HD-Audio Challenge II with Tune Dem?

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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jwn
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HD-Audio Challenge II with Tune Dem?

Post by jwn »

Right this moment Mark Waldrep tries to determine if people can hear the difference between 16/44 and 24/96 music. From his own label (AIX) he has down sampled files from 24/96 to 16/44 and these are available as a download. He simple asks if one can tell the difference. Something of 600 people have already signed up. And so have I.

I find it a lot harder than expected. With objective criteria (soundstage, details etc…) I can’t really tell if they are different or not. Without “Tune Dem” I would simple have given up. My interpretation of “Tune Dem” is that if it easier to connect to the music it’s the better one (e.g. 24/96 in this case). It’s the only way that I am able to make a choice but am uncertain if I am fooling myself or not. Is “Tune Dem” the right tool to use or am I missing something? (or possible I am tone-deaf to the difference). Is anybody else taking this challenge?

More information: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6749
beck
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Re: HD-Audio Challenge II with Tune Dem?

Post by beck »

Forget everything you think you know about digital audio and listen to what Peter Q is saying in the video below:

https://youtu.be/BijKabByrZQ (just skip forward when he is not talking!)

You cannot use tune dem to distinguis between 16/44 and 24/96.

Why should 24/96 give more soundstage and details? If you have a puzzle with 100 pieces and the same puzzle made into 1000 pieces it should still give you the same picture!
Playing cd’s…………
jwn
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Re: HD-Audio Challenge II with Tune Dem?

Post by jwn »

Thanks for the link, interesting content! My takeaway is that that digital is a lot more sensitive to little changes than analog and that 16/44 is optimal and increasing the number of bits might even make it worse. For me, proving or disproving if 24-bit is better than 16-bit is the whole subject of the study. If the Audio Note guy (Peter Qvortrup) is right it shouldn’t be.

Your premise for the puzzle is that you are taking the exact same picture and just cutting it up in more pieces. In that case I agree that there would be no difference. If you down-sample an audio file however from 24/96 to 16/44 you undeniably throw away information (for instance the potential dynamic range decreases from 144 dB to 96 dB). This is measurable (“the picture resolution is lowered”) if it is audible by humans however is the question.

Bottom line is that if Peter Q is right than “Tune Dem” would not be of any help because there is no audible difference. If he is wrong, should “Tune Dem” be able to help or not?
beck
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Re: HD-Audio Challenge II with Tune Dem?

Post by beck »

Tune Dem is used here to calibrate the end result from a system whatever the “numbers” a music file contains.

I do not think it is useful in your situation.

Though I could be wrong.


As an aside I am finally getting along with my cd player. I am enjoying both red book and HD through my system.
Playing cd’s…………
linesrg
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Re: HD-Audio Challenge II with Tune Dem?

Post by linesrg »

jwn,

I have taken the challenge and submitted my results.

Tried listening via my 2013 MacBook Pro and Sony WF-1000XM3 wireless earpieces and then via my hi-fi system having transferred the files to my Synology NAS.

I found it very challenging to be honest.

I haven't heard back so I've no idea what my individual result was.

I'm not technically qualified so cannot join in discussions about the pros and cons of 16 bit or 24bit and don't know whether we should be listening to CD's or ripped CD's or streamed content.

It would seem to be clear that the best way of listening to digital isn't as cut and dried as some people would seem to suggest.

Regards

Richard
Linn KSH, 10 channel Akurate Exactbox, Avondale SE amplification +(modified) Isobariks
hcl
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Re: HD-Audio Challenge II with Tune Dem?

Post by hcl »

beck wrote: 2019-12-28 19:50 Forget everything you think you know about digital audio and listen to what Peter Q is saying in the video below:

https://youtu.be/BijKabByrZQ (just skip forward when he is not talking!)

You cannot use tune dem to distinguis between 16/44 and 24/96.

Why should 24/96 give more soundstage and details? If you have a puzzle with 100 pieces and the same puzzle made into 1000 pieces it should still give you the same picture!
If there are perceivable differences Tune-dem is the tool to use.

Just a comment on the video; Although this gentleman’s findings are justifiable he certainly talks like a complete amateur in digital theory. I would be careful to put too much weight on some of the conclusions mentioned.
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