Karousel

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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beck
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Re: Karousel

Post by beck » 2020-03-07 11:50

And it really can happen to anyone!

Nice system Linntek! There is always room for yet another Sondek setup. :-)

Now that this whole thread has been rick-rolled you simple have to see this video:

https://youtu.be/ZVQfR27ISjM :-)
In need of good ears

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Re: Karousel

Post by tokenbrit » 2020-03-07 14:10

And there people were thinking Rik had no bearing on this thread but, as Linntek shows, he's really good at keeping it rolling... :)

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Re: Karousel

Post by John » 2020-03-07 14:31

matthias wrote:
2020-03-07 08:54
John wrote:
2020-03-06 20:22
Wonder how the bearing will affect the hierarchy when considering upgrading.
I am sure Karousel in a Majik sub chassis will outperform Cirkus in a Keel.

Matt
I would have to hear that one. In my experience it seems there is a matching issue with the bearing and subchassis. I thought the Cirkus needed a better subchassis than the original stock steel it was originally supplied with.

I’m more curious how the Karosel/Keel fits into the hierarchy vs the Cirkus with Radikal...
Bearing/subchassis vs Power Supply.

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Re: Karousel

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-03-07 14:47

John wrote:
2020-03-07 14:31
I thought the Cirkus needed a better subchassis than the original stock steel it was originally supplied with.
Someone that worked at Linn doing Quality Control at that time told me that the main reason they went for double thickness was cos it took them so long to remove the glue (or something) from the original sub-chassis where the bearing mates with the sub-chassis. Making both holes the same thickness saved a lot of time and faff.

Someone else told me that, around the early 80s, Ivor told him that some flex where the bearing mates with the sub-chassis was beneficial.

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Re: Karousel

Post by John » 2020-03-07 14:53

I wonder what is different about the Karosel vs Cirkus that now makes it non compatible with third party subchassis or is it Linn just protecting themselves from lawsuits.

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Re: Karousel

Post by Catweazle » 2020-03-07 15:07

John wrote:
2020-03-07 14:53
I wonder what is different about the Karosel vs Cirkus that now makes it non compatible with third party subchassis or is it Linn just protecting themselves from lawsuits.
I'd guess this is Linn just being prudent. After all, it is not Linn's job to maintain compatibility with third party subchassis vendors. The third party subchassis vendors need to maintain compatibility with Linn - or lose this business.
PC or LP12-Cirkus-Lingo2-Kore-Ekos2-Krystal | Uphorik | KRDSM | AEXBOX6/K | C6100/D | AV5140/EspekT

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Re: Karousel

Post by matthias » 2020-03-07 15:08

John wrote:
2020-03-07 14:31
I would have to hear that one. In my experience it seems there is a matching issue with the bearing and subchassis. I thought the Cirkus needed a better subchassis than the original stock steel it was originally supplied with.
I’m more curious how the Karosel/Keel fits into the hierarchy vs the Cirkus with Radikal...
Bearing/subchassis vs Power Supply.
IMO, the turntable hierarchy is like:

1.) Bearing
2.)Motor and power supply
3.)Sub chassis

So I think Karousel/Keel will be superior to Cirkus/Radikal but YMMV

Matt
LP12 / Exposure / JBL3677

matthias
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Re: Karousel

Post by matthias » 2020-03-07 15:14

John wrote:
2020-03-07 14:53
I wonder what is different about the Karosel vs Cirkus that now makes it non compatible with third party subchassis or is it Linn just protecting themselves from lawsuits.
The bigger diameter of the Karousel may interfere with some Valhalla type motor controllers.
With Valhalla you have up to 400V inside the LP12 which can be dangerous.
But other third party power supplies like Naim Armageddon have no issues with the Karousel.

Matt
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Tony Tune-age
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Re: Karousel

Post by Tony Tune-age » 2020-03-07 16:31

Linntek wrote:
2020-03-07 09:53
Hi Tony
Nothing wrong being rickrolled. Could happen to anyone.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ctplrcjx761gb ... 6.mov?dl=0
True dat...now I know!

Cheers
Tony Tune-age

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Re: Karousel

Post by John » 2020-03-07 16:35

Catweazle wrote:
2020-03-07 15:07
John wrote:
2020-03-07 14:53
I wonder what is different about the Karosel vs Cirkus that now makes it non compatible with third party subchassis or is it Linn just protecting themselves from lawsuits.
I'd guess this is Linn just being prudent. After all, it is not Linn's job to maintain compatibility with third party subchassis vendors. The third party subchassis vendors need to maintain compatibility with Linn - or lose this business.
I could see the Valhalla being a problem, but a subchassis?

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Re: Karousel

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-03-07 16:43

matthias wrote:
2020-03-07 15:08
John wrote:
2020-03-07 14:31
I would have to hear that one. In my experience it seems there is a matching issue with the bearing and subchassis. I thought the Cirkus needed a better subchassis than the original stock steel it was originally supplied with.
I’m more curious how the Karosel/Keel fits into the hierarchy vs the Cirkus with Radikal...
Bearing/subchassis vs Power Supply.
IMO, the turntable hierarchy is like:

1.) Bearing
2.)Motor and power supply
3.)Sub chassis

So I think Karousel/Keel will be superior to Cirkus/Radikal but YMMV

Matt
I am in full agreement with this.
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Re: Karousel

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-03-07 16:58

John wrote:
2020-03-07 16:35
Catweazle wrote:
2020-03-07 15:07
John wrote:
2020-03-07 14:53
I wonder what is different about the Karosel vs Cirkus that now makes it non compatible with third party subchassis or is it Linn just protecting themselves from lawsuits.
I'd guess this is Linn just being prudent. After all, it is not Linn's job to maintain compatibility with third party subchassis vendors. The third party subchassis vendors need to maintain compatibility with Linn - or lose this business.
I could see the Valhalla being a problem, but a subchassis?
I haven't seen anything in the Linn documentation saying it is incompatible with third party subchassis. Only the warning that it "must not be used with Nirvana or Valhalla PSUs or 3rd party clones of these as electrical safety protection issues can carry potential fatal risks." First off I'm trying to figure out what a Nirvana power supply is, but I suppose it is the earlier basic power supply, although I can't see that being a problem as I don't recall it being that close to the bearing housing. The 3rd party part is referring to the Hercules II and other similar PS boards. Things like Armageddon (as noted above), Pink Link and Origin Live motor/power supply units would not be a problem (other than that some of them aren't very good). If people really want to keep their Valhalla or Hercules II and get a Karousel I imagine Edmund will be happy to supply mose kits.

Of course, there could be problems with third party subchassis if they machined a hole too tight to fit the Karousel or if the attachment point is too thick. But if they kept the dimensions the same as Linn has in the various subchassis there shouldn't be a problem. Considering how many third party subchassis have come out over time, made of all kinds of materials, I'd be surprised if there weren't a few that were incompatible, so it would make sense if Linn did spell that out.
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Re: Karousel

Post by sunbeamgls » 2020-03-07 23:55

ThomasOK wrote:
2020-03-07 16:58
John wrote:
2020-03-07 16:35
Catweazle wrote:
2020-03-07 15:07

I'd guess this is Linn just being prudent. After all, it is not Linn's job to maintain compatibility with third party subchassis vendors. The third party subchassis vendors need to maintain compatibility with Linn - or lose this business.
I could see the Valhalla being a problem, but a subchassis?
I haven't seen anything in the Linn documentation saying it is incompatible with third party subchassis. Only the warning that it "must not be used with Nirvana or Valhalla PSUs or 3rd party clones of these as electrical safety protection issues can carry potential fatal risks." First off I'm trying to figure out what a Nirvana power supply is, but I suppose it is the earlier basic power supply, although I can't see that being a problem as I don't recall it being that close to the bearing housing. The 3rd party part is referring to the Hercules II and other similar PS boards. Things like Armageddon (as noted above), Pink Link and Origin Live motor/power supply units would not be a problem (other than that some of them aren't very good). If people really want to keep their Valhalla or Hercules II and get a Karousel I imagine Edmund will be happy to supply mose kits.

Of course, there could be problems with third party subchassis if they machined a hole too tight to fit the Karousel or if the attachment point is too thick. But if they kept the dimensions the same as Linn has in the various subchassis there shouldn't be a problem. Considering how many third party subchassis have come out over time, made of all kinds of materials, I'd be surprised if there weren't a few that were incompatible, so it would make sense if Linn did spell that out.
That's odd, Nirvana was a spring, grommet and bolt kit.
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Re: Karousel

Post by John » 2020-03-08 01:15

Thomas,

Thanks for the clarification,, when I read clone I thought subchassis.
Last edited by John on 2020-03-09 19:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Karousel

Post by Freddy » 2020-03-09 16:38

Is Karousel bearing going to be standard in a new Majik LP12 and Cirkus is going to be discontinued?

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Re: Karousel

Post by anthony » 2020-03-09 16:49

Freddy wrote:
2020-03-09 16:38
Is Karousel bearing going to be standard in a new Majik LP12 and Cirkus is going to be discontinued?
Correct.

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Re: Karousel

Post by Defender » 2020-03-09 19:04

there is a promotion with the Karousel and I wonder if its maybe economically wiser to choose the Sondek only deck instead of the Karousel only because I am thinking of buying a Krystal anyway

Does someone know what the Sondek only package consists of?
is motor included?
is subchassis and armboard included?

I assume plinth, inner and outer platter as well solid base comes with it at least?

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Re: Karousel

Post by matthias » 2020-03-09 20:34

Defender wrote:
2020-03-09 19:04
there is a promotion with the Karousel and I wonder if its maybe economically wiser to choose the Sondek only deck instead of the Karousel only because I am thinking of buying a Krystal anyway

Does someone know what the Sondek only package consists of?
is motor included?
is subchassis and armboard included?

I assume plinth, inner and outer platter as well solid base comes with it at least?
AFAIK, it comes with bearing and the platters, but without sub chassis, motor and base board.
But Thomas knows better for sure.

Matt
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Re: Karousel

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-03-10 17:20

The basic Sondek LP12 is a relatively stripped affair. I believe it still ships with a motor but that motor only works with a Majik power supply, or a Valhalla or Lingo 1, 2, 3 if you are in a 50Hz country. It does not come with a subchassis, armboard, motor controller, or baseplate. So you have the plinth, top plate with all bolts, dust cover, hinges, bearing, inner and outer platters, felt mat and springs, grommets, nuts and washers. Generally speaking the price of the basic Sondek is just the sum of the prices of all the parts, so it is quite possible that it will go up with the inclusion of the Karousel.

The promo is that you get a free Karousel if you buy £3000 (or local equivalent) of other Linn gear so I don't see how buying a basic Sondek would help you. If you plan to get a Krystal you would be around half way there or a little over (I don't know UK and Euro pricing). So the question is might you want a Keel, Radikal, Kore, plinth, etc. at the same time to get you the free Karousel?
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Re: Karousel

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-03-10 17:41

Nice offer and good way to incentivise additional sales.

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Re: Karousel

Post by Defender » 2020-03-10 17:50

thank you for clarification my thought was the
„Sondek Deck only“ sells for 2120,- and the Krystal for 1598,- which lift me over the 3570,- for the promotion ... if the Deck only is eligible for the promotion

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Re: Karousel

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-03-10 18:15

Defender wrote:
2020-03-10 17:50
thank you for clarification my thought was the Sondek Deck only sells for 2120,- and the Krystal for 1598,- which lift me over the 3570,- for the promotion ... if the Deck only is eligible for the promotion
I know of no exclusions from the promotion, but the deck would leave you with a motor you couldn't likely use and an extra Karousel. In the US the price for a Krystal is $1900, add a plinth at $924, an outer platter/mat for $330, a top plate for $275, a cross brace for $30 and a Trampolin 2 for $250 and that would take you to $3709. I don't yet yet know what Linn considers the US currency equivalent of £3000 but I would expect it to be around $3500. With VAT included in the UK figure it is all a little hard to calculate and they haven't told us the actual amount yet. On the other hand, they might exclude parts and only have it apply to finished goods. That would screw the whole above scenario.
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Re: Karousel

Post by cortina » 2020-03-11 20:01

Isn’t the promotion limited to upgrades (of LP12 or other Linn products) for a certain amount to get a ”free” Karousel?

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Re: Karousel

Post by Defender » 2020-03-11 20:17

if you order together with the Karousel Upgrade other Linn products worth over 3570,- Euro you get the Karousel upgrade for free this is how I read/translate it

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Re: Karousel

Post by cortina » 2020-03-11 20:28

Well that is not how it is expressed by one of the Swedish retailers (wrong or right). They clearly write that the qualifying orders need to be upgrades (which of course can be a matter of definition but a deck sounds more like a product than an upgrade.)

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