SewerSleuth wrote: ↑2021-02-06 18:57 The shim is for the Karousel, not the platter.

SewerSleuth,
If you are writing at me, it appears you didn't fully read my post. Your biggest complaint was the gap on the top of the platters. This shim doesn't correct that.

This shim isn't just for the Karousel. When I was a Linn dealer in the 1980s, there were LP12s then where the outer platter rode high. This isn't a new issue. This shim should work on any LP12 since the screw holes are in the same place and the Karousel has the largest diameter bearing housing.

It is probably just a cosmetic issue, though it would definitely make even more contact with a Valhalla board. It may even cause an issue with other crossmember versions.

Can you please make a before and after recording. To be clear, you will need to lower the tonearm height, reset the springs, and adjust the P-clip & tonearm cable length. I suspect your LP12 will look slightly better but perform slightly worse.

The good news is you can return it to unmodded use.

Ron The Mon

Ron, I think you missed some of the earlier discussion. The Karousel will not mount to a pre-Cirkus sub chassis as the nubs on the housing are too tall and you will tighten down the top nut on them rather than the sub chassis. The Karousel was designed for a 2mm thick sub chassis which includes the Cirkus, Majik, Kore and Keel. The shim fits in the hole in the lower brace of older sub chassis to make it 2mm thick and allow you to use the Karousel. A bad idea in my estimation but Linn said it would work with any LP12 so they made it do it. However, they do say the Karousel is NOT to be used with a Valhalla, Hercules 2 or similar due to electrical safety concerns.

Thank you ThomasOK - bang on.

No offence intended Shim-Sham, but as ThomasOK says, this discussion on my part started a way back where I had trouble getting the Karousel to fit my original chassis.

The platter height difference was confirmed by Linn as not a problem, and I got a new rigid mat anyway, so that became a non-issue in the end.

As of this evening, I now have the Karousel fitted with the shim and the springs reset, and it’s sounding great.

I would like to upgrade the chassis though, and there is much talk on here of there being loads of Cirkus chassis’ available on the 2nd hand market, but I can’t find any. I can find loads of pre-Cirkus ones only, which doesn’t seem to fit the bill.

I’ve also seen 3rd party options, but not so sure about those. I guess in time I’ll treat myself to a Kore, but not yet.

its more that Cirrus bearings are now widely available but you can check LP12bits.com they might have something for you.
I would still compare your mat to the felt mat and record it to put it into the the playground.

What’s the playground?

Playground for practical listening exercises is two threads below this one
we put recordings there and other forum members can help with deciding what is more musical
btw I checked LP12bits.com and they have a Cirrus chassis available

Thank you Defender.

One thing I’ve learned on my LP12 journey is that the deck is so good to start with, and that improvements are very small and incremental.

You have to spend a lot of money to get a very small improvement.

With this in mind, I’ll probably just save some pennies and get a Kore (or even a Keel) at a point in the future, because I don’t believe that upgrading the chassis from a standard to a Cirkus version will make any tangible difference to the sound.

Ok, I've posted a comparison in the Playground.

Now, I'm nervous about the results.....

SewerSleuth wrote: ↑2021-02-07 12:52 With this in mind, I’ll probably just save some pennies and get a Kore (or even a Keel) at a point in the future, because I don’t believe that upgrading the chassis from a standard to a Cirkus version will make any tangible difference to the sound.

A Kore or a Keel will definitely sound better. But I wouldn't underestimate the significance of the Cirkus subchassis. Given the relatively modest cost (~$75-$100 used), I would definitely go this route in the interim.

Just curious, how is the Karousel going down now? Everyone happy? Torques sorted? Anyone changed sides? Everyone of PFM and Naim forums love it. I don’t keep up with Linn WAM to know.

I seem to recall not many disliking it; myself, beck, u252agz, Fredrik and possibly Spankko but not sure. Lego had a dem but it was poorly setup and no conclusion made.

Particularly curious as to what Fredrik thinks now that the dust and torques have settled.

at least the opinion from Fredrik is clear ... you can read it on the first page of the „havier counterweights thread“

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2021-04-07 18:50 Just curious, how is the Karousel going down now? Everyone happy? Torques sorted? Anyone changed sides? Everyone of PFM and Naim forums love it. I don’t keep up with Linn WAM to know.

I seem to recall not many disliking it; myself, beck, u252agz, Fredrik and possibly Spankko but not sure. Lego had a dem but it was poorly setup and no conclusion made.

Particularly curious as to what Fredrik thinks now that the dust and torques have settled.

It's always interesting to learn how LP12 owners feel about the Karousel bearing system. I've read Fredrik's comments, which are located in the "Heavier Counterweights" thread. And it would appear he doesn't like the Karousel bearing system more than the Cirkus.

I was initially skeptical about the Karousel, much like I was skeptical about the Trampolin, Keel, Radikal and other LP12 upgrades. But as it turns out, I haven't been disappointed with any of the LP12 upgrades...which includes the Linn Karousel bearing system. To my ears, the Karousel does not sound digital in any sense of the word. And it makes me wonder if my Cirkus bearing system had been flawed in some way. Of course I'm very fortunate that Thomas installed the Karousel bearing system, and I'm fortunate that he knew all the optimum torques as well. And in that regard, he's certainly a perfectionist.

I know not all people have the same opinions, or hear the same way either. But that's what makes life interesting to me, in the audio world...different strokes for different folks!

Cheers

Thanks Defender. I'd only dipped in and out of that thread so missed his comments.

Thanks Tony for sharing your thoughts. I'm genuinely pleased for anyone that's invested and is happy with the result.

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2021-04-07 20:24 Thanks Tony for sharing your thoughts. I'm genuinely pleased for anyone that's invested and is happy with the result.

You're welcome Charlie, if we were all the same...life would be boring! For me, it's not about being invested...it's about finding components that sound good to me regardless of money. And in some ways, money is the easy part. But at the same time, I really don't want to constantly replace expensive components either.

Cheers

You seem to be on a solid course, always enjoying each step.

Just don't sell those speakers ;)

You are lucky to have Tom so close by too. Some of the distances folks in the US must have to travel seem very alien to us on this little island.

I'm enjoying mine immensely! Just yesterday I was playing Julia Holter's "Have You In My Wilderness". It was the first time since Karousel and the first song "Feel You" is easily accessible, then it gets more difficult. But yesterday I found myself grooving to ALL the songs on the record. The Karousel stays.

Yes! I test this record and that song myself when making upgrades. It really can sound horrible for such a lovely piece of music!

Good to hear Tendaberry. I feel I'm missing out somewhat but it is what it is.

Charlie1 wrote: ↑2021-04-07 22:46 You seem to be on a solid course, always enjoying each step.

Just don't sell those speakers ;)

You are lucky to have Tom so close by too. Some of the distances folks in the US must have to travel seem very alien to us on this little island.

Thank you Charlie...I'm very lucky indeed!

Cheers

A friend of mine will be getting the Karousel bearing system soon, and he'll be replacing the original stock Linn bearing system (i.e., Pre-Cirkus bearing system). In addition he'll be getting some type of a Lingo power supply, Cirkus sub-chasse & armboard, Trampolin and my Kandid cartridge. Since this is a lot of upgrading at same time, it will be difficult to hear the individual improvements of each part. But should sound fantastic overall...

If possible, we'll take some pictures...
Tony Tune-age

And clips? 🤗

Tony Tune-age wrote: ↑2021-12-26 19:39 A friend of mine will be getting the Karousel bearing system soon, and he'll be replacing the original stock Linn bearing system (i.e., Pre-Cirkus bearing system). In addition he'll be getting some type of a Lingo power supply, Cirkus sub-chasse & armboard, Trampolin and my Kandid cartridge. Since this is a lot of upgrading at same time, it will be difficult to hear the individual improvements of each part. But should sound fantastic overall...

If possible, we'll take some pictures...
Tony Tune-age

I learned a long time ago it's not a race -it's a long term mental health working hobby- and it's super easy to loose the tune once you've found it in "your system", all changes should be done one at a time followed by a week or two of break in/listening to achieve the best system integration & outcome. It's also the best way to truly learn about & understand your system. Of course this is easier done if you do the work yourself like may people here do, it's not rocket science after all. Take the new Karousel bearing for example, my friend -an XLinn dealer, retired with over 30 years experience working on LP-12's and Linn factory trained- and I put one into his LP12 and never got it to work right, after several re-mounts and re-torques and two+ weeks of breaking in it was never as musically engaging and in-tune as his original pre-circus black bearing. It's too bad, we were expecting great things, and that was only one change, imagine doing several and not being happy? Which change was it that went wrong?

My last upgrade was an Akiva and when I got it home the sound was flat .Through Linn I managed to track down the bloke who set up my first deck.He brought it back and he said it didn't need much.But that 'didnt need much' was the difference between boring sounding and music playing

I find it hard to believe a well set up deck would sound worse with an upgrade especially if the old deck was going out slightly,it might 'sound' different/worse but the tune will be better.

Only badly set-up LP12s sound unlistenable.Usually the music takes over.

Discodave wrote: ↑2021-12-26 20:00 And clips? 🤗

Possibly, but ultimately it will depend on him since he's not a big forum person.

Lego wrote: ↑2021-12-26 22:13 My last upgrade was an Akiva and when I got it home the sound was flat. Through Linn I managed to track down the bloke who set up my first deck. He brought it back and said it didn't need much. But that "didn't need much" was the difference between boring sounding and music playing

I find it hard to believe a well set up deck would sound worse with an upgrade, especially if the old deck was going out slightly, it might "sound" different/worse but the tune will be better.

Only badly set-up LP12s sound unlistenable, and usually the music takes over.

I agree, and Thomas is the best LP12 technician that has ever worked on my deck (although all were Linn trained).

Cheers