Brikin' It !

[maffe]

This thing about ”break in time” When it come to equipment that is over 30 years?
Is it not more of “get used to the sound time” we’re talking about?

[Charlie1]

Could you make the same clip with 12/160 and AT95c/AT95e?

I've got just the one clip but they were recorded on different occasions / different times of day. For example, this morning the room was still very cold when recording the 110 clips (although amps were powered on all night), but not ideal. Whereas, the 160 clip below was done in the evening when the room was nice and warm:
12/110: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0arw85t8fyip4 ... D.MOV?dl=0
12/160: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnyrtwnvrfbl6 ... D.MOV?dl=0

I really enjoy the 160 too but it doesn't provide clean enough sound for long-term enjoyment with Kans or Briks - some LPs are fantastic but some are annoying / distracting. The Keilidhs were fine but they are a different animal.

[Charlie1]

Hi Charlie1,
If I may suggest ... don't make fast decision ... let Briks first standard break in time ... but as well to all pre-amps and amp normal break in time ... 110/160/250 // 12/32 also need time ...
I have done mistakes in the past ... so ... don't do it ...
Choose pre and amp that is long in use in your system and enjoy in Briks ... they are great, as are great your other equipment ...

Thanks for your comments.
Do you mean break in time after service or just settling down time within the system?

[beck]

I agree with Vlado.

Your Elton John clip earlier using 12/160 and AT95c really hits me where I forget the sound and everything around me. Something good is going on. :-)

[V.A.MKD]

I have Nait2 (and as well other equipment) small ... 25+ years ... break in ... OK ...
When I don't listen to it / power off more than 4-5 weeks, when I power on it ... it need again 50+h (including all cables) to start sing at max quality ... and this statement is from experience not snake oil, black magic or ... :-)
But this is only my experience ... just saying ... :-)

[V.A.MKD]

Hi Charlie1,
If I may suggest ... don't make fast decision ... let Briks first standard break in time ... but as well to all pre-amps and amp normal break in time ... 110/160/250 // 12/32 also need time ...
I have done mistakes in the past ... so ... don't do it ...
Choose pre and amp that is long in use in your system and enjoy in Briks ... they are great, as are great your other equipment ...

Thanks for your comments.
Do you mean break in time after service or just settling down time within the system?

No no no service, just setting down time within the system ...

[V.A.MKD]

Could you make the same clip with 12/160 and AT95c/AT95e?

I've got just the one clip but they were recorded on different occasions / different times of day. For example, this morning the room was still very cold when recording the 110 clips (although amps were powered on all night), but not ideal. Whereas, the 160 clip below was done in the evening when the room was nice and warm:
12/110: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0arw85t8fyip4 ... D.MOV?dl=0
12/160: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnyrtwnvrfbl6 ... D.MOV?dl=0

I really enjoy the 160 too but it doesn't provide clean enough sound for long-term enjoyment with Kans or Briks - some LPs are fantastic but some are annoying / distracting. The Keilidhs were fine but they are a different animal.

This is something different and right direction ... if 160 is not ... on a long term, it's not ... try 110 ... or go on 32/hi/250 ... but again on long term ... at list let it power on over night and listen at list 3-4 days ... 100+h ...
Here on forum ... some experience say break in, but with playing music not only power on ... that is as well my experience ...

[V.A.MKD]

Could you make the same clip with 12/160 and AT95c/AT95e?

Yes beck ... +1

[V.A.MKD]

Chalie1 you can use tuner (to avoid TT) for break in with music ... and as well as background music while you work ... I often use it ... :-)

[Charlie1]

This is something different and right direction ... if 160 is not ... on a long term, it's not ... try 110 ... or go on 32/hi/250 ... but again on long term ... at list let it power on over night and listen at list 3-4 days ... 100+h ...
Here on forum ... some experience say break in, but with playing music not only power on ... that is as well my experience ...

I don't for one moment doubt the benefit of running amps continuously for a week or more. I've done so 2-3 times and been rewarded. However, they never change their fundamental character or ranking to my ears. I ran the 250 for over a week and it was definitely better but it was always a step behind the others - musically - to my ears anyway.

However, I will definitely leave the 12/110 on 24/7 and let it settle as you suggest. I think the 250 has to go.

I don't like leaving the 160 on overnight cos it's not been serviced since 2003. Maybe I shouldn't worry but I do.

[Charlie1]

Chalie1 you can use tuner (to avoid TT) for break in with music ... and as well as background music while you work ... I often use it ... :-)

I have a Technics midi system I can connect but that's all.

[Charlie1]

Your Elton John clip earlier using 12/160 and AT95c really hits me where I forget the sound and everything around me. Something good is going on. :-)

That was mostly midrange though wasn't it - piano and vocals - so no phasiness. I've noticed they are great with piano. The dedicated KEF midrange unit definitely provides better midrange than any other speaker I've owned which have all been entry-level AFAIR, except Kans.

[V.A.MKD]

This is something different and right direction ... if 160 is not ... on a long term, it's not ... try 110 ... or go on 32/hi/250 ... but again on long term ... at list let it power on over night and listen at list 3-4 days ... 100+h ...
Here on forum ... some experience say break in, but with playing music not only power on ... that is as well my experience ...

I don't for one moment doubt the benefit of running amps continuously for a week or more. I've done so 2-3 times and been rewarded. However, they never change their fundamental character or ranking to my ears. I ran the 250 for over a week and it was definitely better but it was always a step behind the others - musically - to my ears anyway.

However, I will definitely leave the 12/110 on 24/7 and let it settle as you suggest. I think the 250 has to go.

I don't like leaving the 160 on overnight cos it's not been serviced since 2003. Maybe I shouldn't worry but I do.

32.5/HI/110 or 160 maybe is way to go ...

[beck]

Well, reading all the above taking note of your comments you should just let the 12/110 combo play for a long time and see how far you can get with. :-)

[Charlie1]

32.5/HI/110 or 160 maybe is way to go ...

Whenever I connect the Hicap (or Snaps) then something gets worse, although the sound is always clearer and punchier. I suspect it's timing related but I don't really know. I know most people prefer them but it just doesn't work for me, even with the 32.5 and its star earthing design.

[V.A.MKD]

32.5/HI/110 or 160 maybe is way to go ...

Whenever I connect the Hicap (or Snaps) then something gets worse, although the sound is always clearer and punchier. I suspect it's timing related but I don't really know. I know most people prefer them but it just doesn't work for me, even with the 32.5 and its star earthing design.

Yes, here was mentioned something about it ...

[AlbannachFE]

@Charlie1

Adding a PSU to a Naim pre results in a far more revealing set-up, so it could be that your apparent dislike of them is related to that? When I owned a 72/140, and added a Hi-Cap, it was clearly better in many respects, but the end results didn't seem quite as much 'fun'; the simple, 'broader brush strokes' performance sans Hi-Cap was more enjoyable, but CD was (and still is) my main source, so the ongoing search for the most musical performance from that medium began (and continues!).

I'm still surprised by your disappointment by the 250, though - with the possible exception of 135s, it's Naim's best amp, IME. However, it's your ears that need to be satisfied.

IME, leaving Naim electronics on 24/7 is necessary to get optimal performance.

Moving the Pre-amps as far away from self-powered items will likely improve things, too.

Finally, perhaps servicing the 160 might address the reservations you have about its performance (as well as providing some peace of mind re. leaving it on?)?

BTW, how do you keep finding all this great equipment?!

[Charlie1]

Moving the Pre-amps as far away from self-powered items will likely improve things, too.

I would need to stack the Lack's but that's do-able.

Finally, perhaps servicing the 160 might address the reservations you have about its performance (as well as providing some peace of mind re. leaving it on?)?

Yes, perhaps that's the way forward. Maybe it will add some clarity too. Besides, I only have one 12/110 and that was supposed to be for the main system with Kans.

BTW, how do you keep finding all this great equipment?!

Mostly on ebay - both the 160 and 250 came from there.
I picked up a mint CB Nait 2 on Pink Fish (albeit faulty) but that's now sold. Class A serviced/repaired it and it went to Asia for £800.
I once telephoned every UK Naim dealer - took ages. But that's how I found the 32/110.
Also got the serviced 32.5/Hi from someone that worked at a dealer but that was through a contact.

[tokenbrit]

Do you hear a lot of Naim prat in those clips? I don't seem to notice it.

Problem with the 250 is that I always feel another step removed from the music.

I wouldn't say a lot but there's a definite timing from that leading edge Naim signature, to my ears at least...

When you say it's the 250 that removes you from the music, do you know that it's the power amp rather than the pre-? Can you use the 12 with the 250 so you're only changing one thing at a time? Can you use the 32 without the Hi-Cap, as the power supply always seems to trigger a negative musical response for you... How much have you played with the position of the speakers, or is that really the only place they'll fit? (wondering if the pitched ceiling is coming into play more with the 'bariks with their upward facing drivers)

Can you remind me/us: are these changes to scratch an itch of interest in new (to you) components; to see if there are improvements to be had over what you've got, or to address something specific with your system?
With so many options, it feels like you're not really settled. Are you set on your source(s) and it's finding the right in-room presentation from the system? Working back from the speakers, changing power, pre, and cart to suit, seems like the wrong way, hierarchically, to get where you want to be... But it is good fun :) As long as you're enjoying yourself, and not getting lost in the options, or frustrated...
Maybe pick your current preferred set-up, with the 'bariks, and just let some music play for a few weeks...

[Charlie1]

When you say it's the 250 that removes you from the music, do you know that it's the power amp rather than the pre-? Can you use the 12 with the 250 so you're only changing one thing at a time? Can you use the 32 without the Hi-Cap, as the power supply always seems to trigger a negative musical response for you... How much have you played with the position of the speakers, or is that really the only place they'll fit? (wondering if the pitched ceiling is coming into play more with the 'bariks with their upward facing drivers)

Can you remind me/us: are these changes to scratch an itch of interest in new (to you) components; to see if there are improvements to be had over what you've got, or to address something specific with your system?
With so many options, it feels like you're not really settled. Are you set on your source(s) and it's finding the right in-room presentation from the system? Working back from the speakers, changing power, pre, and cart to suit, seems like the wrong way, hierarchically, to get where you want to be... But it is good fun :) As long as you're enjoying yourself, and not getting lost in the options, or frustrated...
Maybe pick your current preferred set-up, with the 'bariks, and just let some music play for a few weeks...

I've compared the 12 to the 32, 42 and 32.5. I prefer it with all power amps, with or without Snaps/Hicap. If I use the 32 or 32/5 cards in the 12, then I still prefer the 12. It's quite a lot better to my ears. The 32 in particular seems to truncate notes and remove the normal decay. The 32.5 is my next preference. The 42 was sold on.

I've compared the 110 and 160 to the 250 using the same pre with external PSU. The gap is lessened when using a Snaps/Hicap each time but I still prefer the 110 and 160 by a decent margin.

I've not played with speaker positioning yet. I can't face it yet :D

I was happy with the Keilidhs but am naturally curious, as you may have noticed :). The world of vintage Naim allows my curiousity to get the better of me cos the cost of selling on kit is relatively low.

I wasn't happy with any speaker on my main system so the pursuit of getting Kans to work was more important than this but that's done now.

You're right, this is arse about face, same as the Kans but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

I'm happy with the Valhalla/Ittok deck as is, so not looking to improve that - other than toy with cheap AT carts. I will connect up the Radikal deck at some point, just out of curiousity though. See what these Briks do with a higher resoution source.

I think you're right, leave the 12/110 in play for a few weeks. I'm really enjoying this partnership so far.

They really do open up the recorded space. I feel I'm sitting in the studio instead of looking through a little window, especially with Jazz. I'm enjoying jazz a lot more than normal actually.

[Charlie1]

I couldn't resist hearing this famous bass line. It sounded amazing in the room but absolutely sh1te on the computer so I wasn't gonna put it on but at least you can hear the bass line OK:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgg4kst8rkoat ... D.MOV?dl=0

[tokenbrit]

They really do open up the recorded space. I feel I'm sitting in the studio instead of looking through a little window...

That's definitely the sense I get from your clips.

[beck]

You have the bass “record” here now Charlie1 💪 and what a lovely bass it is!

If you ever get the foolish idea of parting with these speakers I guess a few people here are getting ready to buy! :-)


One more thing: never waist a good clip. We cannot get enough (I can never get enough). :-)

[ThomasOK]

I can somewhat see why you like the 110 better, but then I don't like the 12 on top of the 160.

By the way, I'm not sure tokenbrit got that you can't use a 250 without a separate preamp power supply. The 250 does not have the output from the internal PS to drive the preamp, unlike the 110 and 160.

Quite a conundrum, though, since a 110 can't drive Isobariks. ;-)

[tokenbrit]

I can somewhat see why you like the 110 better, but then I don't like the 12 on top of the 160.

By the way, I'm not sure tokenbrit got that you can't use a 250 without a separate preamp power supply. The 250 does not have the output from the internal PS to drive the preamp, unlike the 110 and 160.

Quite a conundrum, though, since a 110 can't drive Isobariks. ;-)

It wasn't that I didn't get it - that was why I was asking ;) I figured there must be a reason why it was always 32.5/Hi... :)

Conundrum? Tundra time! ;)