Melco S100 Network Switch

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teatime
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by teatime »

I cannot tell them apart.

First I thought I had a preference for 2, but I don't trust myself to not be influenced by the votes, so I didn't post anything. Then I redid it blindly 30 minutes later.. and nothing happens. I have no significant first impression, and the more I play the clips, the less I want to hear them...

So.. no preference. I guess I won't be buying the Melco either...
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by matthias »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-07-12 23:19 Stunned at the price comparison: Melco more than 20 times the price of the Netgear? I realise that it's often a case of diminishing returns, but the difference between the clips seems considerably less than the difference in price - I prefer clip 2; hoping that's the Netgear but, even if that's the Melco, I'd be more inclined to put the extra $$$ towards a Kålla, than switch switches.
I would not buy a new switch before listening to the Harting with a good SMPS as well.

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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Eli7 »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-07-12 23:19 Stunned at the price comparison: Melco more than 20 times the price of the Netgear? I realise that it's often a case of diminishing returns, but the difference between the clips seems considerably less than the difference in price - I prefer clip 2; hoping that's the Netgear but, even if that's the Melco, I'd be more inclined to put the extra $$$ towards a Kålla, than switch switches.
I have long suspected that my system is playing sub-optimally. My listening room is very unfavourable. The possibilities of optimally integrating my system into the room are limited. I also had a Majik LP12 here and used it to correct the speaker position by a few millimetres. It was easier with it. The differences between Melco and Netgear are probably much greater if everything could be in the right place. On the other hand, I don't find the Majik system at the dealer's astonishing either, and the room there is much better. And maybe it's just what it is.

Tonight will be the resolution of the comparison. Then we'll continue. So, if you still want to vote, feel free to do so. Every vote is very welcome.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by kampak »

easy one, #2 for me.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Spannko »

I hear 2 being just a bit better than 1.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Eli7 »

Thanks for participating so eagerly.
I have now also listened to the clips. It is interesting that you can hear it so clearly and I am also clearly in favour of 2.

2 = Melco S100

So let's continue with Melco S100 vs Melco S100/Sbooster

1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/60wzik2clxtstrs/12.m4a?dl=0
2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/on9x1cdvaiwb9ho/6.m4a?dl=0
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Spannko »

So there’s a preference for the Melco over the Netgear! Apart from the price, that’s great news.

Sorry to ask, but were we listening to both with their stock power supplies? And will we hear the Netgear + sBooster combo?
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by ThomasOK »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-07-12 20:48 Comparison Netgear GS 108Tv2 against Melco S100.

Enjoy.

1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rjp1kt6wwr7t57/13.m4a?dl=0
2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/iun907arzz6tfef/5.m4a?dl=0
You couldn't have picked a more familiar tune! The guys here will be glad to tell you how sick of this song they are as I used to play it all the time in tuning turntables. When orienting the platter, belt, mat and setting arm height, tracking and anti-skating on an LP12 it was played dozens of times on each table, thousands of times over the years. One salesperson here even came up to me once and said he'd pay me $10 to use another song - any other song! While I now mostly use "Hey Nineteen" by Steely Dan I still find anti-skate easier with Gordon's voice.

I definitely prefer clip 2.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by ThomasOK »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-07-13 17:24 Thanks for participating so eagerly.
I have now also listened to the clips. It is interesting that you can hear it so clearly and I am also clearly in favour of 2.

2 = Melco S100

So let's continue with Melco S100 vs Melco S100/Sbooster

1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/60wzik2clxtstrs/12.m4a?dl=0
2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/on9x1cdvaiwb9ho/6.m4a?dl=0
This is a track I'm not familiar with but I rather like. On this one I prefer the first clip. I was enjoying it so much on first listen that my thought was clip 2 would have to be really special to beat this. It wasn't. Clip 2 just didn't do it for me. I went back to clip 1 and listened to the end. Very nice.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Eli7 »

Spannko wrote: 2021-07-13 17:37 So there’s a preference for the Melco over the Netgear! Apart from the price, that’s great news.

Sorry to ask, but were we listening to both with their stock power supplies? And will we hear the Netgear + sBooster combo?
Netgear and Melco both had their stock power supply.

I don't know if I'll manage to make any more recordings. Everything has to go back to the shop tomorrow.
Would also very much like to still make recordings of Netgear vs Netgear/ Adot Kit. ...
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Eli7 »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-07-13 17:49
Eli7 wrote: 2021-07-12 20:48 Comparison Netgear GS 108Tv2 against Melco S100.

Enjoy.

1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rjp1kt6wwr7t57/13.m4a?dl=0
2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/iun907arzz6tfef/5.m4a?dl=0
You couldn't have picked a more familiar tune! The guys here will be glad to tell you how sick of this song they are as I used to play it all the time in tuning turntables. When orienting the platter, belt, mat and setting arm height, tracking and anti-skating on an LP12 it was played dozens of times on each table, thousands of times over the years. One salesperson here even came up to me once and said he'd pay me $10 to use another song - any other song! While I now mostly use "Hey Nineteen" by Steely Dan I still find anti-skate easier with Gordon's voice.

I definitely prefer clip 2.
Sorry Thomas, to make my job and therefore my life easier, only Lightfoot and Johnson will continue to follow....:)



...But there is good news: I quickly made clips of Netgear/Sbooster, Netgear/Adot-Kit and Netgear/Adot-Kit/Sbooster.
So we will have a lot of pleasurable work ahead of us. :) :)
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by matthias »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-07-13 17:24 So let's continue with Melco S100 vs Melco S100/Sbooster
1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/60wzik2clxtstrs/12.m4a?dl=0
2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/on9x1cdvaiwb9ho/6.m4a?dl=0
#1 for me

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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by kampak »

#1 gets another vote from here
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by teatime »

#2 here. :D
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Spannko »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-07-13 17:24 Thanks for participating so eagerly.
I have now also listened to the clips. It is interesting that you can hear it so clearly and I am also clearly in favour of 2.

2 = Melco S100

So let's continue with Melco S100 vs Melco S100/Sbooster

1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/60wzik2clxtstrs/12.m4a?dl=0
2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/on9x1cdvaiwb9ho/6.m4a?dl=0
No 1 for me too.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Charlie1 »

Found this one much harder and had to go back and forth a lot. They are slightly different and I get different things out of each. If pushed to decide, I could relax into the groove a bit more with #2 so would go for that one
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by u252agz »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-07-12 23:19 Stunned at the price comparison: Melco more than 20 times the price of the Netgear? I realise that it's often a case of diminishing returns, but the difference between the clips seems considerably less than the difference in price - I prefer clip 2; hoping that's the Netgear but, even if that's the Melco, I'd be more inclined to put the extra $$$ towards a Kålla, than switch switches.
I heard quite a big difference, but given the invetment required ( for a network switch!) would have to try the Melco at home, now that we know it was no 2 .

If the improvement is confirmed as being 'big' - I would have to consider the Melco.

In some ways it is just an upgrade with a price attached to it - just because it is not a piece of Hi Fi gear that we are familiar with, it does not mean it is worth any less.

Its the same with NAS drives and Streaming services I suppose. You have to attach a value to the improvement in musicality that you think you are getting.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by tokenbrit »

u252agz wrote: 2021-07-14 13:43
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-07-12 23:19 Stunned at the price comparison: Melco more than 20 times the price of the Netgear? I realise that it's often a case of diminishing returns, but the difference between the clips seems considerably less than the difference in price - I prefer clip 2; hoping that's the Netgear but, even if that's the Melco, I'd be more inclined to put the extra $$$ towards a Kålla, than switch switches.
I heard quite a big difference, but given the invetment required ( for a network switch!) would have to try the Melco at home, now that we know it was no 2 .

If the improvement is confirmed as being 'big' - I would have to consider the Melco.

In some ways it is just an upgrade with a price attached to it - just because it is not a piece of Hi Fi gear that we are familiar with, it does not mean it is worth any less.

Its the same with NAS drives and Streaming services I suppose. You have to attach a value to the improvement in musicality that you think you are getting.
I realise that it may have come across that way - $/£ for a switch - but I meant it in the context of the music & improvement in the sense of the system. I preferred the Melco but the cost, as a musical component, needs to be considered against other upgrades... As you indicate, an audition at home would be sensible, but also think it'd be worth ensuring the rest of the system is optimised and, for that outlay, would have to compare against a digital source (& other) upgrade(s), such as Kālla with a selection of switches. I have a feeling my money would be figuratively & literally on Fredrik to have created something that more fundamentally moves the needle than the difference I hear between 108T & S100 in these clips. Trust, but verify ;)
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by beck »

There is only one way and it never stops. We know what to listen for but it is still hard to get right.

I am sitting here enjoying cd’s like I never imagined possible only because I never gave up on the way. Digital is a beast to get right.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Eli7 »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-07-14 14:58
u252agz wrote: 2021-07-14 13:43
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-07-12 23:19 Stunned at the price comparison: Melco more than 20 times the price of the Netgear? I realise that it's often a case of diminishing returns, but the difference between the clips seems considerably less than the difference in price - I prefer clip 2; hoping that's the Netgear but, even if that's the Melco, I'd be more inclined to put the extra $$$ towards a Kålla, than switch switches.
I heard quite a big difference, but given the invetment required ( for a network switch!) would have to try the Melco at home, now that we know it was no 2 .

If the improvement is confirmed as being 'big' - I would have to consider the Melco.

In some ways it is just an upgrade with a price attached to it - just because it is not a piece of Hi Fi gear that we are familiar with, it does not mean it is worth any less.

Its the same with NAS drives and Streaming services I suppose. You have to attach a value to the improvement in musicality that you think you are getting.
I realise that it may have come across that way - $/£ for a switch - but I meant it in the context of the music & improvement in the sense of the system. I preferred the Melco but the cost, as a musical component, needs to be considered against other upgrades... As you indicate, an audition at home would be sensible, but also think it'd be worth ensuring the rest of the system is optimised and, for that outlay, would have to compare against a digital source (& other) upgrade(s), such as Kālla with a selection of switches. I have a feeling my money would be figuratively & literally on Fredrik to have created something that more fundamentally moves the needle than the difference I hear between 108T & S100 in these clips. Trust, but verify ;)
If Source First is the foundation, then the switch is more important than the streamer.
Or is it not?
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Eli7 »

Now that I have listened to the clips, I vote clearly for 1.
Interestingly, I had a different impression when I listened to the songs via the system.

So we have:
5 votes for 1.
2 votes for 2.

So the winner is 1 = Melco/Sbooster
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by Eli7 »

So let's move on to Melco/Sbooster vs Melco/Sbooster/Adot (Linear power supply).

1) https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxpmqu5lbqvgx ... 9.m4a?dl=0
2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/45yrgresdx1ma ... 9.m4a?dl=0
Last edited by Eli7 on 2021-07-14 19:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by matthias »

Eli7 wrote: 2021-07-14 17:33 If Source First is the foundation, then the switch is more important than the streamer.
Or is it not?
No it is not. Some systems perform better without a switch.

Quoting Fredrik:
"The consensus has been that adding a switch between the router and the streamer is beneficial to the sound and musicality. With Källa, we have found that this is not always the case. With a bad sounding router, the addition of a switch is positive - the switch has a "smoothing" character. But with a good sounding router, it isn't always better to add a switch."

My personal opinion is that is it the same with adding fiber to a network.

So it makes more sense to consider better routers than better switches.

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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by u252agz »

Thanks for reminding me of Fredericks findings - it reminds me to try my KDS/2 with and without the Netgear switch.

I have one spare port on my router and I am assuming that as I use Spotify , I can easily connect it directly to the streamer, and bypass the switch.
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Re: Melco S100 Network Switch

Post by FairPlayMotty »

matthias wrote: 2021-07-14 18:47
Eli7 wrote: 2021-07-14 17:33 If Source First is the foundation, then the switch is more important than the streamer.
Or is it not?
No it is not. Some systems perform better without a switch.

Quoting Fredrik:
"The consensus has been that adding a switch between the router and the streamer is beneficial to the sound and musicality. With Källa, we have found that this is not always the case. With a bad sounding router, the addition of a switch is positive - the switch has a "smoothing" character. But with a good sounding router, it isn't always better to add a switch."

My personal opinion is that is it the same with adding fiber to a network.

So it makes more sense to consider better routers than better switches.

Matt
Until you've heard a Harting switch I'd not jump to conclusions. I've tried numerous switches and a few routers. Not one of them had the wow factor of a Harting switch.
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