Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-16 20:10

I have now had my Akurate 242's (mk3 with upgraded bases) for almost four years now and wondered what could be a suitable replacement.Power amps are Dynamik Solo's (latest version) & the pre a KDSM Kayalyst.
Have considered Raidho D1.1 & B&W 802 & Kudos Titan 606/707 as well as I just staying with Linn & with Akubarik Passive...

Would appreciate on any feedback on suggested alternatives though needs to be a good improvement on the 242's as I dont want to change for the sake of it..

Would want something that I could buy second hand or x dem etc and budget is max 7k ish....
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Spannko » 2019-02-17 00:32

You’ve got what is generally considered to be an excellent system (amongst the Tune Demming fraternity) so I’d suggest undertaking a thorough analysis of your system before making any changes, otherwise you could end up chasing your tail like most of us have done at one time or another.

What do you like about your system?
What don’t you like about your system?
What is your exact setup? eg equipment supports, interconnects, ancillary equipment, mains supply and (particularly) connections in the supply?
Was the system set up using a Tune Method or not?

If you can answer these questions it will help us to point you in the right direction.

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-17 08:08

What do you like about your system?
Vocals in particular female vocals (which I listen too a lot)
What don’t you like about your system?
Would like more bass at times in particular on My recent addition a completely rebuilt Garrard 301(as sig)
What is your exact setup? eg equipment supports, interconnects, ancillary equipment, mains supply and (particularly)
connections in the supply?
System housed in a wooden/sideboard cabinet,interconnects all Linn Silvers & Speaker Cables K400.No changes to the mains supply connects into the supply all my kit into a Grahams 6way block.Other connects into the other double plug Router & Apple Time Capsule
Was the system set up using a Tune Method or not?
No as I dont understand it ,it is space optimised but again as I dont really understand it only the basic setup.
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by sunbeamgls » 2019-02-17 10:18

Spannko asked some very pertinent questions and your responses are helpful.

Where are you based pidge (just a rough area) there may be people in your area who could help with set up and after set up, if necessary, adjustment of SPACE? SPACE is very rarely right at the default calculation, especially in a non-Exakt system, and usually takes out a bit too much bass which is as you describe. Getting the positioning of the speakers right to start with is important. You may have them right and SPACE needs a little tweaking or the basics may not be right and in that case SPACE is going to struggle to make the system better.
AEDSM; AEBox/1; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC 20.26. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-17 10:49

Hi I am nr Southwell Nottingham

thanks
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by cjs » 2019-02-17 12:08

I know that this would not solve the issues you describe with your turntable, but for the digital side of your system I would recommend a listen to a combination of an Innuos Zenith Music Server with an Aqua La Voce DAC.

You would obviously need a pre-amp in this situation. Keeping the KDSM is an option but, financially, it would seem better to go for a Sagatun or a KK.

Another option you could consider would be swapping out the Linn silvers for Audioquest Waters. I have had great results with this recently.

As with everything about our hobby "better" is very subjective, so I would always suggest getting a demo.

And finally, Kudos Titan 606s or 707s would also be great options!

Decisions, decisions!
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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-17 12:19

I know that this would not solve the issues you describe with your turntable, but for the digital side of your system I would recommend a listen to a combination of an Innuos Zenith Music Server with an Aqua La Voce DAC.

You would obviously need a pre-amp in this situation. Keeping the KDSM is an option but, financially, it would seem better to go for a Sagatun or a KK.

Another option you could consider would be swapping out the Linn silvers for Audioquest Waters. I have had great results with this recently.

As with everything about our hobby "better" is very subjective, so I would always suggest getting a demo.

And finally, Kudos Titan 606s or 707s would also be great options!

Decisions, decisions!


I have just come from a KK to the KDSM/2 so this would be a would be a backwards step & I dont see the Sagatun being any better than what I have & have no intention of coming away from the digital part of my system the KDSM/2 which I am more than happy with....I have no issue with my turntables either ?? this thread was simply taking advice as to potential better speakers out there or sticking with the 242's for the time being....
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by lejonklou » 2019-02-17 12:36

Have you evaluated what Space does to your 242's, pidge?

Switching it off might be cheapest upgrade you've ever made.

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by maffe » 2019-02-17 12:41

I think the advise about tuning your system first before replacing anything is really good one!
If you replace the 242s with new speakers you will be at the same point as you are now if not tuned.
Speaking from experience I know how much a well executed tuning make for performance.
I had the dealer setting the speakers up and later two forum members helped me fine tune the positioning of my speakers. Took a n evening of moving them around, but it was well spent hours.
So my advise before you buy something new, make sure you get the best out out what you have and after that evaluate the result :)
I know I can squeeze mere out of my system with better shelf’s like the “mimer”, but for time being it’s not an option.

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by cjs » 2019-02-17 12:47

Apologies for misconstruing the following from your previous post as issues with your turntable.

"What don’t you like about your system?
Would like more bass at times in particular on My recent addition a completely rebuilt Garrard 301(as sig) "
Kantata Audio - Lejonklou | Kudos | Innuos

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Spannko » 2019-02-17 18:42

Just to get things clear pidge22, are you only looking for speaker ideas or are you open to ideas based on getting the best out of your current system too?

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-17 18:51

Whilst i am really looking for advice on if i should change my speakers & if so too what as per my original thread but if I get advice on possible imrovements elsewhere then I would always consider that as well..
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-02-17 20:11

I have a friend with a similar system to yours: Klimax SE LP12, KK (last version), Solos (non-Dynamik) and 242's Mk III.
It's very well set up and he doesn't use Space Optimization. It doesn't sound thin at all, so I think there's quite a bit of mileage left in your gear, you just need to optimize the placement of the gear (better rack?), better speaker placement (the 242's are very demanding) and furthermore, do try without SO, or if you have to have, spend a couple of days getting it right.
How are the acoustics in your room btw?

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-17 20:16

Acoustic not good... in a garden room with a lot of glass....though we are about to have Shutters Fitted....tried it earlier without SO & preferred it with..
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Spannko » 2019-02-17 20:32

How do you feel about doing a video of your system playing some music so we can get a better feel for what’s going on?

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-17 21:01

How do you feel about doing a video of your system playing some music so we can get a better feel for what’s going on?
No problem are we talkng about a simple video on my iphone ?
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Music Lover » 2019-02-17 21:29

maffe wrote:
2019-02-17 12:41
I think the advise about tuning your system first before replacing anything is really good one!
Many good advices in this post.

If I can elaborate....
Source first rules = I suggest you get a "Harmonihyllan" rack, a good NAS and optimise the digital network (switch, ethernet cables etc.
Then tune everything.
And...242 will never produce proper bass. You need bigger speakers for that. (owned 242, active Isobarik, Keltik and Komri among many other speakers)
But WITH tuning you probably going to enjoy the bass in 242 a LOT more. And possibly think they are "good enough".

One more thing, add a good pre-amp, KK or preferably Sagatun Mono.
Source first = address everything before starting to think about replacing the 242.

Ok then...speaker suggestions:
- Komri
- Huge JBL https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... hilit=3677
Staying with current Linn speakers, I say Akubarik. Not that much better than 242 but with more bass. And turn off all digital tweaking! (Space etc)
It's all about musical understanding!

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-17 21:42

Many good advices in this post.

If I can elaborate....
Source first rules = I suggest you get a "Harmonihyllan" rack, a good NAS and optimise the digital network (switch, ethernet cables etc.
Then tune everything.
And...242 will never produce proper bass. You need bigger speakers for that. (owned 242, active Isobarik, Keltik and Komri among many other speakers)
But WITH tuning you probably going to enjoy the bass in 242 a LOT more. And possibly think they are "good enough".

One more thing, add a good pre-amp, KK or preferably Sagatun Mono.
Source first = address everything before starting to think about replacing the 242.

Ok then...speaker suggestions:
- Komri
- Huge JBL https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... hilit=3677
Staying with current Linn speakers, I say Akubarik. Not that much better than 242 but with more bass. And turn off all digital tweaking! (Space etc)


Thanks for the feeback as stated before I have come from a KK/1 to the KDSM Katalyst and am quite pleased with its pre-amp capabilities though have thought about Sagatun Mono but questioned if it would be better than the KDSM...don't really want to invest too much time & money in the Digital side as this only accounts for 10% of my listening which is mostly vinyl....have tried to research Harmoni Racks but can find little info on these...
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2019-02-18 10:05

Brief recommendation for totem acoustic tribe tower loudspeakers. £4999--£5999 depending on the finish and they dig really deep, are easy to position, look great, have a small footprint and would meet your requirements imo.
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Avalon » 2019-02-18 11:41

Hi Pidge,
I can only give you my experience having owned 242's for 12 happy years. About 3 years ago my system was Klimax Ds/1 , Klimax Twin dyn, Klimax KK1 and 242's. Not exactly the same but close enough to have some relevance for you.

I did go exakt with the 242's, which was definitely a very major step forward, but that might not be something you would consider and would be a major financial commitment . Even if you did go exakt I would still recommend that you change your speakers.

I upgraded mine to linn Akubariks and I can describe to you what the general improvements will be.

The isobarik bass is very important and goes much much deeper than the 242's and it is a very tuneful and accurate bass response. I do use space optimisation and have a fair bit of experience with it, Paulsurround from the old place is a good friend of mine and we have experimented a lot together with SO. I will say that unless your room is problematic I find that SO switched off with my Akubariks gives a very good account of itself. I am not sure whether this is the affect of exakt or just good speaker design , I suspect good design.
The 3 k aray on the Akubariks is quite a bit better compared to the 242's more detail more open, better space from the mids to the highs and not as sharp as the 242's could sometimes be . The mid range is very very good.

So within Linn world Akubariks are an easy recommendation and you would not need to spend £7k to get a very good used pair.

I would like to suggest another area where you could experiment with, your interconnects.

I have been using linn silvers for the past couple of years, however last year when I upgraded my 2 Akurate 6 boxes to Katalyst I was disappointed when they returned to me. I felt that the sound was just too delineated, too much information and not as musical as the old ones. after a few months of trial and error, messing about with SO, my friend and new dealer CJS an audioquest dealer suggested that we swap out the linn powers on the 6 boxes for audioquest z cables, I was very pleased and impressed, the warmth and musicality returned. I am in the process of changing the silvers for audioquest waters , well the last 2 cables anyway as I have 5 of everything.
I have found that the Linn silvers do not perform as well with Kataylst gear as with their older sources. I suppose things have moved on and while still a respectable cable, you can do better.

I am not trying to sell you on Audioquest, merely on the idea that before you do anything, borrow some cables from a dealer or a friend. You will be surprised by the level of improvements you can achieve by looking at powers and interconnects. You do need to try different ones out first to make sure its all to your liking and they could give you the improvements you are searching for with out spending too much.

Once again, this is my story and my experience and I am quite a hard sell, I really have to believe in something or I wont do it. There are many good speakers out there and some excellent recommendations made on this thread. Good luck with your quest and always listen in your home first...

Avalon
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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Spannko » 2019-02-18 15:06

pidge22 wrote:
2019-02-17 21:01
How do you feel about doing a video of your system playing some music so we can get a better feel for what’s going on?
No problem are we talkng about a simple video on my iphone ?
An iPhone video would be great.

Firstly, a video of the system just as it is would provide a baseline from which any changes can be compared.

Then record a video without doing anything but turning SO off. Now, I know you prefer your system with SO on, but SO shouldn’t be used until the very end of system setup, otherwise we could be compensating for errors in setup, rather than eliminating them. We can return to SO when you’ve worked through the suggestions above and are happy with the system.

I’d also suggest turning SO off again before evaluating any new components in the future. Then you can return to SO knowing there’s been a real improvement in the underlying musicality.

EDIT. Reading Tokenbrit’s post below reminded me that you haven’t been asked about how you feel about the musicality of your system. Do you feel that the problem with your system is just that it lacks bass or does it lack musicality too?
Last edited by Spannko on 2019-02-18 18:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-02-18 17:13

The only indication we have to go on, so far, is that you'd "like more bass at times in particular on My recent addition a completely rebuilt Garrard 301", as to what might have prompted considering moving on from your 242s. Does that mean that all other sources sound better/good to you, and it's mostly the Garrard that sounds a little bass shy?

I don't know if you've had the cart replaced as part of the complete rebuild. If so, maybe it needs a little break-in time, or is it possible that the post rebuild deck set-up could require a little adjustment? Just curious that you mention the recently added source, primarily, in describing what you feel is missing from the 242s... Could it be that it's missing from the source, and not from the speakers?

Otherwise, completely agree with Spannko

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by pidge22 » 2019-02-18 20:11

I have some great feeback & advice though I think I will probably stick with the Akutare 242's for the time being looking back over the last few months I have replaced a KRDS/1 & KK/1 with a KDSM Katalyst,an Akiva with a Kandid on my Lp12 as well as buying a fully rebuilt CTC Garrard 301 (with an oversize platter) with the very impressive SME 3009-R with a new Dynavector XX2 and finally a Loricraft PRC3 RCM......
Probably will now try & enjoy what I have though will probably tweak the 242 placement a bit & a new hifi stand (about to order) is a must....
Saying all of that if I saw a pair oif Akubarik Passive at the right price I would probably give them some serious consideration as that would be the safest bet for me as I do like the Linn Akurate "signature sound"....
KDSM2,Klimax Solo's/1,Lp12,Keel,Radikal/1,Aro,Kandid,CTC Garrard 301,Tron Seven,Akurate 242's

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-02-19 14:33

pidge22 wrote:
2019-02-17 21:42
...have tried to research Harmoni Racks but can find little info on these...
You can find info on the Harmoni Racks here, but it's only in Swedish, I'm afraid: http://www.harmonihyllan.se/
You could of course call Anders, I'm sure he'll be able to help you.
Another very good rack is the German Time Table, but again info is difficult to come by, as the website is only in German:
http://www.timetable-hifi.de/TIMETABLE- ... DELLE.html

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Re: Possibly time to move on from Akurate 242's but to what?

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2019-02-20 10:10

If you have a lot of glass and henceforth a fairly live sounding room then I totally understand why you're thinking of changing the speakers.
For what it's worth the famed DJ, musician and record producer Mark Ronson has just purchased a pair of totem acoustic tribe tower loudspeakers. He was so impressed with mine when he came round, he's gone out and bought a pair.
OK the last sentence is a bit of fun but he has bought some.
Its a shame you don't live nearer, I could've fetched mine over.
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.

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