Moved from "On the Inside" /Az
I am looking to add a subwoofer to the following system:
Sneaky DS, AV5125, Active Katan on stands in a fairly large room (5.5 x 6.5 meters)
I have read good reviews on REL subwoofers as to their ability to blend into a system and is therefore considering buying a used one to add some low-end fill to my system. Does anyone have an advice on which model to go for? The ones I have thought about are the Strata II, Storm III or the Stentor II. Size of the woofer is not an issue, but I would not like to pay more than necessary and the Stentor II costs about 3-times that of a Strata II. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!
Systems advice - adding a subwoofer
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I have found REL subs to work quite well with Linn speakers as you can see in the thread in the Hi-Fi section.
Of the three models you mentioned I would probably recommend going with the Storm III. The Stentor II is undoubtedly a great sub but it is certainly likely to be expensive and is really overkill for your system. The Storm is a very good sounding sub and will be able to keep up with anything the Katans can put out. Also being a III series means that it will outperform a II series Strata or Storm and has a better and more flexible crossover. The Stentor II would be better sounding yet and should have enough adjustability in the crossover to match up well with the Katans but I think you'd be better off putting the extra money into the source - a Majik DS and a Kikkin, for example.
Of the three models you mentioned I would probably recommend going with the Storm III. The Stentor II is undoubtedly a great sub but it is certainly likely to be expensive and is really overkill for your system. The Storm is a very good sounding sub and will be able to keep up with anything the Katans can put out. Also being a III series means that it will outperform a II series Strata or Storm and has a better and more flexible crossover. The Stentor II would be better sounding yet and should have enough adjustability in the crossover to match up well with the Katans but I think you'd be better off putting the extra money into the source - a Majik DS and a Kikkin, for example.
Thank you very much for the thorough reply - I read your other thread with interest before posting, but decided to start a separate one not to start an OT discussion there:)
To give an idea of the pricing of the respective subs, the Storm will cost approximately $750 and the Stentor $1250. I think that the Sneaky DS will be my source for a while since I just bought it, but the saved money might be useful to get some help with proper installation :)
To give an idea of the pricing of the respective subs, the Storm will cost approximately $750 and the Stentor $1250. I think that the Sneaky DS will be my source for a while since I just bought it, but the saved money might be useful to get some help with proper installation :)
The Seaky DS as a source is supposed to be really good given the price. But after what I have heard about the performance of the internal volume control in Majik DS, I'm sceptical about using the internal volume in Sneaky. I think that a Kikkin really is a no-brainer, given that you don't want to use more than one source.
I agree with Azazello on the idea of putting a Kikkin into the system as the digital level control is not the best sounding. I don't know what the Kikkin sells for so I'm not sure how well it fits in your budget.
However, considering the prices you list I would have to reverse myself and say go for the Stentor II as that is a quite good price for it and lower than I was expecting. The Stentor II is a substantially better (more melodic, tuneful, musical) than the Storm III and also goes lower with more power capability. Although you won't need the extra power capabilities for your Katans you will have it there if you upgrade to larger speakers later. And the improved musicality and extension will be a noticeable improvement right now. It is pretty safe to say that you would never outgrow the Stentor no matter how you upgrade your system. Unless, of course, you win the lottery! :)
However, considering the prices you list I would have to reverse myself and say go for the Stentor II as that is a quite good price for it and lower than I was expecting. The Stentor II is a substantially better (more melodic, tuneful, musical) than the Storm III and also goes lower with more power capability. Although you won't need the extra power capabilities for your Katans you will have it there if you upgrade to larger speakers later. And the improved musicality and extension will be a noticeable improvement right now. It is pretty safe to say that you would never outgrow the Stentor no matter how you upgrade your system. Unless, of course, you win the lottery! :)
Thank you for the advice - I hope that the Stentor is still for sale then and will get this one if possible. The Kikkin sounds like a useful upgrade and I should probably consider this upgrade as well. The budget is rather strained at the moment, but we all need something to save for don't we :mrgreen:
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Music Lover
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The only direct comparison of Linn vs. REL subs that I have done is the Sizmik vs. the REL Storm III and Strata III. I have not yet heard a Klimax/Artikulat sub. I have heard the AV5150/Melodik subs which I thought to be good sounding but did not compare them directly to the REL units. We did have an Akurate 221 sub in briefly for demo set up by our Linn rep at the time - none of us were particularly impressed with it. As Linn are replacing it with an updated model my guess is that the world was not overwhelmed by a $4000+ 8 inch subwoofer. :)
I think it says something that everyone who works here (or even has worked here in the past) who has a subwoofer in their stereo system has a REL subwoofer. This regardless of whether their speakers are Linn, Sonus Faber, ATC or AVI. And we all use Linn sources and electronics (except TJ who imports AVI
).
I think it says something that everyone who works here (or even has worked here in the past) who has a subwoofer in their stereo system has a REL subwoofer. This regardless of whether their speakers are Linn, Sonus Faber, ATC or AVI. And we all use Linn sources and electronics (except TJ who imports AVI
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Without comparing with Linn better subs that is.ThomasOK wrote: I think it says something that everyone who works here (or even has worked here in the past) who has a subwoofer in their stereo system has a REL subwoofer.
You may have a chock when you finally compare...
It's all about musical understanding!
Try the Sneaky's preamp
I have switched between the snaky pre and my exotik and ok the latter wins everytime but somehow the sneaky manages to hold music "together" very good. It rocks if you like and will gve you detail but perhaps it lacks in the spatial dimension Give it a try.Azazello wrote:The Sneaky DS as a source is supposed to be really good given the price. But after what I have heard about the performance of the internal volume control in Majik DS, I'm sceptical about using the internal volume in Sneaky. I think that a Kikkin really is a no-brainer, given that you don't want to use more than one source.
I just came back from installing oreo's REL Stentor II. Very interesting and quite a different sub from the Linn models I'm used to.
On the positive side, the fine tuning of the upper frequency limit (the low pass filter) can be set very accurately. The lowest bass was also well controlled and not sluggish like most low quality subwoofers.
On the negative, the gain is set with an analogue scale, which makes it difficult to go back and forth between different settings. There is also no lower frequency limit (high pass filter), which in my view is important to properly integrate the sub with the room. The sub had to be used with the lowest low pass filter setting, I felt that it couldn't handle any higher bass frequencies with quality.
I managed to get the Stentor II working reasonably well with the Katans. It added some low bass frequencies, but on the whole the quality didn't improve as much as I wanted. With a really good sub, you feel that quality decreases when you turn it off. Without the Stentor II I just felt that the bass got thinner. More a loss of quantity than quality.
One interesting thing is that REL's highly recommended use of the high level inputs, with the signal being taken from the speaker outputs on the power amplifier, didn't work well at all. It sounded clearly better when connecting it with a black interconnect from the line level out on the power amp. And best of all was to use one interconnect only, not stereo. The same as I often find when installing Linn subs.
Of all the parts in the system, I felt the Stentor II contributed the least to the overall quality. But the system ended up sounding really good, I hope oreo thinks so too!
On the positive side, the fine tuning of the upper frequency limit (the low pass filter) can be set very accurately. The lowest bass was also well controlled and not sluggish like most low quality subwoofers.
On the negative, the gain is set with an analogue scale, which makes it difficult to go back and forth between different settings. There is also no lower frequency limit (high pass filter), which in my view is important to properly integrate the sub with the room. The sub had to be used with the lowest low pass filter setting, I felt that it couldn't handle any higher bass frequencies with quality.
I managed to get the Stentor II working reasonably well with the Katans. It added some low bass frequencies, but on the whole the quality didn't improve as much as I wanted. With a really good sub, you feel that quality decreases when you turn it off. Without the Stentor II I just felt that the bass got thinner. More a loss of quantity than quality.
One interesting thing is that REL's highly recommended use of the high level inputs, with the signal being taken from the speaker outputs on the power amplifier, didn't work well at all. It sounded clearly better when connecting it with a black interconnect from the line level out on the power amp. And best of all was to use one interconnect only, not stereo. The same as I often find when installing Linn subs.
Of all the parts in the system, I felt the Stentor II contributed the least to the overall quality. But the system ended up sounding really good, I hope oreo thinks so too!
Do you think a storm III will improve musicality on my sneaky/komponent system, or is a Sizmik more tuneful?(don't care about quantity)ThomasOK wrote:The only direct comparison of Linn vs. REL subs that I have done is the Sizmik vs. the REL Storm III and Strata III. I have not yet heard a Klimax/Artikulat sub. I have heard the AV5150/Melodik subs which I thought to be good sounding but did not compare them directly to the REL units. We did have an Akurate 221 sub in briefly for demo set up by our Linn rep at the time - none of us were particularly impressed with it. As Linn are replacing it with an updated model my guess is that the world was not overwhelmed by a $4000+ 8 inch subwoofer. :)
I think it says something that everyone who works here (or even has worked here in the past) who has a subwoofer in their stereo system has a REL subwoofer. This regardless of whether their speakers are Linn, Sonus Faber, ATC or AVI. And we all use Linn sources and electronics (except TJ who imports AVI