The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

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imarcel
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Re: Marcel Story

Post by imarcel »

Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-02-14 18:10 Marcel,
What a great story and history!

It appears you have the best sounding AT-VM95 on the planet right now. No wonder it sounds so good; you've already taken it to the limit. It's good to get positive feedback of my tracking and torque settings.

Where is your café/bar? I'd love to have a drink and chat while listening to "vinyl" over Saras.

Ron The Mon
Hello Ron,

my bar is in Berlin/Germany, so I suppose it will be difficult for you to visit. But if you ever are around you are very welcome and we will have a few glasses of wine or a few beers together while talking abount good music (which is most important) and good hifi (which is also important).

https://de.foursquare.com/v/lass-uns-fr ... 20a34621e3

Some years ago the local linn dealer and Mr. Ivor Tiefenbrun were my guests. We had a few glasses of good south german Pinot Noir. At that time I was still running Linn Inteks with the Saras and Kans at the bar. Source were either MD´s (yes minidisc) of recordings from my records or a wadia 170i into a musical fidelity dac for the employees (they mostly use ipods or iphones). Of course Mr. Tiefenbrun adviced me to buy a DS. It was a nice evening.

...meanwhile I am still working on my setup. I got rid of the Urika and installed a Majik Base Board. I had been using the "old" feet with he Urika anyway. The timetable tables were designed to be used with them. I redid the spring adjustment and torqued again. Now that I have a Sturtevant Richmont CAL 36/4 it makes so much more sense.

By the way, if someone is interested: There is a guy selling them new over the german ebay site right now. He wants 230.-€ but is open for offers. So maybe a chance to get one here in Europe for a reasonable price (below 200 ? is that reasonable ?). It´s a bit hard to find because he spelled Richmond instead of Richmont. https://www.ebay.de/itm/303442839971
Please note that I am not the seller nor do I know him.

My turntable has been running many hours a day. If this goes on, I will need a new VM95E stylus before summer.
The Kandid I gave away for rebuilding has not come back. I will report, maybe it´s of interest. But I think it will probably not be anywhere near a new Kandid.

Greetings from Berlin
Marcel
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Defender »

there is really no need to spend 200 Euro on the Sturtevant. You can find them on ebay used and in good quality - this is a good ol American Product which has a lifetime of more than 20years.

I got mine from ebay from the US for around 80Euros because I wanted to have a tool in a good shape. You can have it cheaper for around 50Euros.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by imarcel »

you are right Defender.
Sadly I had a little less luck with my first one I bought used on ebay. The tool is ok but the lens is somewhat cloudy and the black line not very good to read. That makes it very hard to adjust correctly.
marcel
Defender wrote: 2020-02-19 18:20 there is really no need to spend 200 Euro on the Sturtevant. You can find them on ebay used and in good quality - this is a good ol American Product which has a lifetime of more than 20years.

I got mine from ebay from the US for around 80Euros because I wanted to have a tool in a good shape. You can have it cheaper for around 50Euros.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Defender »

I completely understand that but even with a more clear lens it doesnt make it much easier to read it
actually I thought if they had done it with no lens it would be much easier

I thought about two solutions which would request a little care while doing it:
1. somehow cut out a U from the material (—U—)
2. drill two holes into it (—o-o—)

but that would make you be able to read the lines on the scale better
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by lejonklou »

imarcel wrote: 2020-02-19 19:21 you are right Defender.
Sadly I had a little less luck with my first one I bought used on ebay. The tool is ok but the lens is somewhat cloudy and the black line not very good to read. That makes it very hard to adjust correctly.
marcel
Here's some advice for this condition that might help. I have bought only one tool where the plastic of the clear plastic piece was anything but clear, but on all the others it's mainly been dirt.

1. Set the tool to something low and easy to remember, for instance 0.4 Nm.

2. Make sure the Nm scale is directly above the black locking screw, then adjust the tool as precisely as you can to exactly 0.4 Nm.

3. Loosen the black locking screw with the appropriate Allen key.

4. Unscrew the clear plastic piece and polish its inside with a cloth. Also clean the metal shaft, which with time will attract dirt and rub it off against the inside of the clear plastic piece.

5. Screw the clear plastic piece back on. If you examine its threads carefully, you will find there's often a mark on it from the small black locking screw. This help you refit the piece in the same position.

6. When the tool is once again at exactly 0.4 Nm (now hopefully easier to read), refit the black locking screw. Tighten it carefully, it needs to be snug only - just enough to keep the clear plastic piece from rotating. If you overtighten it, the clear plastic piece will tilt a little and accuracy in reading might be affected.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by jlrchrds »

Ron, the AT-VM95E certainly showed the door to the old K5 I’ve been using on my Rega Planar 8. I have an Adikt on order. This is a second system but I’ve been having a lot of fun listening during the lockdown... its an analog system of sorts (Planar 8, Majik DSM, Rotel RB1050, Akurate 212s and a 221). Main system is Linn Klimax exakt with Doriks. This cartridge it really is heck of a bargain... not sure I needed the Adikt. Let you know how it compares to the Adikt. Thx Jeff
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by V.A.MKD »

jlrchrds wrote: 2020-05-06 00:32 Ron, the AT-VM95E certainly showed the door to the old K5 I’ve been using on my Rega Planar 8. I have an Adikt on order. This is a second system but I’ve been having a lot of fun listening during the lockdown... its an analog system of sorts (Planar 8, Majik DSM, Rotel RB1050, Akurate 212s and a 221). Main system is Linn Klimax exakt with Doriks. This cartridge it really is heck of a bargain... not sure I needed the Adikt. Let you know how it compares to the Adikt. Thx Jeff
Hi Jeff,
It will be good to hear differences between 2 legends ...
All the best and keep safe ...
Music First ...
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by jlrchrds »

I'll be happy to post them. This little $50 usd cartridge just buried a hardly used K5 that was dialed in. Jeff
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Mr Pig »

Reading this with great interest as I'm using a conical stylus on a K9 body just now and really liking it. Can I ask some specific questions? Forgive me if the answers are in the thread and I've missed them.

Does the plastic VM95 body sound better than the alloy K9 one? If so, in what way does the sound differ? I have always assumed the alloy body would be better.

What is the accepted correct torque for the mounting bolts? I see figures like .2 +2 but I don't know what the +2 means? I have only seen torque figures given in whole numbers. I have a good torque wrench that goes down to 1 nm.

In what way to alloy mounting bolts sound better than steel ones? When I've tried them both years ago I came away preferring steel bolts.

Thank you.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

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Mr Pig wrote: 2020-05-06 22:15 What is the accepted correct torque for the mounting bolts? I see figures like .2 +2 but I don't know what the +2 means? I have only seen torque figures given in whole numbers. I have a good torque wrench that goes down to 1 nm.
Hello Mr Pig and welcome to the forum!

Regarding the 0.2+2 figure, the +2 refers to the number of "steps" above 0.2 Nm when using our favourite torque tool: Sturtevant Richmont CAL 36/4. +2 is just a little above 0.2 and every tool has slight variations, so a good procedure is to
1. Set the tool at 0.2 Nm,
2. tighten the cartridge screws (arm does not need removing for these low torques),
3. have a listen to a short piece of music,
4. increase your tool setting with the smallest possible step,
5. tighten the cartridge with the new slightly higher torque setting,
6. listen to that piece of music again.

Repeat steps 4-6 as long as it becomes more musical. As soon as it gets worse, stop and reset the tool to the previous torque. Then loosen and retighten both screws, one at a time, with that optimal torque.

1 Nm is unfortunately too high for the AT bodies and for most other cartridges as well. You can however successfully use it for mounting Arkiv, Akiva and Kandid to an Ekos! :D
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Defender »

with those torques with the arm fitted do you just let the tool release or do you turn until it clicks? I am little afraid that the click is somehow sending a „shockwave“ to the arm bearings
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Charlie1 »

There should be some slippage once you reach the torque setting. This should happen before it clicks over. The slippage on mine is probably only 1/8 of a turn but it's usually enough. However, it gets harder to find (without clicking over) as the torque setting increases in value.

Welcome Mr Pig!
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by lejonklou »

Defender wrote: 2020-05-07 08:59 with those torques with the arm fitted do you just let the tool release or do you turn until it clicks? I am little afraid that the click is somehow sending a „shockwave“ to the arm bearings
The clicks at 0.2 Nm are as soft as a baby's buttocks, can't imagine them doing any harm.

On higher torques I do in some cases avoid the clicks and just turn repeatedly to the slippage point.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Charlie1 »

A quick update on my VM95 adventure. Whenever I try to live with the EN, I get fed up with it after a few hours. It's not instantly boring HiFi like the ML but I just don't enjoy my music as much as I should, despite the fact it sounds miles better than the C and E. My K9s are also nude elipticals and sound so much more musical - very annoying.

So I've been trying the E again. I initially thought this was kind of no mans land between the C and NE but actually its excellent in its own right, possibly more tuneful in the bass than the C. It doesn't quite have the C's snappy timing but anyone nervous about long term use of a conical stylus on their records should be very happy with the E - music comes through first and foremost.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2020-05-07 17:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Defender »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-05-07 09:05 There should be some slippage once you reach the torque setting. This should happen before it clicks over. The slippage on mine is probably only 1/8 of a turn but it's usually enough. However, it gets harder to find (without clicking over) as the torque setting increases in value.

Welcome Mr Pig!
when I was writing „release“ I meant what you better described with slippage so we are speaking about the same.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Mr Pig »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-05-06 23:361. Set the tool at 0.2 Nm..
Ah, my wrench doesn't go down that low. 1 Nm is the bottom rung.

What about the alloy bolts, in what way do they sound different? The only alloy bolts i have are slot-head, which makes using a torque wrench tricky.
Charlie1 wrote: 2020-05-07 09:53Whenever I try to live with the EN, I get fed up with it after a few hours. It's not instantly boring HiFi like the ML but I just don't enjoy my music as much as I should, despite the fact it sounds miles better than the C and E.
In what way does the EN sound better? I'll be honest, that's the stylus I was going to try next. The C is good but it has a somewhat veiled quality to it.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Charlie1 »

Mr Pig wrote: In what way does the EN sound better? I'll be honest, that's the stylus I was going to try next. The C is good but it has a somewhat veiled quality to it.
Greater resolution and clarity.

The E is also less veiled than the C but doesn't have the NEs crisp resolution. The E is still fun and engaging whereas I find the NE a bit stiff and joyless by comparison with the other two.

What I don’t understand is how the NE can be so different to the K9 that was also a naked elliptical. There’s not a lot that makes up the stylii, not to my untrained eye anyway.
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Mr Pig »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-05-07 20:27The E is also less veiled than the C but doesn't have the NEs crisp resolution. The E is still fun and engaging whereas I find the NE a bit stiff and joyless by comparison with the other two.
Thank you. Did you run in the NE fully? I'm wondering if it just needed to loosen up.

The K9 had a nude Vital tip which I think was more than a plain elliptical.

I have loosened the bolts on my cart. They were not very tight actually, I stopped going gorilla on bolts years ago, but yes, I've heard a clear improvement. More open and dynamic sound with no downsides that I can hear. Every day's a school day :0)
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Charlie1 »

Yep NE was well run in last year.
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AT-VM95C Q&A

Post by Ron The Mon »

Mr Pig wrote: 2020-05-06 22:15 Does the plastic VM95 body sound better than the alloy K9 one? If so, in what way does the sound differ? I have always assumed the alloy body would be better.
Hello Mr Pig,
Read this. And this.

There are several differences between the two cartridges besides the bodies. The K9 is an AT-95E generator assembly attached to an aluminum body. The new "VM" units are different internally; mechanically and electrically. The plastic body is a different type of plastic with threaded inserts. The output of the "VM" bodies are 4.0mV vs. 3.5mV on the 30-year-old models.

Like you, I happened across the superiority of the "Conical" by complete accident. I originally got an AT-95E on my LP12 seven years ago as a stop-gap. I bought a Radikal then and "temporarily" downsized from a Linn Klyde to MM. I was amazed how good my system sounded. Over the years I have spent over a thousand dollars on every replacement stylus for the mighty "95"; every one more expensive and worse. During this time, Audio Technica changed the green E stylus for the worse. Then they came out with an AT-95EX (with red stylus). Also boring and worse.

Earlier in this thread you can read the rest of the story but I will elaborate for you about the Linn aluminum "K9" body. I compared one directly against a "VM" body. I had the arm pillar at the same height with the same stainless hardware for both. Tracking force and anti-skate the same. I torqued both bodies to their correct torques (read the rest of this thread for specifics).

I preferred the "VM" body for three reasons:
1] It plays music better.
2] The output is much higher. 12 o'clock on my volume control is now 10 o'clock. There is now no hiss compared to a slight hiss before.
3] I sold the K9 body for the equivalent of eight "C" styli.

Instead of paying $21 for another "C" stylus, buy an entire AT-VM95C for $34. It will cost you $13 to compare bodies yourself. Also, buy a Sturtevant Richmont Cal 36/4. If you wait around, you can find one used for about $37. There are many folks here with Rega turntable and Linn speaker torque figures. You will get your $50 worth and have a spare stylus to boot.
In what way do alloy mounting bolts sound better than steel ones? When I've tried them both years ago I came away preferring steel bolts.
Aluminum bolts cannot be tightened on an alloy body to the best sounding torque; they will break off. I was of the same thinking as you until I tried the aluminum screws; they sound better in every way. I posted an audio clip here (which expired) and there was 100% agreement in sound quality improvement.

I only tried the stock AT-VM95C included screws.

I don't believe the material of the metal is the reason, but the weight difference; which is substantial. Anything that gets the counterweight closer to the pivot point results in better music on most tonearms. That is why using the Rega alignment protractor sounds better than other gauges with a Rega tonearm; the result is the cartridge is farther back and sounding better.

I use a digital scale for tracking force and recommend 1.5 grams for any AT95 stylus. A few find 1.6-1.8 grams best but I cannot confirm the accuracy of their tonearm dials. Around one gram anti-skate is best but Regas tend to sound better lower in my experience.

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K5 vs. AT-VM95E ....vs. Adikt?

Post by Ron The Mon »

jlrchrds wrote: 2020-05-06 00:32 Ron, the AT-VM95E certainly showed the door to the old K5 I’ve been using on my Rega Planar 8. I have an Adikt on order. This cartridge it really is a heck of a bargain... not sure I needed the Adikt. Let you know how it compares to the Adikt.
Jeff,
I think many here would like to hear that; record a comparison if you can.

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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Charlie1 »

I've read that running a stylus at a lower than recommended setting is likely to cause more vinyl wear than running it within the manufacturer's recommended range. Does anyone know if this is true and, if so, the extent of any additional wear? For example, if it's only going to increase LP wear by 20% above normal then I'm not going to worry about it. If it's twice the wear rate then it might be different. I'm not worried about the reduced life of a VM95C / VM95E styli since they are so cheap. This is purely a concern about my vinyl.

Also, anyone opposed to the view that conical styli cause more wear than elliptical, excluding LPs with plenty of space for wide grooves.
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Profiles and Mass

Post by Ron The Mon »

Charlie1 wrote: 2020-05-08 23:11 I've read that running a stylus at a lower than recommended setting is likely to cause more vinyl wear than running it within the manufacturer's recommended range. Does anyone know if this is true...?

...[and] conical styli cause more wear than elliptical,...
I have a series of scratches on my driveway from when I was raking leaves across it last Autumn. Are you saying if I had applied double or triple the force while raking, I would have less or no scratches in my concrete? Or maybe if I had filed and sanded the tangs to an elliptical profile I would not see the scratches or they would be reduced?

We have all at some point bumped the headshell while playing a record and the needle goes skipping across a vinyl record and you hear the dreaded scraaaaatch. If it just does a little light hop, there is usually no damage. However, if you happen to push down, even slightly, the added weight can damage the record. This will create a permanent "tick" every revolution.

More force always equals more wear.

I have a few favorite records that I've been playing at least once a week for decades. Those records have been played with dozens of different styli types with no wear or added noise. I have a habit of buying multiple copies of favorite records "just in case". My older copies are often quieter than sealed records I find.

A dirty and/or excessively worn stylus is what will damage a record, regardless of tracking force or needle shape.

Regarding "recommended" ranges, why would that matter? If 1.5 grams sounds the best, it means it is doing the least damage as well.

I've been using the AT-VMN95C almost exclusively for over a year. I've been tracking that and every stylus at 1.5 grams for over seven years. I am getting the clearest, most noise-free reproduction of records now compared to any previous hi-fi I've had. I have also never had "end of side distortion" before or now; another hi-fi old-wives tale.

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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by Charlie1 »

Thanks Ron.

I like the rack analogy. I feel a bit daft about it now but sometimes things that are counter intuitive are correct, although not this time :)
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Re: The Mighty AT95E Becomes The AT-VM95E

Post by V.A.MKD »

What to say, it's simple, Thank you Needle - Freak.
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