Status in the world of hifi

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Catweazle
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Re: Status in the world of hifi

Post by Catweazle »

Peter Lanky wrote: 2020-02-21 15:36 When listening live, we are enjoying the occasion rather than the quality of the musical reproduction, and getting all excited ...
I think Peter is onto something here. And isn't it similar to the nice red wine which enjoyed us so much on a lovely summer evening sitting on a mediteranian terrace, but frustrated us back home?

Don't underestimate the importancy of context. When Sean Connery once was asked, what he's wearing under the kilt his answer was: "Depends on the occasion!" 😜

Happy listening!
PC or LP12-Krsel-KRad/1-Keel-Ekos SE/1-Akiva-Urika II | KRDSM | KEB/2 | C6100/D | AV5140/038
beck
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Re: Status in the world of hifi

Post by beck »

Catweazle wrote:
Peter Lanky wrote: When listening live, we are enjoying the occasion rather than the quality of the musical reproduction, and getting all excited ...
I think Peter is onto something here. And isn't it similar to the nice red wine which enjoyed us so much on a lovely summer evening sitting on a mediteranian terrace, but frustrated us back home?

Don't underestimate the importancy of context. When Sean Connery once was asked, what he's wearing under the kilt his answer was: "Depends on the occasion!" 😜

Happy listening!
Yes, thank you Peter for your lengthy post.

I do understand the argument.

My situation is that with the Klyde on the Sondek I got what I want from my system. For me it is not about getting there. It is about getting there with digital.

I hear it as a problem for systems (and recordings) to deliver a convincing musical beat.

I am not saying that this should be everybodys goal. I am not even saying it is the right way to present the recorded music.
I am saying it is what I seek. It is what makes me enjoy music the most.


Post edit: as I now am getting very close to what I seek also with my cheap cd player, I now consider it mostly a matter of how the surroundings “corrupt” the digital playback more than digital itself.

Vibrations, not totally stable and precise power from the power plant and more I now consider to be the main reasons for a bad digital playback experience. More than anything else.
Playing cd’s…………
Catweazle
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Re: Status in the world of hifi

Post by Catweazle »

beck wrote: 2020-02-19 13:00 The old analog sound has the ability to draw me into the music almost participating whereas digital makes me more of an observer listening to nice sounds.
While I share this observation, what if this is not caused by the technology, but the 'mental model' of the engineers in the studio?

In the golden era of vinyl, eryone was aware of the imperfections of the medium. Thus, the engineers tried to do their utmost, to convey as much as possible from the studio to the recording.

Then the paradigm changed with the promises of digital. Is it possible that things are done more sloppy in a "we can correct that afterwards by digital editing" fashion?
I observe the same thing in photography. In the analog days, you were carefully thinking about the effect of f-stop on DOF (depth of field), and chose a lens for its bokeh. Now we use photoshop to add some blur.
PC or LP12-Krsel-KRad/1-Keel-Ekos SE/1-Akiva-Urika II | KRDSM | KEB/2 | C6100/D | AV5140/038
beck
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Re: Status in the world of hifi

Post by beck »

I think you are right.

The focus has changed. In the old days it was as much an investigation into the human nature and what makes us react emotionally as it was about the sound itself.

Today focus has shifted much more towards sound itself.

The wisdom in the old thinking is being abandoned for what sells on the spot. Time (more importantly lack of same) and money are key factors.
Playing cd’s…………
Charlie1
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Re: Status in the world of hifi

Post by Charlie1 »

I don't have enough experience with digital to comment on the overall topic but certainly, my entry-level Planar 2 into 32.5/Snaps/250/Isobariks sounds great whilst the LP12 is away. I could happily live with this system if needs be. I doubt I could just plug in an entry-level CD or streamer and be this content after 3-5 hours listening each day.

What I'm getting from this thread is that beck makes a good point, but perhaps it doesn't apply to everyone. Many people are seemingly content with digital that hasn't been painstakingly setup. Perhaps some folks are more sensitive to the downsides of digital than others?
beck
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Re: Status in the world of hifi

Post by beck »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-03-22 12:47
What I'm getting from this thread is that beck makes a good point, but perhaps it doesn't apply to everyone. Many people are seemingly content with digital that hasn't been painstakingly setup. Perhaps some folks are more sensitive to the downsides of digital than others?
Yes, I think it is safe to say that we are all differently wired.
Playing cd’s…………
Spannko
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Re: Status in the world of hifi

Post by Spannko »

beck wrote: 2020-02-22 19:25 I hear it as a problem for systems (and recordings) to deliver a convincing musical beat.

AI am not saying that this should be everybodys goal. I am not even saying it is the right way to present the recorded music.
I am saying it is what I seek. It is what makes me enjoy music the most.


Post edit: as I now am getting very close to what I seek also with my cheap cd player, I now consider it mostly a matter of how the surroundings “corrupt” the digital playback more than digital itself.

Vibrations, not totally stable and precise power from the power plant and more I now consider to be the main reasons for a bad digital playback experience. More than anything else.
You make some good points here beck.

Re: A.
I think the main reason people struggle with their systems is that they use really vague outcome criteria. Focusing on a musically related outcome helps to ensure that when we move out of analysing mode, the system will still be enjoyable to listen to. I think this is why you have been so successful with your CD player experiments in particular. Trial & error, with a musically related focus, is the way to go.

Re: B.
I agree. Vibrations seem to affect absolutely everything in our systems, analog or digital. I read recently that one explanation for Klimax outperforming Akurate is that the mass and construction of Klimax lowers the resonant frequency of the case to below the audio band. I don’t know if this has been tested, but it certainly makes sense.

Naim have known about the effects of vibration getting into equipment via cables and interconnects since the 1980’s when they used to recommend that the locking ring on the interconnects be left loose.

Also, there’s a mains block available which has just been upgraded by the addition of a peek layer to reduce vibration being conducted along the power line. I haven’t heard it, but it’s had some very good reviews on the Naim and pfm forums.
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