Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by Charlie1 »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-24 13:00 Charlie1, did you read the Ken Kessler review of the Tukan? It brought back memories for me - I hadn't realised how anti Linn Kessler was. But he did like the Tukan. Reading the UK HiFi reviews of that period are a blast from the past.
Yes, it's fun to look back at some of this stuff. IIRC, he basically says he wasn't expecting to like it but did.
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Re: Nexus Biasing

Post by lejonklou »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-24 15:09
Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-09-23 04:43 Linn's headquarters have the lowest seismic reading of anywhere in the UK.
Linn's headquarters are around thirty miles from my home.

According to the British Geographical Survey, the West of Scotland and West Wales have the highest seismic readings in the UK. The lowest readings in the UK are in Northern Ireland and North East Scotland.
Ha ha!

Marketers and their stories...
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-09-24 15:49
FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-24 13:00 Charlie1, did you read the Ken Kessler review of the Tukan? It brought back memories for me - I hadn't realised how anti Linn Kessler was. But he did like the Tukan. Reading the UK HiFi reviews of that period are a blast from the past.
Yes, it's fun to look back at some of this stuff. IIRC, he basically says he wasn't expecting to like it but did.
Yes you're right. I more often than not disagreed with Kessler but I forgot how forthright he was - it was fun to read. I'm sure the HiFi companies dreaded him. It was interesting to read Dalgeish plus a salesman made the trip to London (?) for the review to, "set up the equipment".
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Re: Nexus Biasing

Post by FairPlayMotty »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-09-24 15:54
FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-24 15:09
Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-09-23 04:43 Linn's headquarters have the lowest seismic reading of anywhere in the UK.
Linn's headquarters are around thirty miles from my home.

According to the British Geographical Survey, the West of Scotland and West Wales have the highest seismic readings in the UK. The lowest readings in the UK are in Northern Ireland and North East Scotland.
Ha ha!

Marketers and their stories...
Yes indeed, ingenious piece of spin!
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by lejonklou »

Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-09-23 21:31 I think you're being unfair to David Williamson
I don't count David Williamson as an old hero, he joined decades later.

The Keel, Ekos SE and new MC carts are certainly amazing achievements and I have the deepest respect for his knowledge.
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Eaglesham's other claim to fame is Hess landing there in 1941. Many conspiracy theories exist on what he was doing there.

I like to think he dreamt of Linn's arrival but got the date a tad wrong :)
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Seizmik

Post by Ron The Mon »

FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-24 16:11
lejonklou wrote: 2020-09-24 15:54
FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-24 15:09 Linn's headquarters are around thirty miles from my home.

According to the British Geographical Survey, the West of Scotland and West Wales have the highest seismic readings in the UK. The lowest readings in the UK are in Northern Ireland and North East Scotland.
Ha ha!

Marketers and their stories...
Yes indeed, ingenious piece of spin!
I seem to have misspoke by using the word "seismic". I do not know anything about measuring ground vibrations or geologic conditions. Linn did choose their current location (at least partly) because of ground vibrations.

When I am in my basement late at night, I can occasionally feel the concrete floor have periodic low frequency shimmying. It took me many months to figure it out. One day my wife was on the third floor and out a window saw the lights of a freighter going by. We are about a mile from the Detroit River. I shared this finding at a neighborhood party and it turns out everyone else already knew this. One neighbor who lives right off the river says her dining room chandelier rings when large ships go by.

At my old house, I could feel it shake at night when trains went by from miles away.

I'm sure many of you have experienced a car driving by your house playing rap music with a loud sub-woofer. I'm not sure if it's a Detroit thing, but now motorcyclists have these sub-woofers. Since they are open, it rattles the front windows of my house; you can actually see the glass panes moving. Many custom motorcycles now have tuned exhausts which are super-loud.

The current Linn facility doesn't experience these noises and vibrations. The question is, does it result in improved manufacturing?

I remanufactured and installed surface-mount pick-and-place machines for over a decade. Most assembly line installs are done at night so production isn't affected. The most accurate standards are always accomplished at night.

The first LP12 our shop received built at the new Linn factory sounded better than our demo unit of the same specification. I swapped stands and styli. I had set both up exactly the same. I called another dealer whose opinions I respected and he said the same thing. He said the LP12 bearings and platters were still being machined at the old facility. The bottom line is, at least one product sounded better made at the new facility. Why, I never found out.

It saddens me that Fredrik and FairPlayMotty are calloused by snake oil hi-fi such that they distrust unfounded ideas. By the way, I have never heard of Linn using this info as a selling feature. In fact, if I knew a certain location improved performance, I wouldn't share it so my competitors could discover it.



Back to the Linn Nexus LS250; I liked them and sold quite a few pairs. Most U.S. Linn dealers refused to stock them and sold none. Everyone in our shop sold them and liked them. One salesman loved and sold a lot of Linn Helix models. He sold many Linn Axis/Creek4040/Helix systems. He said there was nothing that could beat it. Throw in a Creek 3040 tuner & NAD CD player and that was a lot of hi-fi for under $2K.

We had a pair of EPOS on demo for about six months and didn't sell a single pair. Every time someone came in and asked to hear EPOS (there were a couple positive reviews out at the time), we would compare them to the Nexus and it was an easy sale. The EPOS on stands was a similar price and look to the Nexus. To this day, I don't get the EPOS thing. I could say how terrible they were but then FairPlayMotty probably had a beer at his local pub with Robin Marshall last week and would be upset.

I can't tell you how many times I heard, "You like Kans? You've got to hear the EPOS.". Well folks, I heard them many, many times. Every Royd speaker we sold was better than the EPOS and cost less. Damn, I think I'm trying to bait FPM.

Ivor Tiefenbrun's true talent is surrounding himself with individualist designers who work well in a team environment. No one left Linn and went on to excel elsewhere. Rod Crawford calling his company "Legend" was a mistake.

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Re: Seizmik

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Ron The Mon wrote: 1970-01-01 01:00 Damn, I think I'm trying to bait FPM.
Good luck with that RTM. I'm less easy to bait than upset. Spannko's assertion of obfuscation couldn't get close (it did make my ex boss and mentor laugh out loud - he's aware I'd be considerably wealthier if I was prone to a hint of obfuscation).

No beers at local pubs for me since 2018. Divorce, house move, shielding against Covid ensured that.
The location and choice of new house had HiFi built into the equation.

If Linn wanted a securely steady site for the new factory they chose badly for that criterion. Building there and hoping for a vibration-free zone is harder than balancing a mattress on a bottle of wine :) They did have the constraint of a set of employees who lived around Glasgow.

If I meet anyone more open to new ideas I'll congratulate him.

I missed out on EPOS listening. I'm trying to calculate how many pairs of speakers I have bought. I reckon seven or eight. For me if you buy the right loudspeakers you should have them for a long time (fifteen to twenty years plus on average for me) - I knew it was source first in 1978. Some of the makes/models I have bought have been timing of what was on the market at the time.

My guess is a fair number of people have left Linn and excelled elsewhere (a friend and former colleague certainly has). Some of that depends on how you measure excelling. Linn is not a company made up entirely of audio engineers.

Your line about Legend is well chosen (always a risky choice) and brings to mind a comment made by Mark Everett of The Eels on John Legend in a quite brilliant book called, "Things the Grandchildren Should Know". Everett has led a remarkable life in the music industry and outside of it (his father is widely regarded as the father of quantum mechanics as we know it).
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by Lego »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-09-23 17:39 That was a joy to read, Ron. Thanks!

I've always been bored by Rod Crawford's stories from his years at Linn. That he doesn't understand Tune Dem or what Linn were originally about is just too obvious. He's a typical loudspeaker engineer who thinks the frequency response is a key parameter, while for musicality it's not.

I guess the reason why his comments keep surfacing is that nobody else will speak about their time with Linn. All the old heroes have left the company, but none of them seem to want to share any stories.
Yes it's called not gossiping Fredrik 😂
Last edited by Lego on 2020-09-27 17:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by Lego »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-09-23 17:39 That was a joy to read, Ron. Thanks!

I've always been bored by Rod Crawford's stories from his years at Linn. That he doesn't understand Tune Dem or what Linn were originally about is just too obvious. He's a typical loudspeaker engineer who thinks the frequency response is a key parameter, while for musicality it's not.

I guess the reason why his comments keep surfacing is that nobody else will speak about their time with Linn. All the old heroes have left the company, but none of them seem to want to share any stories.
Otherwise know as 'Not gossiping' Fredrik
Last edited by Lego on 2020-09-27 17:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seizmik

Post by Spannko »

Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-09-24 20:42
FairPlayMotty wrote: 2020-09-24 16:11
lejonklou wrote: 2020-09-24 15:54
Ha ha!

Marketers and their stories...
Yes indeed, ingenious piece of spin!
I seem to have misspoke by using the word "seismic". I do not know anything about measuring ground vibrations or geologic conditions. Linn did choose their current location (at least partly) because of ground vibrations.

When I am in my basement late at night, I can occasionally feel the concrete floor have periodic low frequency shimmying. It took me many months to figure it out. One day my wife was on the third floor and out a window saw the lights of a freighter going by. We are about a mile from the Detroit River. I shared this finding at a neighborhood party and it turns out everyone else already knew this. One neighbor who lives right off the river says her dining room chandelier rings when large ships go by.

At my old house, I could feel it shake at night when trains went by from miles away.

I'm sure many of you have experienced a car driving by your house playing rap music with a loud sub-woofer. I'm not sure if it's a Detroit thing, but now motorcyclists have these sub-woofers. Since they are open, it rattles the front windows of my house; you can actually see the glass panes moving. Many custom motorcycles now have tuned exhausts which are super-loud.

The current Linn facility doesn't experience these noises and vibrations. The question is, does it result in improved manufacturing?

I remanufactured and installed surface-mount pick-and-place machines for over a decade. Most assembly line installs are done at night so production isn't affected. The most accurate standards are always accomplished at night.

The first LP12 our shop received built at the new Linn factory sounded better than our demo unit of the same specification. I swapped stands and styli. I had set both up exactly the same. I called another dealer whose opinions I respected and he said the same thing. He said the LP12 bearings and platters were still being machined at the old facility. The bottom line is, at least one product sounded better made at the new facility. Why, I never found out.

It saddens me that Fredrik and FairPlayMotty are calloused by snake oil hi-fi such that they distrust unfounded ideas. By the way, I have never heard of Linn using this info as a selling feature. In fact, if I knew a certain location improved performance, I wouldn't share it so my competitors could discover it.



Back to the Linn Nexus LS250; I liked them and sold quite a few pairs. Most U.S. Linn dealers refused to stock them and sold none. Everyone in our shop sold them and liked them. One salesman loved and sold a lot of Linn Helix models. He sold many Linn Axis/Creek4040/Helix systems. He said there was nothing that could beat it. Throw in a Creek 3040 tuner & NAD CD player and that was a lot of hi-fi for under $2K.

We had a pair of EPOS on demo for about six months and didn't sell a single pair. Every time someone came in and asked to hear EPOS (there were a couple positive reviews out at the time), we would compare them to the Nexus and it was an easy sale. The EPOS on stands was a similar price and look to the Nexus. To this day, I don't get the EPOS thing. I could say how terrible they were but then FairPlayMotty probably had a beer at his local pub with Robin Marshall last week and would be upset.

I can't tell you how many times I heard, "You like Kans? You've got to hear the EPOS.". Well folks, I heard them many, many times. Every Royd speaker we sold was better than the EPOS and cost less. Damn, I think I'm trying to bait FPM.

Ivor Tiefenbrun's true talent is surrounding himself with individualist designers who work well in a team environment. No one left Linn and went on to excel elsewhere. Rod Crawford calling his company "Legend" was a mistake.

Ron The Mon
Great post RTM! And, FWIW, Linn have stated on many occasions that one of the reasons for moving to the greenfield site was to avoid the vibrations caused by their noisy neighbours at Drakemire Drive. I’m not aware of Linn ever giving any seismological reasons for the move.
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by FairPlayMotty »

Spannko,

Neighbour noise makes much more sense as a criterion for Linn's move to Eaglesham.
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by Spannko »

Just to be clear, I was referring to vibrations from machines. Audible noise may have been a consideration too, but I’m not aware of that.
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Re: Nexus Biasing

Post by WheresMyNaim »

Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-09-23 04:43
Spannko wrote: 2020-07-28 08:55 From what I remember, the Nexus were the most musical of the “nice” sounding speakers of the time, but nowhere near as musical as Kans. However, I remember hearing a later pair with a Nait 2 and it was a very pleasant listen.

I never realized they were so successful though (20,000 pairs sold), so from Linns' perspective it was a good move.
19,700 pairs of the 20,000 sold went to Germany. That is why most on this forum have never heard or seen them, new or used. The article Charlie1 linked to above is the most un-researched hi-fi article I may have ever read. It reads like David Price interviewed fired sourpuss Rod Crawford only. What hacks.

Linn needed money fast to finance their new facility. Charlie Brennan thought a new speaker line that ran alongside the existing models made for export markets would succeed. Notice the Nexus has two names; an alpha/numeric moniker worked better in non-English speaking markets.

I believe Crawford was contract hired for three or four years with no intention of keeping him on. He disliked all the previous Linn speakers. He told Martin Dalgleish his Sara and DMS designs sounded good because the bass drivers were so close together, magnetically joining them in tandem and had nothing to do with "isobaric loading" pressure.

He ruined the Kan, making the Kan II. He ruined the Index Plus (a fantastic speaker), making the Index II. He ruined the Isobarik, making the Keltik. He foisted bi-wiring and passive bi-amping on all Linn speakers. His team was responsible for the later Isobarik outboard crossover; ironically to support tri-wiring and building only one model (PMS), but created a better sounding Isobarik. He invented and put Kustone into every speaker; was it really better sounding than the fill Linn had been using?

The good news is Linn's finances were injected with a lot of cash, making them a solvent company with a much enlarged facility. I believe the idea of Linn's current location was chosen by Martin as well. He thought a location with the lowest vibrations would improve machining standards. Linn's headquarters have the lowest seismic reading of anywhere in the UK.

Hiring Crawford removed Martin Dalgleish from the speaker department to designing the Troika and improving his Ittok into the Ekos. The Troika sold more units in it's first year than all other moving coil cartridges combined over $500.; an amazing statistic. This also injected a serious amount of capital. Somewhere I have a photograph of thousands of Troikas on a bench being built in Scotland. Per square foot, the profit must have been 10K a month for several years!

Why is there even an article about Rod Crawford? He is an asterisk at Linn and a nobody in the hi-fi world. Martin Dalgleish was at Linn 34 years and designed the Isobarik DMS, SARA, Kan, Index, ASAK, Karma, Asaka, Troika, Ittok, Ekos, Basik tonearms, Axis, K9, K5, & K18. He upgraded the LP12 with numerous ongoing improvements; Nirvana, Valhalla, glued sub-chassis, Cirkus, etc. His teams built the Karik/Numerik and invented digital streaming. I remember Ivor telling me in 1988 Martin had a credit card sized solid-state medium that sounded far better than CD. Martin believed streaming was far better sounding than CD and is the reason Linn didn't jump into the CD format.

I'll give you one guess who discovered the importance of, and established tune-dem. Many at Linn kept hearing how those who had an LP12 and Isobariks used their hi-fi every night (it later became a funny slogan). Someone started noticing the equipment common denominators and listened. It turns out, hi-fi equipment that played the "tune" better resulted in more musical satisfaction and less listener fatigue.

I'll give you one hint who that person was; not David Price or Rod Crawford.

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Rod Crawford disagrees with the facts.

This post was gossip laced with dangerous legal allegations about Rod Crawford's tenure at Linn. Personal attacks without evidence is poor behavior. At best.
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More Nexus Biasing

Post by Ron The Mon »

WheresMyNaim wrote: 2020-11-01 03:40
Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-09-23 04:43
Spannko wrote: 2020-07-28 08:55 From what I remember, the Nexus were the most musical of the “nice” sounding speakers of the time, but nowhere near as musical as Kans. However, I remember hearing a later pair with a Nait 2 and it was a very pleasant listen.

I never realized they were so successful though (20,000 pairs sold), so from Linns' perspective it was a good move.
19,700 pairs of the 20,000 sold went to Germany. That is why most on this forum have never heard or seen them, new or used. The article Charlie1 linked to above is the most un-researched hi-fi article I may have ever read. It reads like David Price interviewed fired sourpuss Rod Crawford only. What hacks.

Linn needed money fast to finance their new facility. Charlie Brennan thought a new speaker line that ran alongside the existing models made for export markets would succeed. Notice the Nexus has two names; an alpha/numeric moniker worked better in non-English speaking markets.

I believe Crawford was contract hired for three or four years with no intention of keeping him on. He disliked all the previous Linn speakers. He told Martin Dalgleish his Sara and DMS designs sounded good because the bass drivers were so close together, magnetically joining them in tandem and had nothing to do with "isobaric loading" pressure.

He ruined the Kan, making the Kan II. He ruined the Index Plus (a fantastic speaker), making the Index II. He ruined the Isobarik, making the Keltik. He foisted bi-wiring and passive bi-amping on all Linn speakers. His team was responsible for the later Isobarik outboard crossover; ironically to support tri-wiring and building only one model (PMS), but created a better sounding Isobarik. He invented and put Kustone into every speaker; was it really better sounding than the fill Linn had been using?

The good news is Linn's finances were injected with a lot of cash, making them a solvent company with a much enlarged facility. I believe the idea of Linn's current location was chosen by Martin as well. He thought a location with the lowest vibrations would improve machining standards. Linn's headquarters have the lowest seismic reading of anywhere in the UK.

Hiring Crawford removed Martin Dalgleish from the speaker department to designing the Troika and improving his Ittok into the Ekos. The Troika sold more units in it's first year than all other moving coil cartridges combined over $500.; an amazing statistic. This also injected a serious amount of capital. Somewhere I have a photograph of thousands of Troikas on a bench being built in Scotland. Per square foot, the profit must have been 10K a month for several years!

Why is there even an article about Rod Crawford? He is an asterisk at Linn and a nobody in the hi-fi world. Martin Dalgleish was at Linn 34 years and designed the Isobarik DMS, SARA, Kan, Index, ASAK, Karma, Asaka, Troika, Ittok, Ekos, Basik tonearms, Axis, K9, K5, & K18. He upgraded the LP12 with numerous ongoing improvements; Nirvana, Valhalla, glued sub-chassis, Cirkus, etc. His teams built the Karik/Numerik and invented digital streaming. I remember Ivor telling me in 1988 Martin had a credit card sized solid-state medium that sounded far better than CD. Martin believed streaming was far better sounding than CD and is the reason Linn didn't jump into the CD format.

I'll give you one guess who discovered the importance of, and established tune-dem. Many at Linn kept hearing how those who had an LP12 and Isobariks used their hi-fi every night (it later became a funny slogan). Someone started noticing the equipment common denominators and listened. It turns out, hi-fi equipment that played the "tune" better resulted in more musical satisfaction and less listener fatigue.

I'll give you one hint who that person was; not David Price or Rod Crawford.

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Rod Crawford disagrees with the facts.
It is illogical to disagree with facts/truth. Show me specifically where he disagrees? Here is Rod Crawford's own recent printed words. Crawford thinks cheesy digital sounds better than a Klimax LP12. He doesn't, and never has, believed in tune-dem. He doesn't believe in source-first. He hasn't bought vinyl in 30 years. Look at his personal turntable and try his Ekos abominations on your own Ekos and let me know how it sounds.
This post was gossip laced with dangerous legal allegations about Rod Crawford's tenure at Linn.
I never made any "legal allegations", only factual data. I worked for the number one Linn dealer in the United States. I talked more with Ivor Tiefenbrun and Charlie Brennan of Linn than the U.S. distributors. Every bit of information I gleaned from Charlie, Ivor, Martin Dalgleish, or Julian Vereker about Crawford was always true.

Probably the worst aspect of Crawford being at Linn is the "bi-wiring"/"bi-amping" speaker misnomer, stating two lesser cables or amps sounds better than a single cable or amp of better quality. I don't know that he personally instigated this design philosophy. Unfortunately, it is a belief that permeates hi-fi today and he was there when it happened. Linn's acceptance and promotion of this false ideology has resulted in worse sounding hi-fis, not better. It also helped create the Exakt continuum.

Also, Crawford never had "tenure" at Linn; he was simply a hired gun. He doesn't have a pension, investments, or rights to any designs. In fact, he currently uses Martin Dalgleish's isobarik design even though he believes it works because of magnetics, not isobarik (equal air loading) principles.
Personal attacks without evidence is poor behavior. At best.
I have never called Rod ugly, stated he had a small penis, or said his mother wore Army boots. Those would be personal attacks.

Rod Crawford never believed in Tune-Dem, Source-First, or vinyl superiority. He thinks amps don't make a significant improvement improving music. He has never owned a decent sounding CD player, streamer, or DAC. I have never "attacked" him in any way. However, someone who was surrounded by some of the best hi-fi, designers, and music and still has those improper beliefs is a sad individual. Sadder is live music isn't important to his life. I also don't trust any hi-fi manufacturer, distributor, or retailer who doesn't have thousands of LPs and a good turntable.

Music is what it's all about. hi-fi is secondary.

To be clear, there is no one on this Forum who currently uses Linn Nexus, Helix, Sara9, Kan II, Index II, or Keltik. There is one reason.

Ron The Mon
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by Charlie1 »

Apparently the Kan 2 was done by Phil Hobbs and Rod had very little, if anything, to do with it.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2020-11-08 08:53, edited 1 time in total.
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More Nexus Biasing

Post by Ron The Mon »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-11-08 00:25 Apparently the Kan II was done by Phil Hobbs and Rod had very little, if anything, to do with it.
What is meant by "done"? Show us evidence. You are wrong.

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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by Rutger »

Rod Crawford made The Linn kaber, loved by many Linn enthusiasts. The Keltiks where also really good, but very hard to set up properly.

Aktive kabers with top-sources sounded much better than Linn Kan.

Back to the subject - The Nexus was in my opinion a really good sounding, musical loudspeaker , much better than the reputation nowadays.
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by Spannko »

My experience of the Kaber was quite different to yours Rutger. The first Kabers were not only poor for a Linn loudspeaker, they were poor by any standards. My belief is that linn also thought they were poor. They were released at a time when the hifi industry was struggling and linn had a new factory to pay for and as always, cash is King. Today, they would retail for £7000-9000? and my belief is that Linn really knew that their dealers would struggle to sell them and Linn would be stuck with a warehouse full of expensive speakers. Their solution? Insist that every dealer took two pairs, unheard and no returns!

IMHO Keilidh’s were better than Keltik’s.
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by anthony »

My kabers were great and replaced my isobariks, with no regrets.
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by Hermann »

The Linn Nexus is a very underrated speaker and played for many years in my photo studio (150sqm, 3.5m room height). Some customers even asked about the good sound. Driven by a small digital amplifier, a Lenovo W520 as streaming source was all that was needed to make them sing. Of course the systems were supported by Mana Racks and Mana Sound stages. When I retired, I gave it one of the last customers including digital amplifier, as his enthusiasm for the combo was very high and he paid a reasonable price.

I still own the Keiligh with Naim NAC72 and 140 power amp. It is currently not in use, but with a Unitiserve CD player/streamer as a source, I think the combo is hard to beat musically for the price.

I still regret that I have given away the Kaber. I do not think that they can replace the briks, but is already a mature speaker.

The weak points were in each case the metal bridges at the connection terminals. Therefore, I had modified the NACA5 cable so that at the end of each 2 or 3 Bananas pairs in the right distance replaced them. Biamping (NAP140) or bewiring (NACA5, Mogami and others) was a nogo for me with all these speakers.
Trust your ears
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