Ethernet Cable Bake-off

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Spannko
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Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Spannko »

I’ve recorded a few Ethernet cables for your enjoyment. Two are standard £5 patch cables, one is an ‘audiophile’ cable and two are home made. Enjoy!

Cable 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/48dkyo2xrsgq9 ... 3.mov?dl=0

Cable 2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkw0ks04xby06 ... 5.mov?dl=0

Cable 3
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8pb6uoowyy8hg ... 4.mov?dl=0


Cable 4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/injribybp9bal ... 2.mov?dl=0

Cable 5
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmv0w619dnyo4 ... 3.mov?dl=0
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Half-Baked?

Post by Ron The Mon »

Spannko wrote: 2019-06-10 00:55 I’ve recorded a few Ethernet cables for your enjoyment. Two are standard £5 patch cables, one is an ‘audiophile’ cable and two are home made. Enjoy!
Spannko,
Did you compare directionality previously and are only playing us the best of each?
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Spannko »

Definitely!

What do you mean by “best of each”?
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by lejonklou »

Spannko wrote: 2019-06-10 08:45 Definitely!

What do you mean by “best of each”?
The best direction of each cable?
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by lejonklou »

I was going to listen to all the clips now, but sadly I was unable to musically connect to what you were playing.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Spannko »

Obviously!!!
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote: 2019-06-10 10:07 I was going to listen to all the clips now, but sadly I was unable to musically connect to what you were playing.
Ha ha!

What do you think is the problem?
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by lejonklou »

Spannko wrote: 2019-06-10 10:10
lejonklou wrote: 2019-06-10 10:07 I was going to listen to all the clips now, but sadly I was unable to musically connect to what you were playing.
Ha ha!

What do you think is the problem?
I'm sorry, it just sounds like an audiophile demo track to my ears. The kind of room on HiFi shows that I leave at once.

No offence intended! I just need something that I can connect with and that initial plucking of guitars gets my undies in a bundle.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by matthias »

The volume level seems to be very low, at least for listening with an iPad.

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Last edited by matthias on 2019-06-10 16:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Cable Baking

Post by Ron The Mon »

Spannko,
Today is the first time I have ever listened to my hi-fi with my Naim volume knob at full rotation! The music was then playing at what I consider normal levels. It was the same on all five samples.

I did connect with the music but it took me playing the song about forty times! I now understand the progression and like it. Who was the group?

Anyway, I thought Cable 1 the best. The rest sounded flat and disjointed. The green one was the worst.

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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Spannko »

Thanks Ron,

I’ll admit that the differences are small and require concentrated listening, however your description of the ‘progression’ is spot on, so I can tell that you understood what the track is all about. And, thanks for sticking with it. When differences are small, it can take many listens before the differences start to emerge. Some people would say that “the differences are too small to matter then”, but I would suggest not. Small differences in tune, particularly in those quieter background instruments can heavily influence our enjoyment of music. Often when we listen for differences we engage our ‘analytic brain’, which I personally feel is not fit for purpose! Our subconscious brain is much more reliable - it’s the one which says “that sounds pleasant” or “turn this racket off” when our analytic brain is otherwise engaged. After 40 listens, my guess is that your analytic brain was getting a bit tired, allowing your subconscious to do a bit more of the work.

For some reason, all of my recordings have been quiet. The track was played at 58, which is quite loud in the room. To get loud recordings I have to go up to 70, which is crazy loud in the room. As you’ve discovered, the solution is to turn it up at your end.

The album is called Irish Times by a band called Patrick Street

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Irish-Times-Pa ... 139&sr=8-8
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Charlie1 »

+1 for more volume please :) I can't really hear it at the beginning via my screen but there's just enough volume though sensitive headphones.

I like #1 too. It struck me as a good compromise. Probably go for #4 after that, following by #5 but really don't have any firm preference as I found it difficult to tell them apart.

PS I like the track once it gets going a bit.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by lejonklou »

I apologize for my previous negative comments. I am still not a fan of the song, but I pulled myself together and listened through all the clips after my dinner of wild boar and linguine.

Number 1 strikes me as the best. Solid.
Number 4 was decent.
Number 5 was slightly below 4.
Number 2 and 3 I didn't care for at all.

Same as Charlie then. And same winner as both Charlie and Ron. Not sure which was the green one, as I didn't look.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote: 2019-06-10 10:29
No offence intended! I just need something that I can connect with and that initial plucking of guitars gets my undies in a bundle.
[/quote]

This is the first step of a journey towards finding a great Ethernet cable. What we’re listening to at the moment are same length cables. As people are discovering, the differences are small. The next step is to compare lengths. Without giving too much away, this is where things start to get really interesting.

So no need to get your knickers in a twist, it’ll all come out in the wash, as we say in Blighty.

EDIT. Crossed posts. Thanks for your input.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by lejonklou »

Spannko wrote: 2019-06-10 20:16As people are discovering, the differences are small.
On the contrary, I found the differences obvious this second time around.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Geoff »

I'm pretty certain we've all been watching that seventy page monster over on the Wam. That probably inspired this one. I was wondering what volk would say here given the nattering nabobs of negativity about cable differences are strictly verboten here. Are you exploring differences in cables or CATx variation, or all of the above.

While we all have our test tracks that we love, it does make sense to hew to the common. I've adopted Paul's set of tracks (exact set, so no bitrate or version differences) as they do a good job of highlighting aspects of a system when following his thoughts of what to look for in the tracks. I spent several hours tunedeming my system to perfection using them, then applied SO, and am now trying to squeeze more out of my system by futzing sloooowly with SO. As I know and love them intimately, it makes the process enjoyable.

Should I try to listen to these on my LG V30 using my mid-fi v shaped Sennheiser HD650's, Etymotic ER4's, or through my system from the NAS?
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Spannko »

Geoff,

I’m not totally convinced that it’s the cat designation which determines how a cable will sound, so the tests aren’t cat based.

There are no rules about what you should listen to the videos on. I usually use an iPad (through the built in speakers), sometimes through apple earphones (the ones bundled with iPhones/iPads) and sometimes through my system via AirPlay.

Have a listen, then post your impression of the difference. It’ll be interesting to hear what you think.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by matthias »

Spannko,
did you modify two of the five cables according to your instructions on WAM?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ahu75ovi8qwn ... BqSga?dl=0

Thanks

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Cross Pollination?

Post by Ron The Mon »

Geoff wrote: 2019-06-11 11:41 I'm pretty certain we've all been watching that seventy page monster over on the Wam. That probably inspired this one...
Geoff,
I had no idea I was being used as a guinea pig for another forum. I only read other hi-fi forums when someone here links to them. The thread you refer to is chock full of bad advice, poor recommendations, and wrong information; it is indeed a monster. I only read a handful of posts as I quickly realized these are many of the same guys from the Linn Forum who don't use tune-dem, love Space Optimizing & digital volume controls, and don't have an LP12.

I really hope you're joking about how to listen and what to listen on. I'm now starting to think Spannko intentionally recorded this comparison so poorly as to force those who only listen to hi-fi artifacts to listen to the music. I find the musical differences he recorded quite large.

I listened to the song he used, Music For A Found Harmonium, on both Google Play and Spotify on my hi-fi and it is a fantastic recording of a really good song. The differences between cables should really be exacerbated on his hi-fi system.

Cable 3 was the green one. Everyone with a properly tune-demmed hi-fi knows green is the worst sounding insulation for cables but the best sounding LED color.

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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by lejonklou »

Geoff wrote: 2019-06-11 11:41 I'm pretty certain we've all been watching that seventy page monster over on the Wam.
Never heard about it.

I'm happy you mentioned the rules in here. If any witless audio mobster states that certain differences are "impossible", despite people regularly reporting they make a difference, that mobster is not welcome here.
Geoff wrote: 2019-06-11 11:41While we all have our test tracks that we love, it does make sense to hew to the common.
No, I don't and it certainly doesn't.

I have found that sticking to the same list of tracks will sooner or later make you fall into a trap. (The meaning of falling into a trap is to choose an option that in the moment appears better but in reality is musically worse.)

I just got myself out of a trap, by back tracking every change I'd made for several months to the design of a lower cost MC phono preamp. I finally found the original mistake today (yesss!!!) and now the prototype once again sings like a bird. I now need to go through and retest all the changes made since the original mistake, to make sure none of them was a compensation for the original mistake (and in reality worse instead of better).

The reason why I fell into the trap was that I hadn't changed music for a while. Sooner or later, that makes you deaf. The way I found it was by listening with new music. Three different genres, three different time periods. Deafness cured.

Spannko: So, which was which? Everyone preferred number 1 and it would be fun to know what it is.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote: 2019-06-14 14:56I just got myself out of a trap, by back tracking every change I'd made for several months to the design of a lower cost MC phono preamp. I finally found the original mistake today (yesss!!!) and now the prototype once again sings like a bird. I now need to go through and retest all the changes made since the original mistake, to make sure none of them was a compensation for the original mistake (and in reality worse instead of better).
Glad you found what you were looking for. Must be a relief!

Good reminder for us all to keep changing that tune! Also, if it's a track I really like then I feel listening too much kinda spoils it for a while. Good luck with the lower cost MC phono! I have a question but will create another thread.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Geoff »

I listened with Etymotic ER4's through my LG V30 with the quad DAC at full throttle, and while I was in the room, it needed to be way louder. I did all five in order of appearance, and then went back to one. I maybe see why some folks here like one. Two and three seemed to present more edge detail, two especially I think. The thing I struggled to find any ability to comment on is the bass, as the volume just couldn't get me there. I could hear it, but barely.

I will agree there were differences that were noticeable even in this presentation. Man it's scary how good our hifi's, and the supporting cast in this exercise are, that we can even do this, isn't it? It really puts paid to the folks that say Ethernet is Ethernet.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by Spannko »

lejonklou wrote: 2019-06-14 14:56 I just got myself out of a trap, by back tracking every change I'd made for several months to the design of a lower cost MC phono preamp. I finally found the original mistake today (yesss!!!) and now the prototype once again sings like a bird. I now need to go through and retest all the changes made since the original mistake, to make sure none of them was a compensation for the original mistake (and in reality worse instead of better).
Thank goodness it’s not just me! The reason I’ve gone quiet is because I’m furiously backtracking to get myself out of a pickle. I had the electrician in to finally fit my power cable, which meant I had to move my system. When I put my system back, I accidentally put one of the cables the wrong way round, and for some reason (because the system was no longer as enjoyable to listen to), I got it into my head that I needed to change the Ethernet cables. NB I’m not using the new power cable yet, although he got the cable in, he didn’t connect it before going on holiday and then buggering off to another job!

I started hearing ‘improvements’ which gradually just seemed to make things worse. What highlighted this for me was that you all chose the cable which was my previous favourite and the one I had moved away from. Even though my system wasn’t sounding as good, I was ok with this because I was convinced that everything would be ok when I’d got the length right. At the time, changing length appeared to make more of a difference than changing cable type.

Oh dear, how embarrassing! The whole ordeal has even had me questioning my ability to hear any meaningful difference at all, which probably won’t come as a surprise to some of you!

Anyway, not only did you all choose the same favourite cable, you also all chose the same top three and the worse one. That’s pretty impressive!

The order of preference was:
1. Meicord
2. Veetop (shielding disconnected), £7 from Amazon
3. Belden 1303e
4. Microconnect
5. Lapp (the green one!)

Now I’ve discovered the problem, I’ll record the cables again.
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by lejonklou »

One mistake can indeed cause a lot of confusion. Good thing you seem to have fixed it now, Spannko.

So Meicord was the best. Never tested one, do you have a link to it?

Do you have a Blue Jeans Cable to throw into the mix?
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Re: Ethernet Cable Bake-off

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: 2019-06-15 11:38 So Meicord was the best. Never tested one, do you have a link to it?
http://www.meicord.com/index.php?id=82&L=3

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