Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

Moderator: Staff

Post Reply
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Matteo »

Any goods? Very few comments around.

I have the budget to get (considering trade-in) only one of these two following options:

1. Klimax Radikal for Akurate Radikal;
2. Ekos SE/1 for Akito 2b.

Leaving alone the unsolved hierarchy problem with Klimax/Akurate Radikal, I wonder if the upgrade from the current Akito to the Ekos SE/1 is worthwile with the Kore.

The cartridge is an Adikt.

Keel does not support the Akito's uplift, while Kore seems perfectly compatible with EKOS SE/1, as states by the Linn official website:

https://www.linn.co.uk/sources/turntabl ... assis#keel ["Available for Ekos SE, Ekos, Ittok tonearms"]

https://www.linn.co.uk/sources/turntabl ... assis#kore ["Compatible with Linn Ekos SE, Ekos, Akito, and Ittok tonearms"]

M.
Chet
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 2018-09-04 12:07
Location: UK

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Chet »

Hi Matteo,

I did the Akito upgrade to Ekos Se/1, but I also did the Kore to Keel at the same time, so whilst not definitive, my feeling is go for the Ekos Se/1 upgrade first.

I think the Kore is very good in its own right.

Hope that helps,
Chet.
LP12 > CD12 > KK1 > Twins >350's Activ
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Matteo »

Chet wrote: 2018-12-05 14:45 Hi Matteo,

I did the Akito upgrade to Ekos Se/1, but I also did the Kore to Keel at the same time, so whilst not definitive, my feeling is go for the Ekos Se/1 upgrade first.

I think the Kore is very good in its own right.

Hope that helps,
Chet.
Thanks Chet

Mixed opinions on the Keel vs. Kore, opposite to the Akito/Ekos or Klimax/Akurate Radikal, where there is almost a consensus.

On the Hifi Kabin forum, a couple of years ago Peter of Cymbiosis stated:

Q: Peter. I know its a "listen and see hear" but would a Klimax Radikal be a better upgrade than changing my ITTOK LVIII to an EKOS 2/

A: On the evidence of what Chris and I heard... An unequivocal YES!

https://hifikabin.me.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1662&start=10

M.
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by ThomasOK »

An interesting conundrum! The Ekos SE/1 would certainly be a substantial upgrade over the Akito 3 on the Kore subchassis. While hierarchically you would want to do the subchassis first, practicality can cause it to make more sense the other way around. Remember that an Ekos 2 was a pretty massive upgrade over an Ittok LVII with the standard subchassis. Since the Ekos SE/1 is a big upgrade from an Ekos 2, whereas the Akito 3 is roughly equal to an Ittok LVII, the upgrade will not be subtle. I hadn't known there was any controversy about the Kore vs. the Keel, which I find to be easily more musical. But there are always those who like a little softening in their music. There are at least a few people who like the Krystal more than the Kandid. Even though the Krystal is indeed a very good cartridge, the Kandid does easily pull more music out of the groove.

As to the KRadikal vs. the ARadikal I can only go on theory. As you know I found the KRadikal to indeed be more musical than the ARadikal, not day and night like a Radikal over a Lingo but still worthwhile. From the standpoint of the hierarchy anything that comes earlier in the chain will be musically more important than what comes later in the chain. Source first. My experience so far has been that the hierarchy always works. When I first started at Overture Audio I was told that the Linto, which I didn't then own, was so good it might break the hierarchy and be more important than the Lingo. I had a Lingo but the store also has a Valhalla in a box with a Lingo connector that was made for demonstrations when the Lingo came out. So I took home the Linto and the Valhalla in a box. While there was no question that the Linto killed the phono stage in my Kairn, there was also no question whatsoever that the Lingo with the Kairn was way more musical than the Valhalla with the Linto. Hierarchy validated!

So based on theory I would expect the KRadikal with the lesser arm to be more musical than the ARadikal with the better arm. But this is not a comparison I have actually done so I can't say for sure.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Matteo »

Thanks Thomas

Very informative as usual

M
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Charlie1 »

Can you dem either or both of the upgrades?
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Matteo »

Charlie1 wrote: 2018-12-05 19:06 Can you dem either or both of the upgrades?
Not with my system and with an A-B-A test

M
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Charlie1 »

You can't really go wrong either way can you - as both options are at the top of the Linn ladder. I've not heard the Akurate to Klimax Radikal improvement, and perhaps that's why I have a feeling that, in your shoes, I'd put material ownership above musical involvement. I think the pull of owning a lovely Ekos SE would be too great for me.
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Matteo »

Charlie1 wrote: 2018-12-06 10:13 You can't really go wrong either way can you - as both options are at the top of the Linn ladder. I've not heard the Akurate to Klimax Radikal improvement, and perhaps that's why I have a feeling that, in your shoes, I'd put material ownership above musical involvement. I think the pull of owning a lovely Ekos SE would be too great for me.
Me too ...

Of course, with the Akito grey T-Kable ...

M.
Chet
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 2018-09-04 12:07
Location: UK

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Chet »

"Mixed opinions on the Keel vs. Kore"

For clarity, the Keel is definately better than the Kore, what I meant is that the Kore is still very good in its own right (and better value for money!).

I would still go the EKos SE/1 upgrade first.

Radikal testing, you would really have to do what Frederick says, as even different ages of Radikal (Akurate or Klimax) will sound better or worse. Newer ones I would assume better. So taking your AK Rad (older) vs new K Rad, the Klimax will definately be better. Yes based on personal experience.
LP12 > CD12 > KK1 > Twins >350's Activ
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by Matteo »

Chet

I was intending that, based on my web research, it is not clear in theory if Keel/Akito is better of Kore/Ekos or not.

My AR is of Spring 2016.

M.
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by ThomasOK »

Chet wrote: 2018-12-06 13:16 "Mixed opinions on the Keel vs. Kore"

For clarity, the Keel is definately better than the Kore, what I meant is that the Kore is still very good in its own right (and better value for money!).

I would still go the EKos SE/1 upgrade first.

Radikal testing, you would really have to do what Frederick says, as even different ages of Radikal (Akurate or Klimax) will sound better or worse. Newer ones I would assume better. So taking your AK Rad (older) vs new K Rad, the Klimax will definately be better. Yes based on personal experience.
Got you. The Kore is indeed quite good, probably on the order of 80 to 85% of the Keel. Since it is not much more than a third of the price of the Keel it is obviously a good buy. Whether it is a better value for money is a personal decision as the best often costs a significant amount more, and the Keel is still the second biggest musical upgrade I've heard, after a Radikal.

The Radikals I posted the clips on (which aren't up there any more) were both in the one to two year old range and both had been precision torqued. My friend and customer, Simon, who was with me when I created the clips ordered a Klimax Radikal within a week and had me sell his Akurate one. YMMV.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by ThomasOK »

Matteo wrote: 2018-12-06 16:17 Chet

I was intending that, based on my web research, it is not clear in theory if Keel/Akito is better of Kore/Ekos or not.

My AR is of Spring 2016.

M.
I would say that, based on web research, you can come to any conclusion you like about anything!

In theory a Keel/Akito should indeed be better than a Kore/Ekos. Just as my customer's Radikal/Cirkus subchassis/Basik LV-X/AT95e was better than my Lingo 2/Kore/Ekos 2/Adikt when we did the comparisons a couple of years ago. Source first!
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
u252agz
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 786
Joined: 2013-10-03 12:44
Location: UK

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by u252agz »

Charlie1 wrote: 2018-12-06 10:13 You can't really go wrong either way can you - as both options are at the top of the Linn ladder. I've not heard the Akurate to Klimax Radikal improvement, and perhaps that's why I have a feeling that, in your shoes, I'd put material ownership above musical involvement. I think the pull of owning a lovely Ekos SE would be too great for me.
The Klimax Radikal is also a thing of great beauty and, the aesthetics were the only reason that I chose this over an Akkurate Radikal !

Against Forum 'rules' - but sometimes its good to rebel.
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e

Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by ThomasOK »

u252agz wrote: 2018-12-07 13:58
Charlie1 wrote: 2018-12-06 10:13 You can't really go wrong either way can you - as both options are at the top of the Linn ladder. I've not heard the Akurate to Klimax Radikal improvement, and perhaps that's why I have a feeling that, in your shoes, I'd put material ownership above musical involvement. I think the pull of owning a lovely Ekos SE would be too great for me.
The Klimax Radikal is also a thing of great beauty and, the aesthetics were the only reason that I chose this over an Akkurate Radikal !

Against Forum 'rules' - but sometimes its good to rebel.
I don't see how it is against forum rules to buy something that is physically more attractive if it sounds at least as good, which you would certainly expect with the Klimax Radikal. In this case, since it is more musical IME, the better looks is a bonus. In addition the size and style fits well with my Lejonklou electronics.

Now if it were prettier yet musically worse and more money, then I think most of us would have a hard time justifying it.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
u252agz
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 786
Joined: 2013-10-03 12:44
Location: UK

Re: Ekos SE/1 w/Kore

Post by u252agz »

At the time I thought the two Radikals were the same and for the price of the Klimax Unit , I could have just abut also upgraded Kore to Keel.

But the aesthetics led me astray to a less musical option for the same money.

No regrets though as the black KDS/2 and Radikal units look perfectly matched with my Sagatun Monos and the Slipsik 6 sits on the bottom shelf with my black Ash Lp12 on top - Tundra Monos unfortunately had to go in the AV unit.

Sounds even better than it looks - which is the best bit.
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e

Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
Post Reply