Possible Upgrade

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Peter Lanky
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Possible Upgrade

Post by Peter Lanky » 2019-08-25 09:23

Currently using K Renew DS/1, Lejonklou Boazu, M140

Possible upgrade route would be K Renew DSM/1 into Klimax twin or pair of Tundra monos.

Any opinions or concerns? Is there a better option. Am I overlooking anything?
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by anthony » 2019-08-25 10:19

Peter Lanky wrote:
2019-08-25 09:23
Currently using K Renew DS/1, Lejonklou Boazu, M140

Possible upgrade route would be K Renew DSM/1 into Klimax twin or pair of Tundra monos.

Any opinions or concerns? Is there a better option. Am I overlooking anything?


You should look at a katalyst ds first.

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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Peter Lanky » 2019-08-25 11:01

As far as I'm aware, that would involve buying a full Klimax streamer which would be far too expensive. I'm not sure how many K Renew DSM versions exist.
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-08-27 16:13

Peter Lanky wrote:
2019-08-25 11:01
As far as I'm aware, that would involve buying a full Klimax streamer which would be far too expensive. I'm not sure how many K Renew DSM versions exist.
None with Katalyst. Get a second-hand Akurate DS/1 and have it upgraded with Katalyst, or an ADSM, if you need the HDMI-inputs.

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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-08-27 19:33

It really depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you need the various DAC inputs for other decoding duties then that might be a possibility. But I still have not been pleased with the musical quality of the DVCs so I wouldn't be in a hurry to give up an analog preamp. It would definitely be worthwhile trying the DVC in your KRDS/1 into a Twin vs. no DVC into the Boazu - I think you might be surprised.

If you don't need the digital inputs you would be better off with a KRDS/2 or even better an ADS with Katalyst upgrade, as has been mentioned. Then further improvement would be looking at Sagatun/Tundra 2.5 to replace the Boazu (or 4 Monos but that gets pricier). You could also be on the lookout for a KDS/3 used at a good price, or an earlier KDS you can upgrade to Katalyst. Since they are discontinued you might be able to get one at a good price.
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-28 02:06

Additionally, depending on what you are looking to achieve, you could look at system setup to make sure you are getting the best from your current components, particularly speaker positioning, network, NAS, and ripping solutions, and what supports your system... You can also get a surprising boost in the performance of your DS through torque tuning. You could also look at building yourself a Hakai ;) But I'd definitely echo Tom's advice to listen to any upgraded power amps with an analogue preamp before jumping to digital volume control (DVC)

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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Peter Lanky » 2019-08-28 09:57

OK, so I'm not overly technical on these things, just having knowledge of they basic way they work.

Linn claims that a KDSM produces a better sound than a KDS in conjunction with a KK as it has an incorporated preamp, so what exactly are the concerns about losing the preamp component of the Boazu?
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by David Neel » 2019-08-28 10:54

Peter Lanky wrote:
2019-08-28 09:57
Linn claims that a KDSM produces a better sound than a KDS in conjunction with a KK as it has an incorporated preamp, so what exactly are the concerns about losing the preamp component of the Boazu?
Peter, there are two answers here, the first is that Linn seem currently to be prioritising sound over musicality, and more than a few people have disagreed with their suggestion that a KDSM was better than a KDS plus KK. Second answer is that Fredrik's pre-amps bring a level of musicality that in my opinion isn't available with Linn pre-amps. I suspect that using a Linn Katalyst DVC would be hugely impressive on a quick A/B comparison, but that switching it off and using a Lejonklou pre-amp would bring greater emotional connection and long-term satisfaction. You need to hear this for yourself. I have an ADS/3 Katalyst with (normally unused!) DVC - if you want to bring your Boazu to see what happens, PM me.
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Zee9 » 2019-08-28 14:55

David Neel wrote:
2019-08-28 10:54
Peter Lanky wrote:
2019-08-28 09:57
Linn claims that a KDSM produces a better sound than a KDS in conjunction with a KK as it has an incorporated preamp, so what exactly are the concerns about losing the preamp component of the Boazu?
Peter, there are two answers here, the first is that Linn seem currently to be prioritising sound over musicality, and more than a few people have disagreed with their suggestion that a KDSM was better than a KDS plus KK. Second answer is that Fredrik's pre-amps bring a level of musicality that in my opinion isn't available with Linn pre-amps. I suspect that using a Linn Katalyst DVC would be hugely impressive on a quick A/B comparison, but that switching it off and using a Lejonklou pre-amp would bring greater emotional connection and long-term satisfaction. You need to hear this for yourself. I have an ADS/3 Katalyst with (normally unused!) DVC - if you want to bring your Boazu to see what happens, PM me.
I’m new here so pardon my ignorance. I’ve always found that my unidisk sounded better than my mdsm in regard to it’s built in preamp. In fact I liked the unidisk preamp even to my Kinos. When did linn move from analog to digital volume control was it a particular device where DVC started just to gauge if what I’m hearing is actually the DVC? I have been contemplating using my mdsm/1 as just Streaming source and moving my unidisk back to being the preamp but I will lose the ability of SO v2 then.

Does anyone know if the preamp in the Unidisk SC is AVc or DVC?
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-08-28 16:21

David Neel wrote:
2019-08-28 10:54
Peter Lanky wrote:
2019-08-28 09:57
Linn claims that a KDSM produces a better sound than a KDS in conjunction with a KK as it has an incorporated preamp, so what exactly are the concerns about losing the preamp component of the Boazu?
Peter, there are two answers here, the first is that Linn seem currently to be prioritising sound over musicality, and more than a few people have disagreed with their suggestion that a KDSM was better than a KDS plus KK. Second answer is that Fredrik's pre-amps bring a level of musicality that in my opinion isn't available with Linn pre-amps. I suspect that using a Linn Katalyst DVC would be hugely impressive on a quick A/B comparison, but that switching it off and using a Lejonklou pre-amp would bring greater emotional connection and long-term satisfaction. You need to hear this for yourself. I have an ADS/3 Katalyst with (normally unused!) DVC - if you want to bring your Boazu to see what happens, PM me.
+1
My experience, and that of those I have done the demo for, is that even the best of Linn's DVCs are not musically as good as turning them off and running the same device through a KK. On top of that even the first Sagatun Mono was easily superior to the last version KK, and in the current version the Sagatun 1.4 stereo is as well (also the 1.3), whereas the 1.0 was just neck and neck with some preferring it and others not. It is even possible that the Boazu preamp stage exceeds the KK in musicality although you can't separate it so I can't say for sure.

I would definitely recommend taking the opportunity to listen for yourself.
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by sunbeamgls » 2019-08-28 23:19

I would be interested to understand if the KDSM vs KDS plus KK comparisons here were all pre-Katalyst, or if some were post Katalyst.

Thanks
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-08-29 16:28

I did not do KDSM vs. KDS plus KK. Since the KDS also has the DVC capability the comparison was the KDS with DVC direct to amps vs. KDS with DVC disabled into KK. These were with a KDS/3 - the Katalyst version. Since the KDS is musically superior to the KDSM this is actually the fairer test.
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Ianw » 2019-08-29 17:31

Really agree with Kat DS being musically better than DSM.

A bunch of us UK Linnies all heard this exact demo at Linn HQ a couple of years ago. At that time the KAT DSM was the flagship product by price but was outperformed by the KAT DS.

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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by David Neel » 2019-08-29 18:27

Ianw wrote:
2019-08-29 17:31
Really agree with Kat DS being musically better than DSM.

A bunch of us UK Linnies all heard this exact demo at Linn HQ a couple of years ago. At that time the KAT DSM was the flagship product by price but was outperformed by the KAT DS.
The difference wasn't small!
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by anthony » 2019-08-29 19:38

David Neel wrote:
2019-08-29 18:27
Ianw wrote:
2019-08-29 17:31
Really agree with Kat DS being musically better than DSM.

A bunch of us UK Linnies all heard this exact demo at Linn HQ a couple of years ago. At that time the KAT DSM was the flagship product by price but was outperformed by the KAT DS.
The difference wasn't small!
Has anyone tried this recently, I think you'll find the kdsm is every bit as musical.

I now have a kdsm and enjoy it very much, having had a kds3 previously.

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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by David Neel » 2019-08-29 19:59

anthony wrote:
2019-08-29 19:38
David Neel wrote:
2019-08-29 18:27
Ianw wrote:
2019-08-29 17:31
Really agree with Kat DS being musically better than DSM.

A bunch of us UK Linnies all heard this exact demo at Linn HQ a couple of years ago. At that time the KAT DSM was the flagship product by price but was outperformed by the KAT DS.
The difference wasn't small!
Has anyone tried this recently, I think you'll find the kdsm is every bit as musical.

I now have a kdsm and enjoy it very much, having had a kds3 previously.
Has anything been changed since the introduction of Katalyst? That Linn demo made a strong impression on me; when I upgraded my ADS/1, I avoided the DSM option.
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Defender » 2019-08-29 20:09

yes Linn doesnt sell the DS anymore so there might be an interest that there is no difference possible to hear between the two. Maybe all further software developments focus to bring the best out of the DSM ... or there is a worst option which I won't think of.

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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Peter Lanky » 2019-09-03 08:57

With so much conflicting advice, I decided to take the plunge and get the KRDSM and the Tundra solos. I'm very pleased with the result and have certainly not experienced any loss of musicality.

Now it is time to sell my KRDS/1 and Boazu.
Last edited by Peter Lanky on 2019-09-04 18:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-03 18:51

Good to hear.

I'm sure they will get a good grip of that 140 bass too - no easy task - not in my listening room anyway.

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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Zee9 » 2019-09-10 18:13

Since you sold the 140’s what’s the next step?
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Re: Possible Upgrade

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-10 19:18

I'm just using the Katans with Nait 1 or 2 (not decided which one yet). They provide plenty of bass for me in that room.

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