Karousel

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Tony Tune-age
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Re: Karousel

Post by Tony Tune-age »

I was asked the question, "how long does it take for the Karousel to completely burn-in?" I wasn't sure, but told him mine continued to sound better over a three month period. So maybe it takes around 500 hours for total burn-in time? Or more, or less?
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Re: Karousel

Post by ThomasOK »

This seemed the most appropriate place to post about the new torque experiments I recently made on the Karousel bottom cap. Linn put out a dealer document on recommended torque wrenches for attaching the Karousel to the sub chassis. In the middle of that document they also stated that if you needed to replace the bottom cap on the Karousel that they used 6.5Nm at the factory and didn't recommend going over 7.5Nm. I read this a while ago and decided to ignore it at the time as no Karousels were coming out of the factory at anywhere near 6.5Nm since I could loosen most of them with the 2.4Nm +2 setting or occasionally a touch more. I never needed even 3Nm to get one loose. But there was that nagging doubt in the back of my mind so of course I had to investigate it.

About a month ago I had the advantage of having a customer turntable that that was going to be here for over a month as the owner was on vacation. I was installing a Karousel, Radikal 2 upgrade and Kandid into it, and doing a full setup for the first time, so it was a perfect candidate for testing as I had plenty of time to investigate different torques. With a Radikal it is very easy to adjust the cap with the LP12 in the jig and all hooked up to a system. So I ordered the torque driver I will post a link to and verified the accuracy, fully tuned up the rest of the turntable and set to comparing torques. I tried 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 Nm and only liked 7.0Nm, which sounded really good. I compared it back to 2.4Nm +2 and definitely preferred 7.0. Then I tried 6.9, 7.1 and approximately 7.03 and 7.02. (The driver has click stops at each .1Nm. You can move it in between but not really accurately for small increments.) I found that exactly 7.0Nm on my driver was the best place and to me a true musical improvement over 2.4Nm +2. I tried the 7.0 vs. 2.4+2 on a couple of other turntables I was installing the Karousel into and always came to the same conclusion. When I have done those comparisons with 2.4+2 I have found a more emotional connection to the perfromers regardless of which record I have used for the comparison at the 7.0 setting. So I would say that at this point I am happy with this torque.

Here is the link for the driver I used for this. I have sent one to Fredrik with a couple SSDs I sent him for programming. Also a member on the forum who approached me about it a little while ago ordered one so hopefully we will have other reports soon. Note that I did not do tests below 6.5Nm but there is a fair bit of range between there and 3.5 or 4.0 so if someone wants to investigate further have at it. The torque driver covers the range from 2.0 to 8.0Nm.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DI ... UTF8&psc=1
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John
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Re: Karousel

Post by John »

tpetsch wrote: 2021-12-26 20:17 I learned a long time ago it's not a race -it's a long term mental health working hobby- and it's super easy to loose the tune once you've found it in "your system", all changes should be done one at a time followed by a week or two of break in/listening to achieve the best system integration & outcome. It's also the best way to truly learn about & understand your system. Of course this is easier done if you do the work yourself like may people here do, it's not rocket science after all. Take the new Karousel bearing for example, my friend -an XLinn dealer, retired with over 30 years experience working on LP-12's and Linn factory trained- and I put one into his LP12 and never got it to work right, after several re-mounts and re-torques and two+ weeks of breaking in it was never as musically engaging and in-tune as his original pre-circus black bearing. It's too bad, we were expecting great things, and that was only one change, imagine doing several and not being happy? Which change was it that went wrong?
What subchassis was used for the Karousel?
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Re: Karousel

Post by John »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-04-07 18:50 Just curious, how is the Karousel going down now? Everyone happy? Torques sorted? Anyone changed sides? Everyone of PFM and Naim forums love it. I don’t keep up with Linn WAM to know.

I seem to recall not many disliking it; myself, beck, u252agz, Fredrik and possibly Spankko but not sure. Lego had a dem but it was poorly setup and no conclusion made.

Particularly curious as to what Fredrik thinks now that the dust and torques have settled.
I’m curious in what context the opinion regarding the Karousel was made. Was it in their own system and what subchassis was the Karousel mounted to?
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Re: Karousel

Post by Charlie1 »

I bought a Majik LP12 in the Karousel promo but had a dem too, using Akurate decks.
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Re: Karousel

Post by John »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-10-29 20:26 I bought a Majik LP12 in the Karousel promo but had a dem too, using Akurate decks.
What subchassis was on the Majik deck? I’m not sure when Linn switched over to the Majik subchassis.
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Re: Karousel

Post by Charlie1 »

Majik. Still got it somewhere. Jelco arm
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Re: Karousel

Post by John »

Charlie1 wrote: 2022-10-29 20:26 I bought a Majik LP12 in the Karousel promo but had a dem too, using Akurate decks.
So you had a dem between two Akurate decks, I assume the only variable was the bearing/subplatter and you preferred the Cirkus. How did you end up with a Karousel then?

If this is already documented somewhere maybe you can link me to the discussion.
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Re: Karousel

Post by Charlie1 »

I was looking to build another deck at that time using my spares and ordering the missing elements. Then I realised the promo was such good value that I could order an entire new deck for the same net cost, once I'd sold the free Karousel that came with it, giving me a chance to live with the new Majik deck and decide whether or not it was for me.
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Re: Karousel

Post by lejonklou »

I am curios why you’re asking these questions, John.

It seems like you’re trying to find out whether some combinations are better than others? Or what the folks have in common that prefer Cirkus over Karousel?

I’m just curious.
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Re: Karousel

Post by John »

lejonklou wrote: 2022-10-31 16:01 I am curios why you’re asking these questions, John.

It seems like you’re trying to find out whether some combinations are better than others? Or what the folks have in common that prefer Cirkus over Kariusel?

I’m just curious.
Do you have any insight to offer?
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Re: Karousel

Post by Spannko »

John wrote: 2022-10-31 18:47
lejonklou wrote: 2022-10-31 16:01 I am curios why you’re asking these questions, John.

It seems like you’re trying to find out whether some combinations are better than others? Or what the folks have in common that prefer Cirkus over Kariusel?

I’m just curious.
Do you have any insight to offer?
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Re: Karousel

Post by John »

lejonklou wrote: 2022-10-31 16:01 I am curios why you’re asking these questions, John.

It seems like you’re trying to find out whether some combinations are better than others? Or what the folks have in common that prefer Cirkus over Karousel?

I’m just curious.
I’m just trying to get a better insight to those who didn’t get on with the Karousel as mentioned in one of Charlie’s earlier post. Reading through a couple threads where Karousel is mentioned there’s not a lot of context as to how opinions are formed. Reading one post where someone felt a Majik LP12 with Karousel musically outperformed a Klimax LP12 with Cirkus bearing has me scratching my head how a forum that supports the tune method can have such diverse opinions given the LP12 hierarchy.
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Re: Karousel

Post by Spannko »

John wrote: 2022-11-01 17:34

I’m just trying to get a better insight to those who didn’t get on with the Karousel as mentioned in one of Charlie’s earlier post. Reading through a couple threads where Karousel is mentioned there’s not a lot of context as to how opinions are formed. Reading one post where someone felt a Majik LP12 with Karousel musically outperformed a Klimax LP12 with Cirkus bearing has me scratching my head how a forum that supports the tune method can have such diverse opinions given the LP12 hierarchy.
You need to ask the person concerned. Only they can give you the answers you’re looking for. Have you heard the Karousel yourself, and if so, what did you think of it?
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Re: Karousel

Post by Charlie1 »

90% of folks have loved it. Either get a dem or take the plunge and see how you get on, knowing there's a small chance it won't be for you. If you decide to sell it on then you'll lose out but not too much in the grand scheme of lp12 upgrades. It's the only way to be sure 😀
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