Anti skating

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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beck
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Anti skating

Post by beck »

I think we all here agree that listening for the best setup of the tonearm is the best way to do it. So it was with interest that I listened to the explanation given in the video below (start at around 3.30).

https://youtu.be/6pmD1gIL_cU

Afterwards I checked my setup (found by ear) of my anti skating on the Ekos1 and it matched the explanation in the video. My tonearm moved slowly towards the center.

At first I used a cd but in the comments to the video it is said that you have to use a vinyl record. So I tried that too.
Playing cd’s…………
Charlie1
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Re: Anti skating

Post by Charlie1 »

Very interesting. I've been using the Ittok/VM95E at 1.5g and 1.1 a/s the past few days. I have to drop the a/s down to about 0.4 in order to make the arm (very slowly) move inwards. At 1.1 it was drifting outwards at a reasonable pace. Have to say that it's sounding more tuneful at 0.4 and the HiFi stuff is slightly better too.

My Ekos SE/Krystal was bang on at 1.73g and 1.95 a/s. Bear in mind it's an early SE where the antiskate reading is approximately 0.2 too low.

Thanks for posting this!

EDIT: there is reduced distortion too.
beck
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Re: Anti skating

Post by beck »

Great Charlie1 that you found my post useful!

The reason I find this method interesting is that with some carts I find it quite hard to find the optimum anti skating force by ear (harder with the Klyde, easier with the AT33).
Playing cd’s…………
beck
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Re: Anti skating

Post by beck »

I have tried to dublicate the results from today and at first I failed but now I have found a flat enough record to get the mentioned movement slowly towards the center with my anti skating force set by ear.
This tells me that it can be difficult to find the perfect vinyl record to use for this test.

Whatever you do trust you ears.
Playing cd’s…………
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Hermann
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Re: Anti skating

Post by Hermann »

Thanks for the reminder. I always adjusted the anti skating that way but it somehow got lost...
At EKOS/SE I've set it by ear. Since this memory comes just to determine that my ears despite my age are in order.
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Matteo
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Re: Anti skating

Post by Matteo »

Can someone post a clip?

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beck
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Re: Anti skating

Post by beck »

I have tried to get the above method to work but I do not get consistent results with it and at the same time I am blessed with the best music ever from my system during my AT33 period. The setup has all been done by ear and that will not change in the future. :-)
Playing cd’s…………
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lejonklou
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Re: Anti skating

Post by lejonklou »

Like Thomas indicated in a different thread, I find this method questionable. Not only is it rather difficult to perform, but the ideal result is also quite vague (slowly drifting inwards).

Why do this near the center of the record, where there's much less friction than at the edge? And why do it with the tip of the cartridge creating friction against a flat surface, instead of in a groove with some modulation? It seems the setting is likely to end up too low with this method.

The real way to do it is of course by ear. Using other techniques to hopefully gain a better sound instead of directly searching for the best sound appears to be the equivalent of crossing the creek to fetch water (not sure if that's the right expression in English, but you might get the idea).
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Matteo
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Re: Anti skating

Post by Matteo »

Just did some experiments with poor results.
I agree with Thomas and Fredrik.

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Charlie1
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Re: Anti skating

Post by Charlie1 »

OK, OK, you are all right. I tried it by ear and ended up where Ron had suggested a few days ago. That's a shame cos it was nice and easy to do and repeatable between the various carts. Just a shame it was repeating a suboptimal result.
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ThomasOK
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Re: Anti skating

Post by ThomasOK »

I suppose I should have elaborated on my comments from the other thread here. There have been a number of people who have recommended using a blank vinyl record to set anti-skating although this is the first time I have heard of this specific version, usually it is getting the stylus to stay still in the middle of the record. The problem with either version is that the skating force is caused by the friction of the stylus in the groove. That friction will vary with stylus shape, modulation level, position on the record, tracking force, etc. Putting the stylus on blank vinyl means you are running on the very tip, not the playing edges, and not in a modulated groove. Both of these factors are going to reduce the bias towards the inside leading to too low an anti-skating. Running on the tip is also going to minimize the differences from different stylus shapes.

Really the only system that does account for these variables is setting it by ear. You could make the argument that the bias varies across the record and with modulation and you would be right. So I suggest setting it with a track somewhere in the middle of the record that has a medium volume, that way you should be relatively close all the time. It is possible for an anti-skating system to be designed to change its outward bias with position on the record but I'm not sure if this has been done with any particular arm or how well it has been done. If you want to take it further try setting it by ear at three or four different places on the record and see how much it varies, then set it for the average - unless you want to twist the dial while the record is playing for better optimization. ;-)
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