LP 12 Upgrade Path

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HernyB
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LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by HernyB »

Hello!
My next upgrade will be either a Radikal or a Ekos SE/1 tonearm. I started the LP12 journey in 2018 with a new model. The player is now equipped with Keel, Lingo 4, Ekos 2 and a Krystal cartridge. I am really enjoying the actual sound of my system .
Is it possible to compare the two upgrades regarding their benefits for the player? My Linn dealer was recommending the tonearm upgrade because of the Lingo 4 beeing closer to the Radikal than the Ekos 2 to the Ekos SE/1. I am listening mostly to contemporary Indie Rock/Pop/Folk music with a passion for female singers. I am very sensitive with the high frequencies and sibilants tending more towards a soft and silky high frequency range.
My Mark Levinson devices are doing a wonderful job when it comes to softness and smoothness.
I would appreciate your thoughts on what direction i could go.
Thank you!
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maffe
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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by maffe »

Entity?
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Tony Tune-age
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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by Tony Tune-age »

As stated by maffe, the Entity makes sense too. And needless to say, the Ekos SE/1 is certainly a good move. Which ever upgrade you feel most strongly about, get that first. Enjoy the journey...

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Tony Tune-age
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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by Defender »

I think the most sense with respect to musicality would be to upgrade to Radikal, than Ekos SE/1 than Entity ... however I might not completely following that path by myself because the Entity is just so easy to integrate.
None of those upgrades is/are a waste of money - you might end up doing them anyway in one or the other sequence.
Last edited by Defender on 2020-01-29 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by V.A.MKD »

I vote for Entity first ...
As your dealer already say, Lingo 4 / Radikal and Ekos 2 / SE are very close in quality, big jump in musicality will be Entity, since that Entity is much more in Tune with LP12 (Lingo 4, Ekos 2 and Krystal) than your actual phono section on your Mark Levinson.
With out question Radikal & SE are ...
This is my opinion ...
All the best
Music First ...
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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by HernyB »

Thank you for your suggestions. I might have the chance to listen to an Entity in May when i am staying in Amsterdam for a couple of days. Maybe i bring my ML 25 with me. I am still interested in what could be the differences between those 2 upgrades sonically wise with my given electronics and speakers.
Thank you
Hubertus
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Tony Tune-age
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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by Tony Tune-age »

As for what to expect from the Entity, your current tonearm will sound better. The Entity will reveal more of what the Ekos II is capable of producing, which means a more musical sound. For me, the Entity removed obstructions from the music.

An upgrade from Ekos II to the Ekos SE or SE/1 will be significant as well. With the better tonearm, the system will sound more musical. The better Ekos tonearms will provide much better support to the cartridge, and will reveal more of what the cartridge is capable of producing.

In my particular situation, I decided to upgrade the Ekos SE to the SE/1, and the ARadikal to the KRadikal before getting any new phono preamplifier. However that was primarily due to me not knowing much about the Entity, and at the time I was still okay with the Linn Urika. It wasn't until a week (or two) after the upgrades, that I really began learning more about the Entity.

Either upgrade will produce a better sound. And if you plan on going all the way with your LP12 eventually anyway, then it may no matter much which you choose first. Hope this helps.

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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by Ianw »

You are in a fortunate position being able to consider there upgrades.

First off I don’t know the merits of your existing phono so can’t make meaningful comment there.

How you move on depends on your future plan for the LP12. If you’re going to go for a top music Klimax player the path is clear; source first because you cannot replace information that has been lost at source.

1. Replace L4 with Radikal and preferably a Klimax case model if your end goal is top music. I’ve done Akurate Radikal to Klimax and it’s worthwhile.
2. Keel in place so that’s sorted already.
3. Ekos 2 to Ekos or SE or, (SE/1 if purchasing new) is a worthwhile upgrade in music retrieval I’ve done this myself.

In doing this you will have all the biggest source retrieval components in place; all designed and engineered to work together.
You will also get strong money for your L4 and Ekos 2 as they are highly desirable.

Then take a pause and savour the results.

Final push would be Cart and phono.

All just my opinion and others opinions are valid.

Does your dealer have facilities to demonstrate the differences to give you comfort that your result will be worth your expenditure including expertise in a professional set up and tuning?

Enjoy the journey as you are in A fortunate position.


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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by ThomasOK »

You will get a significant musical upgrade with both of those two upgrades (and likely with an Entity as well - but you need to compare it yourself to the phono stage you now use). However, the Radikal is the more important and fundamental musical upgrade. I don't agree that the Lingo 4 is closer to the Radial than the Ekos 2 is to the Ekos SE/1, and I do own all four of those components. Furthermore, it is really not a matter of the quantity of the difference as it is of the quality and importance of it. It has been demonstrated repeatedly that there is a hierarchy in terms of upgrading a system and in upgrading a turntable. The main bearing comes first but since that is Cirkus on all LP12s made since the early 90s we don't need to consider that. Then it is the motor/power supply, the subchassis, the arm and the cartridge. While the Ekos SE/1 is indeed a fair amount more musical, allowing the cartridge to dig more information out of the groove thereby sounding more musical, in control and more involving, that improvement will be significantly less that a Radikal will make. It will allow the vinyl to deliver more information to the stylus so that you hear greater musical dynamics, better phrasing, more power and yet more finesse in sound and in the playing.

Yes, the Klimax version of the Radikal is even better than the Akurate version, but either is a substantial step forward compared to the Ekos SE/1. If you did the Keel by itself and remember what a major improvement it made to the music, I can assure you that the Radikal will be even more significant. If Ron the Mon gets in on this he will happily tell you that when I installed an Akurate Radikal on his Cirkus LP12 along with a Linn Basik LV-X and Audio Technica AT 95e we compared it to my second LP12 with Lingo 2, Kore, Ekos 2 and Adikt cartridge. Despite my having a superior subchassis, substantially superior arm and much better cartridge (and even a better plinth at the time) his Radikal LP12 was easily more musical than my Lingo 2 one. The Lingo 4 is indeed better than the Lingo 2 but not enough better to make up the distance to the Radikal. So if you want the best musical upgrade for the money go for the Radikal first. Considering the value of the pieces you have to trade or sell I expect that the Radikal would likely end up being the less expensive upgrade as well, unless you decide to step all the way up to the Klimax Radikal as I and others have done.
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HernyB
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Re: LP 12 Upgrade Path

Post by HernyB »

Thank you so much for your thoughts and comments! Since i followed the upgrade hierarchy from the beginning i think i go for the Radikal first as Thomas OK is suggesting. My dealer offered me a reasonable trade-in price for the Lingo 4. I hope i get the chance to compare my ML 25 phonopre with the Entity! Right now i am enyoing the Keel upgrade with every record i put on!
LP12, Keel, ARad.2, Ekos SE/1, Krystal, Blue 42, Icon 4 Pro, Pass Labs XA25, Tannoy Stirling SE
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