.

So I believe only in communion with the Infinite is there wholeness and endless, ever enchanting bliss. As you might guess from this I gave up looking for absolutes in the world of relativity some time ago. "Next to silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music."

[Lego]

The answer Leo is very simple and Lejonklou has pointed it out before: music has direct contact to your feelings.
It does not need to be understood when performed well. It does not need to be deciphered by your brain.

If the concert was within reach from my armchair I would visit and hear it again.

When you have been given a fulfilling kiss from a woman. Do you then move away and search for a different woman to give you the next one?

The relationship between each person's neurology and music is different. There may be similarities across the population but I find it absurd to think my experience of music is the same as anyone else's. I have a very attractive and highly successful female friend who casually told me that she didn't own or play any music. I found that stunning but it illustrates an extreme case of different attitudes towards music. Assuming other people experience music in the same way as I do I believe is folly.

Interesting about your friend. I once met a person who said she didn't enjoy music at all. Never played it, never listened, never enjoyed it, even the slightest. That's what she claimed. It turned out to be not completely true; even though she never consciously "played" anything, she still responded to music in movies and TV series. So I think it's a very rare genetic disposition to be completely "deaf" to the emotional language of music.

On this forum, we're all musical enthusiasts. So I find this discussion rather special. One thing I don't quite get is Lego's "the brain deciphers it" analogy. Personally, I don't just decipher a musical piece - that is what I'd do if I wanted to play (some part of) it myself - I also react to it. With my body and with emotions, often unconsciously.

Once again I must refer to my professor in neurology; Jan Fagius and his book "The music of the hemispheres". There are two major strands in how the brain processes music. One is analytical and frequently used by professional musicians. They analyse what the musician is doing and exactly how it's accomplished. It's a highly specific and trainable skill.

The other strand is the non-analytical emotional appreciation of a piece. It will not notice minor mistakes or imperfections, not even the individual instruments, but instead focuses entirely on the emotional message and the whole. These two processes have been shown with MRI to take place in different parts of the brain.

My conviction, ever since I first read that book in the late 1990's, is that the Tune Method is about activating both these systems at once. In that state, you can tell better from worse - and this becomes an instant short cut to your experience with having listened to the two options for months.

Sorry Fredrik maybe decipher is the wrong word ,maybe process is also the wrong word .I don't know,is brain activity the same as processing?
Anyway I was just playing devi's advocate,hoping it would raise more questions ,but all I got was answers :0)

[Lego]

Thanks for that insight Thomas and welcome home,it's good to have you back and hope you had a fulfilling trip.

It's been quiet without you :0)

Maybe you can answer a few questions nobody here is willing to answer.

1)Have you ever had a desire to go to a concert countless times over a short period of time in the same way you might listen to an album,both can be equally enjoyable ,cost aside ?

2)When you read a book that you enjoy and it brought out different emotions,why are you not happy to recreate those feelings again by reading it again in a few weeks.

My theory is that we simply don't fully understand/connect with it immediately and the better the hifi is the quicker we get that understanding and so move on and buy another album and so on and so on.

Have you noticed how young children can watch something on TV and immediately watch the same thing all over again the same way we listen to albums .Why is that do you think .

So many questions.

Maybe this isn't appropriate for here .

Thanks, it's good to be back. Although my trip was mostly to my second bedroom, as the spiritual retreat had to be virtual this year, it was still very enjoyable and uplifting. And I did get out for a couple of good meals (at places I have eaten before). :-)

You are getting into esoteric areas here where it could be dangerous to lead me. In answer to the questions I have never had a desire to go to a concert countless times as I am too cheap to buy the tickets. If I could have seen the original King Crimson on their one US tour I would indeed have gone multiple times. But that is in part because I now know that they broke up at the end of it. There are people who literally follow an act all over the country seeing as many shows as possible so it is not unheard of, but I am not one of them. So generally no. Then again I have seen the latest generation of King Crimson two times playing mostly the same music, yet since they are a very improvisational group it is different each time. On the other hand the time I saw Yes they sounded note for note exactly like the album which I found less than thrilling.

On books, not after a few weeks as it is still too fresh in my memory. But I have read the UK versions of the 7 Harry Potter books at least seven or eight times. I am also just finishing up on my third reading of the Hunger Games books. I'm not sure if I am a good example to use.

I can agree that improving a system will improve your understanding of the music and that has certainly had me at times wanting to listen to one after another after another album. But the one after another albums are just as often ones I have heard a lot as they are brand new ones or ones I have only played a few times. I certainly heard more out of In the Court after both the SINGularity and the Karousel than I ever had before.

But on the more esoteric side of the questions you are asking you should know that I am a meditator. One of the tenets of my path is that we are in a world of duality: there is always light and darkness, joy and sorrow, pleasure and pain, health and sickness, etc. (Every silver lining has a cloud?) Because of this the physical world can never be fully satisfying as once you have enjoyed something you become familiar with it and you will always want more and/or different. (Note any similarities with the Hi-Fi addiction of always wanting more and better?) How well you can control that in part determines how good a person you are.

So I believe only in communion with the Infinite is there wholeness and endless, ever enchanting bliss. As you might guess from this I gave up looking for absolutes in the world of relativity some time ago. "Next to silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music."

'Because of this the physical world can never be fully satisfying as once you have enjoyed something you become familiar with it and you will always want more and/or different.'

Going by that Thomas the more you enjoy something (like an album on an improved/highly enjoyable replay system) the quicker you become familiar with it and the quicker you move on by looking for more albums ,which would mean you'd be listening to less of your previously bought albums.Case closed :0)

[ThomasOK]

I knew I would be giving you some ammunition with that reply. You aren't by any chance a lawyer? Considering your closing statement it seems to me you need to remove all artwork from your domicile as you can't possibly still enjoy any of it. ;-)

[Lego]

I knew I would be giving you some ammunition with that reply. You aren't by any chance a lawyer? Considering your closing statement it seems to me you need to remove all artwork from your domicile as you can't possibly still enjoy any of it. ;-)

Hahahaha,no Thomas ,I'm a hairdresser so conversation and debate is in abundance.

Having thought it through I'm probably saying that the more music you are getting out of your system the more music you will probably end up buying,I noticed this when I went from Rega 3 to LP12. Obviously the the higher the number of albums you have the less chance you have of listening to older ones as often .

I'm not saying I don't enjoy or rate the older albums I'm just listening to them less. I'm too busy listening to new ones.If I wasn't getting much out of my system,there would be less albums,so more chance of listening to older ones .It's a numbers game :0)

As far as artwork goes luckily for me I don't treat my art at home the way I would if I were in a gallery as my place would be over adorned with mezzotints and etchings and I would have no records.

Not sure about the food ,women and art analogies in relation to appreciating music.

[ThomasOK]

We can definitely agree that the more musical your system sounds the more you want to feed it with new music. Although it also ties in with the ever-increasing nature of desires. ;-)

[Tony Tune-age]

We can definitely agree that the more musical your system sounds the more you want to feed it with new music.

That's how it works for me, I've purchased a ton of vinyl since the arrival of my new bearing system! The tough part is finding enough space for such an increase of albums! But that's a good problem to have!

Cheers

[Lego]

We can definitely agree that the more musical your system sounds the more you want to feed it with new music. Although it also ties in with the ever-increasing nature of desires. ;-)

Indeed the ever increasing nature of desire for new music ,I think we can leave it there

[V.A.MKD]

We can definitely agree that the more musical your system sounds the more you want to feed it with new music. Although it also ties in with the ever-increasing nature of desires. ;-)

+1 as wall for knowledge ... ;-)