Some observations from cd replay

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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beck
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by beck »

Last cd clip and then full focus back on analog:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wqpkj4a0x81f ... 8.mov?dl=0
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by V.A.MKD »

Nice, the best from your cd player. It will be good if you have this album on Lp, to compare ...
beck wrote: 2020-02-02 18:43 Last cd clip and then full focus back on analog:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wqpkj4a0x81f ... 8.mov?dl=0
Music First ...
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by FairPlayMotty »

beck wrote: 2020-02-02 18:43 Last cd clip and then full focus back on analog:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wqpkj4a0x81f ... 8.mov?dl=0
For me Painted From Memory is one of the most underrated albums. The ripped SACD is sounding great via the Hakai.
Shame it was CD only on release - MOFI have the vinyl out now but I would've preferred the vinyl at the album release date.
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.
beck
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by beck »

Thank you for the comments. I do have clips that can show differences between my Nad Cd player and my Sondek though not using the above clip.

Not surprising the Sondek is still way ahead but on the surface the presentation is much alike.
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beck
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by beck »

I have now for a while enjoyed my cd replay with my system and what seems to be consensus with vinyl to avoid remastered reissues of analog recorded music is also what I hear when playing cd’s.

They loose some of the normal “human” sound and become more artificial sounding. AAD is closest to good analog and from there on it just get’s less and less “human”.

Recordings that started out as digital are just different sounding to analog recordings. Is it the recording technic or the surroundings (influence on replay equipment) or both I do not know.
Playing cd’s…………
beck
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

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Well, as my setup settles and the music gets better and better from my cd player I sit back and think that if what I am getting now was easy to get from a new £300 cd player many would just enjoy the music it makes and get on with their life.

Another thing I have noticed is how easy it is to hear differences between cd’s with the same music on them.
Some are great and some are not so great. The sound quality differs.

It can be because of a bad master, bad transfer, bad cd itself or something else. The problem is that it is not possible to know which cd sounds good before you listen to it.............
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by Charlie1 »

Cheap though and fun searching for new music.

Vinyl is getting quite expensive these days, especially early pressings, so I'm sure you're having more fun buying new music.
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by V.A.MKD »

beck wrote: 2020-03-04 13:35 Another thing I have noticed is how easy it is to hear differences between cd’s with the same music on them.
Some are great and some are not so great. The sound quality differs.

It can be because of a bad master, bad transfer, bad cd itself or something else. The problem is that it is not possible to know which cd sounds good before you listen to it.............
+1 ... The same issue as with LP ...
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by V.A.MKD »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-03-04 13:50 Cheap though and fun searching for new music.

Vinyl is getting quite expensive these days, especially early pressings, so I'm sure you're having more fun buying new music.
Yes Charlie1, most important, searching and buying new music ...
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by V.A.MKD »

beck wrote: 2020-02-19 12:20 They loose some of the normal “human” sound and become more artificial sounding. AAD is closest to good analog and from there on it just get’s less and less “human”.

Recordings that started out as digital are just different sounding to analog recordings. Is it the recording technic or the surroundings (influence on replay equipment) or both I do not know.
Most extreme is when from AAA or AAD with "audiophile" remaster or ... Great Music lost soul ...
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beck
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by beck »

Just today I have started teaching via facetime and it went well.

Another thing that is going well is listening to music using my cd player. As my setup just gets better and better all my above reservations seem to vanish.

A year ago I would have given my NAD 542 away for nothing. Now I fear how long it can keep on playing cd’s without problems!

It has taken more than the usual tricks to get to this point but with my crazy head I have somehow maneged to get past the problems and into music land.


Digital is fighting a hard battle against the conditions on our earth to be able to deliver music to our ears.

As Spannko stated elsewhere we are only starting to understand what is going on.

What I have experienced is that most of it is down to extreme control of vibrations around and within the digital equipment we use.

Digital is even in the shape of a cheap cd player able to deliver but it takes some effort!
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

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I have gone from not liking any cd played through my NAD 542 and passive hifi system to

well some cd’s sound ok (AAD) and many are horrible to

many sound ok but some are bad to

most of my cd’s sound enjoyable but especially HD and some others are problematic to

wow, most sound great but a few sounds a little weird to

oh, now it sounds almost analog with a more natural bass sound to

my Beatles still are not right but the rest is great to

I cannot find anything I do not like and Beatles makes me headbang in my bed! :-)


All the above by only changing the setup of the system and around the cd player in particular. It only took me a couple of years! Not bad......



Well, you can all deduce what I am hinting at.......................
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by Defender »

something like - all is possible if you only believe in it and try hard?
but great to hear
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

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Defender wrote: 2020-03-27 13:06 something like - all is possible if you only believe in it and try hard?
but great to hear
Something like that. :-)

I most not tell lies so one correction is due:

At one point I had to open the cd player and cut the power cable loose from a binding post forcing it up against the side of the chassis to let it hang loose!
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by Spannko »

beck wrote: 2020-03-27 11:33 I have gone from not liking any cd played through my NAD 542 and passive hifi system to

well some cd’s sound ok (AAD) and many are horrible to

many sound ok but some are bad to

most of my cd’s sound enjoyable but especially HD and some others are problematic to

wow, most sound great but a few sounds a little weird to

oh, now it sounds almost analog with a more natural bass sound to

my Beatles still are not right but the rest is great to

I cannot find anything I do not like and Beatles makes me headbang in my bed! :-)


All the above by only changing the setup of the system and around the cd player in particular. It only took me a couple of years! Not bad......



Well, you can all deduce what I am hinting at.......................
Only a couple of years? That’s brilliant. I’ve been struggling to get a good sound out of digital for about 25 years! Although, I do feel as though I’m beginning to get somewhere now though 😁
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by fatjulio »

Hi Beck,
I've just tried putting a little bit of soft rubber/silicon (from the back of a gift card) under the ethernet cable where it meets the shelf, before going into my Hakai. Damn, it's better! So now I'm going to try that with all cables that go into it. Do you have a preference for the material used to damp the vibrations? Have you tried it with the cables that go to your turntable?
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by beck »

My experiments have been done with all kinds of materials at hand but rubber of different kind tend to work best.
The problem is that you never know how it is going to work before you listen so the listening is what is needed. Trial and error.

My homemade stand forced me to keep the Sondeks arm cable away from touching anything but the turntable itself and the phono stage. The power cable only touches the turntable itself and the floor. The contact with the floor is worth investigating also.

It has been a proces of back and forth, back and forth with a lot of listening constantly trying to find the best way to do things.
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by Spannko »

With respect to the importance of controlling vibrations, I’ve just come across this, posted on the Naim forum:

Simon-in-Suffolk

I had been dealing with fibre in audio one way or another since the mid 90s, I am reasonably comfortable with its strengths and weaknesses - the issue is not with any media converter which may or may not have there own specific considerations - but the frequency modulation or jitter - caused by the vibration of the fibre cable itself from audio frequencies… this is like a sort of audio FM modulation - and will couple into the connected equipment - yes at tiny levels - but so are most things in this area.
This side effect of fibre is also used extensively to provide tamper and damage detection in oil and gas pipelines for example - as well as some surveillance activities… I used to have access to a great demonstration of this side effect - it often amazed people - you had an active network fibre in a room, and people spoke in that room - in a separate room that the fibre terminated into some equipment that could demodulate the audio induced jitter in the fibre and could then play back the audio/voices from the other room.

If you sound proof the fibre then you will have mitigated this effect.


I find the fact that fibre is so prone to noise it can be used for surveillance absolutely fascinating! There’s so much we have to learn!
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by beck »

A correction to my above post:

No cable from my Sondek touch the floor or anything else than the turntable itself and the Linto/Lingo. Only the Lingo power cable touch the floor. :-)


Back on topic I am finding music in all my cd’s whichever way they have been recorded or remastered.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by Spannko »

Just had a thought beck. Since the carbon fibre brush works so well, I wonder if a wool carpet would work too? It has a similar fibre arrangement, with the cable just touching the tips of the wool strands.

I remember being told by someone at Linn that it’s best to let speaker cables run flat across the top of a carpet, rather than bunch the excess cable anywhere. It was a long time ago, but the impression it left me with was that it was to do with the carpet damping vibrations. OTOH, it really was a long time ago, so I could easily be wrong.

Based on what I remember, I’ve been planning to build a cable enclosure behind my system which will be sectioned (to keep power and signal cables apart), and lined with wool felt (to damp vibrations). However, after hearing your carbon fibre brush experiment, I’m going to try wool carpet too.
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

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Yes, carpets has as far as I know always been recommended but Lejonklou/ThomasOK will know for sure.
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by Spannko »

Ah, didn’t know that. Interesting!
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by Charlie1 »

Spannko wrote: 2020-04-02 06:00 With respect to the importance of controlling vibrations, I’ve just come across this, posted on the Naim forum:

Simon-in-Suffolk

I had been dealing with fibre in audio one way or another since the mid 90s, I am reasonably comfortable with its strengths and weaknesses - the issue is not with any media converter which may or may not have there own specific considerations - but the frequency modulation or jitter - caused by the vibration of the fibre cable itself from audio frequencies… this is like a sort of audio FM modulation - and will couple into the connected equipment - yes at tiny levels - but so are most things in this area.
This side effect of fibre is also used extensively to provide tamper and damage detection in oil and gas pipelines for example - as well as some surveillance activities… I used to have access to a great demonstration of this side effect - it often amazed people - you had an active network fibre in a room, and people spoke in that room - in a separate room that the fibre terminated into some equipment that could demodulate the audio induced jitter in the fibre and could then play back the audio/voices from the other room.

If you sound proof the fibre then you will have mitigated this effect.


I find the fact that fibre is so prone to noise it can be used for surveillance absolutely fascinating! There’s so much we have to learn!
Agree, this is very interesting - amazing in fact.
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by Defender »

nowadays you just retrieve conversation in hotel rooms just from using a directional microphone pointed at the window of the hotel room - the window is just resonating to the sound waves in the room
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Re: Some observations from cd replay

Post by beck »

An interesting and always relevant question when “tuning” setup is how one can know that the action made is moving the performance in the right direction.

We use clips to help each other on this forum.

Lately with my cd player really striking a “chord” 😃 in me I found myself (while doing other things) suddenly laughing out loud because of an insident in the music playing.

The cd was Stevie Wonder’s “Songs in The Key of Life” and the track was “Ebony Eyes”. Not being too familiar with the track I smiled when Stevie yelled “Saxophone right here!”.
Then later I simply laughed out loud when he yelled “Saxophone one more time!”

Something good must be going on. :-)
Playing cd’s…………
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