Advice in upgrade path

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NinthWave
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Advice in upgrade path

Post by NinthWave »

I think I got here because I was googling for Aktiv boxes and I have since been reading all evening since monday.
The actual system can be seen here https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 535#p39533

Preamble
  • I actually like the sound of the system but there is always place for improvement.
  • I do believe in source first.
  • I prefer separate components as IMHO, it's an easier way to upgrade and, if anything fails beyond repairs, one is not left with nothing.
  • I like my Ninkas and as stated in point 1, I would change them at last resort because being Aktiv, I would need a new set of cards unless there is another way (I read a topic asking Lejonklou to build third party aktiv boxes).
  • Apart from the Ninkas, any component can be another brand, lets say Lejonklou.
  • I am in the stereo business but a voice channel could interest me...
  • There are no reseller of Lejonklou in Canada and closest in USA in about 3000 km from where I live.
Upgrade path
Going from an Arcam α8 CD to Cambridge SM6 v2 was a big improvement. Then, going from LK140 passive to Aktiv was another step.

The Kairn and LKs were quite nice beasts when I got out of the university in 1996 and the Klout, I could not even dream of it back then and at the price tag they still go now, I'm not leaning this way.

So I was looking for a way to upgrade in a logical order but the week I spent browsing the forum did not help. I though of the AV5xxx line as I read that the 5103 preamp was an hidden secret and also that the 5105 or 5125 could be retrofited with the Ninka Stereo Aktiv Cards already in hand.

I have a good aquaintance that used to work 10 years for a Linn dealer but left about five years ago. I asked him about the AV5xxx series and he said that, if his memory was right, according to him, the AV were not such an upgrade and that they were less reliable than the Kairn and LKs.

From what I understand, a Linn DS is better than a DSM of the same range and that goes along with the fact that I prefer separate boxes. For FLAC listening, I could be tempted by an Akurate DS. I am opened to suggestions.
The only drawback not going DSM is that I do watch TV and the SM6 has Toslink input but an ADS would not...

Then, next component, I have read some posts ranking the LeJonklou preamp above an Akurate Kontrol, wich from I have read, the model and year should be selected meticulously as they are getting more analytical than musical. Or was it the Exotik?

Then, I could upgrade the LKs but having been "converted" to Aktiv, I wonder if actively searching for Aktiv boxes would be worth it with my mere Ninkas or if far superior amps would compensate for the loss of Aktiv setup?

Should I upgrade speakers instead?

How could I listen to Lejonklou stuff apart from visiting Sweden?

Any help is welcome.

Nicolas

My primary tongue is French so be lenient and forgive my limited vocabulary for describing my situation.
Last edited by NinthWave on 2019-01-14 00:06, edited 1 time in total.
Stream Magic 6v2 | HAKAI testing < Kairn < LK140 | LK85 < Ninka AKTIV
Charlie1
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Re: Advice in upgrade path

Post by Charlie1 »

Welcome to the forum NinthWave.

I don't think your amps and speakers will hamper your enjoyment of music provided you have a good source, so your plan to hang onto Ninkas makes sense to me. Also makes sense to hang onto the LK amps, as I assume you like what they do and it's OK to mix 85 and 140s.

Seems to me you're best bet is a source upgrade. Have you considered the Hakai self-assemble streamer? 'Lego' has one and he runs Kairn with Aktiv Ninkas. He's delighted with the combination.

What speaker cable and interconnects do you have?

What's the budget?
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Re: Advice in upgrade path

Post by Ozzzy189 »

I used to run active and passive ninkas. Active with 2x lk140 and an lk85 on the treble. I had a kairn pre and a genki cd player. One of my most noticeable upgrades was changing the genki to a majik ds and next swapping out the kairn for an Exotik, source first but as good as it was years ago, the kairn was hiding do much detail it wasn't funny. I stumbled across Lejonklou and Chris Fuller helped me to decide that going passive would be well worth a shot. The single tundra, which was better sounding and more musical than the three lk amps combined, music was more coherent and instruments appeared to have more separation without sounding disjointed. Sagatun pre amps came along with an akurate ds and that was a gigantic step. My system improved and became more enjoyable and musical as I exchanged the linn pieces for Fred's stuff, I was so impressed.
It was fun and I never expected these unassuming little boxes knocked up in Sweden by one bloke (more or less) to destroy the things made by a big well known hifi company in Scotland. Feel free to ask any questions. It was a journey that's for sure! Welcome to the forum.
Ozzzy
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
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Re: Advice in upgrade path

Post by Lego »

Ozzzy189 wrote: 2019-01-13 19:58 I used to run active and passive ninkas. Active with 2x lk140 and an lk85 on the treble. I had a kairn pre and a genki cd player. One of my most noticeable upgrades was changing the genki to a majik ds and next swapping out the kairn for an Exotik, source first but as good as it was years ago, the kairn was hiding do much detail it wasn't funny. I stumbled across Lejonklou and Chris Fuller helped me to decide that going passive would be well worth a shot. The single tundra, which was better sounding and more musical than the three lk amps combined, music was more coherent and instruments appeared to have more separation without sounding disjointed. Sagatun pre amps came along with an akurate ds and that was a gigantic step. My system improved and became more enjoyable and musical as I exchanged the linn pieces for Fred's stuff, I was so impressed.
It was fun and I never expected these unassuming little boxes knocked up in Sweden by one bloke (more or less) to destroy the things made by a big well known hifi company in Scotland. Feel free to ask any questions. It was a journey that's for sure! Welcome to the forum.
Ozzzy
How come you drove the treble with lk85, did they sound better than 140s
I know that tune
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Re: Advice in upgrade path

Post by NinthWave »

Ozzzy189 wrote: 2019-01-13 19:58 I used to run active and passive ninkas. [...] My system improved and became more enjoyable and musical as I exchanged the linn pieces for Fred's stuff, I was so impressed.
It was fun and I never expected these unassuming little boxes knocked up in Sweden by one bloke (more or less) to destroy the things made by a big well known hifi company in Scotland. Feel free to ask any questions. It was a journey that's for sure! Welcome to the forum.
Ozzzy
I am glad you commented since you had quite a journey and seems pretty active on the forum.

I don't know if you seen my system, but the plant's racks I completed last week, amazingly improved the room's acoustic beyond any expectations and, this renewed my interest in sitting in the sweet spot just to listen at music. Within the last two weeks, I bought about ten CDs, all from Ludovico Einaudi and Angèle Dubeau et La Pietà. Strings and Piano at their best.

Some may disagree, but what the plant's racks did to the acoustic brought me to think that, in the concept of "source first", the room is the first component in the system and therefore, follows the "garbage in, garbage out". One can't expect any miracles in a ceramic bathroom, even from an 70K$ Linn Exact system. Don't get me wrong; the system was quite nice in itself from the beginning, but I had to cope with that damn 2¾m patio door. Now that my botanical needs had this unpredictable side effect, it might be time to move forward and improve the electronics as my first component is "perfect".

I could engage myself in an upgrade path similar to yours that goes: Akurate DS, Sagatun, then Tundra.

Would you think, in your experienced knowledge, that trying get my hands on an Aktiv Box to go active with two tundras would be worth it? Those boxes seem pretty rare.

Thanks again for your input.

Nicolas
Stream Magic 6v2 | HAKAI testing < Kairn < LK140 | LK85 < Ninka AKTIV
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Re: Advice in upgrade path

Post by NinthWave »

Charlie1 wrote: 2019-01-13 11:18 [...]Seems to me you're best bet is a source upgrade. Have you considered the Hakai self-assemble streamer? 'Lego' has one and he runs Kairn with Aktiv Ninkas. He's delighted with the combination.

What speaker cable and interconnects do you have?

What's the budget?
Is the Hakai that good that it would outperform my Cambridge SM6 v2? I could assemble one when my SM6 dies but unless I have a listen for one I did not pay for, that would no be my first update.

My interconnects are mostly Linn blacks and one or two Infinite Cables, a Canadian company that outsource to China but they have cheap sturdy cables to offer. https://www.infinitecables.com/audio-an ... dio-cable/

My speaker cables are Linn K400, equal but unknown length and dyson electronic connector.

Nicolas
Stream Magic 6v2 | HAKAI testing < Kairn < LK140 | LK85 < Ninka AKTIV
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Re: Advice in upgrade path

Post by Ozzzy189 »

Lego wrote: 2019-01-13 23:29
Ozzzy189 wrote: 2019-01-13 19:58 I used to run active and passive ninkas. Active with 2x lk140 and an lk85 on the treble. I had a kairn pre and a genki cd player. One of my most noticeable upgrades was changing the genki to a majik ds and next swapping out the kairn for an Exotik, source first but as good as it was years ago, the kairn was hiding do much detail it wasn't funny. I stumbled across Lejonklou and Chris Fuller helped me to decide that going passive would be well worth a shot. The single tundra, which was better sounding and more musical than the three lk amps combined, music was more coherent and instruments appeared to have more separation without sounding disjointed. Sagatun pre amps came along with an akurate ds and that was a gigantic step. My system improved and became more enjoyable and musical as I exchanged the linn pieces for Fred's stuff, I was so impressed.
It was fun and I never expected these unassuming little boxes knocked up in Sweden by one bloke (more or less) to destroy the things made by a big well known hifi company in Scotland. Feel free to ask any questions. It was a journey that's for sure! Welcome to the forum.
Ozzzy
How come you drove the treble with lk85, did they sound better than 140s
Yes, although you'd usually run the more powerful amp on the treble, the fact that there were 4 bass/mids meant that at the time when I had one of each 85+140, the 85 wasn't as efficient as the more powerful amp running four drivers. When I bought another I kept it that way for balance as I never actually got round to buying a third 140 because I sacked it all off to go passive when I borrowed a tundra 1.1
Hopr this explains why I ran my system like that.
Ozzzy
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
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Re: Advice in upgrade path

Post by Ozzzy189 »

NinthWave wrote: 2019-01-14 04:56
Ozzzy189 wrote: 2019-01-13 19:58 I used to run active and passive ninkas. [...] My system improved and became more enjoyable and musical as I exchanged the linn pieces for Fred's stuff, I was so impressed.
It was fun and I never expected these unassuming little boxes knocked up in Sweden by one bloke (more or less) to destroy the things made by a big well known hifi company in Scotland. Feel free to ask any questions. It was a journey that's for sure! Welcome to the forum.
Ozzzy
I am glad you commented since you had quite a journey and seems pretty active on the forum.

I don't know if you seen my system, but the plant's racks I completed last week, amazingly improved the room's acoustic beyond any expectations and, this renewed my interest in sitting in the sweet spot just to listen at music. Within the last two weeks, I bought about ten CDs, all from Ludovico Einaudi and Angèle Dubeau et La Pietà. Strings and Piano at their best.

Some may disagree, but what the plant's racks did to the acoustic brought me to think that, in the concept of "source first", the room is the first component in the system and therefore, follows the "garbage in, garbage out". One can't expect any miracles in a ceramic bathroom, even from an 70K$ Linn Exact system. Don't get me wrong; the system was quite nice in itself from the beginning, but I had to cope with that damn 2¾m patio door. Now that my botanical needs had this unpredictable side effect, it might be time to move forward and improve the electronics as my first component is "perfect".

I could engage myself in an upgrade path similar to yours that goes: Akurate DS, Sagatun, then Tundra.

Would you think, in your experienced knowledge, that trying get my hands on an Aktiv Box to go active with two tundras would be worth it? Those boxes seem pretty rare.

Thanks again for your input.

Nicolas
Hi
Absolutely spot on regarding the room. My system is in my lounge with little room for positioning and although there's a couple of sofas, it's still pretty live sounding and needs a bit more in the way of softening the sound.
With regards to the exaxt query, I'd ask SUNBEAMGLS as he's got more experience with this. For me exakt holds no interest and I am a fan of simple passive systems.
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
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Re: Advice in upgrade path

Post by u252agz »

I also started with active Ninkas and LK140s -( in my case Ikemi cd player and kairn prea amp ) and have had a wonderful journey, with navigation being provided by the kind members of the forum.

Source first is always a great place to start - ADSM katalyst is regarded as very good, if a tad expensive.

Replacing triactive LK140 Ninkas to single wire passive / Tundra stereo is a huge step forward and I agree with Ozzy on this.

Lejonklou preamps are out of this world and whilst some are happy with the digital volume controls of current Linn DSM units,
many of us prefer analogue preamps ( current dvc in top end Linn DSMs may be fine as an interim measure)

Optimizing interconnects and speaker cables makes quite a difference, as does a decent NAS drive for the streamer.

Ninkas are great and will keep you going until you have addressed the electronics and cables.

Good luck and enjoy.
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e

Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
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