The Linn forum is officially dead

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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macrotech2
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The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by macrotech2 » 2018-10-08 17:06

It's dead Jim.

Go to the usual forum page for the announcement.
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Peter@57m » 2018-10-08 18:20

Linn Forum
8th October 2018
For the past few weeks the Linn Forum has been offline as we held our global product launches of Selekt DSM. During this time we have taken the opportunity to review the purpose, moderation and usage of the platform and have reached the conclusion that it is no longer viable for us to manage it in its current format.

Our approach in the past few years has been to take a light touch with moderation, but it’s become increasingly clear that a healthy forum needs more than that.

As a manufacturing organisation we want to focus all of our efforts on developing innovative products and so feel it is more appropriate for these conversations to take place in other forums where the resource is in place to appropriately support members.

Going forward, we are looking to address the gaps for forum members who are looking to connect with Linn:

Product issues and technical support: contact our customer support team on helpline@linn.co.uk or using the 'Report to Linn' function within your product

Expanded product information, product user guides and software information: use our reference site Linn Docs docs.linn.co.uk

Beta testing programme: a new beta platform will launch in the coming weeks and we will share details with you as soon as we can

We understand that there is a community within the Linn Forum who will want to continue their conversations on topics such as their system set up, the HiFi industry and many other things and so we are delighted to be able to announce that Hifi Wigwam will be partnering with us to allow this conversation to continue. The team at the 'Wam have already set up a Linn space and look forward to welcoming you to their community.
________________
Regards, Peter

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by FangfossFlyer » 2018-10-08 19:10

Definitely an end of an era and makes me wonder where Linn is going!

At least my LP12 sounds as good today as it did yesterday.

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Defender » 2018-10-08 19:34

this company is on a strange move - in my opinion its not a lot respect to some really enthusiastic people who fixed problems for them when some of the dealers didnt want to or couldnt or have been not available.

thank you to a lot of people who contributed a lot in the Linn forum

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by vicdiaz » 2018-10-08 20:04

Is very sad that years of invaluable information that was collected in the Linn Forum are no longer available. Time to move on.
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by dasher » 2018-10-08 20:25

Disappointing.

Although I have nothing against the 'Wam, they were two very different things. At the very least I would expect Linn to make the archive available. I can fully understand them moving away from hosting the forum - but to let the archive go is a sad move.

I do wonder where they are going but I'm sure that they have good business reasons for it. I suspect that if they profiled their target customer going forwards then I may not fit that well.

For me, this place is a much better fit than the Wam.

Goodbye Linn, I've stayed with you because I do prefer an active system and I do think that you have done that well. My LP12 will remain spinning but I suspect that my electronics are going to continue to migrate elsewhere.

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Macallan » 2018-10-08 21:15

This is very sad and I am convinced that it is a wrong decision of Linn to take.

Sad because a enjoyable and productive community is destroyed. Wrong decision because it slams the door shut to a significant customer base who believe that an open support forum is essential for a technology based company.

I cannot believe that the light forum moderation has taken up significant resources so far. There were not that many contributions by Linn employees. However, those contributions were very valuable and I think the Linn engineers actually very much enjoyed interacting with the customers in this way.

Probably, Linn did not like the direction that some threads on the forum have taken, e.g. using Linn technology in ways that they were not intended for. They could have either applied a little more moderation (e.g. discreetly informing posters that this is not desired, or setting up a little stricter forum rules) --OR-- just letting things develop without intervening (perhaps just indicating that this is not official Linn position). The latter would have been a sign of strength actually.

I still think that the Linn forum was in a 'healthy' state, and could have continued that way, with only small amount of additional moderation.

For me, neither going to a third party sub-forum (where is that Wigwam Linn space??) nor Facebook/Twitter is an adequate replacement.

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Wolfie » 2018-10-08 21:43

Macallan wrote:This is very sad and I am convinced that it is a wrong decision of Linn to take.

Sad because a enjoyable and productive community is destroyed. Wrong decision because it slams the door shut to a significant customer base who believe that an open support forum is essential for a technology based company.

I cannot believe that the light forum moderation has taken up significant resources so far. There were not that many contributions by Linn employees. However, those contributions were very valuable and I think the Linn engineers actually very much enjoyed interacting with the customers in this way.

Probably, Linn did not like the direction that some threads on the forum have taken, e.g. using Linn technology in ways that they were not intended for. They could have either applied a little more moderation (e.g. discreetly informing posters that this is not desired, or setting up a little stricter forum rules) --OR-- just letting things develop without intervening (perhaps just indicating that this is not official Linn position). The latter would have been a sign of strength actually.

I still think that the Linn forum was in a 'healthy' state, and could have continued that way, with only small amount of additional moderation.

For me, neither going to a third party sub-forum (where is that Wigwam Linn space??) nor Facebook/Twitter is an adequate replacement.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said.
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Resonant Frequency » 2018-10-08 22:32

Famous and respected hifi manufacturer procures shot gun, removes shoes and socks, takes careful aim and shoots itself in the left foot. Six weeks later reloads and shoots it self in the right foot, later wonders why it is not able to walk!

RIP Linn forum, it was a great place to meet and learn from other music and hifi enthusiasts .... I will certainly miss going there. I somehow can’t envisage myself de-camping to the Wigwam, though I never felt inclined to go there in the past. As I am never happy to accept being pushed in any direction by anyone so I doubt that I will accept this hefty shove from Mr Linn.

Thanks to Frederick for being kind enough to host the escapees from that other forum that will now remain at least for me forever nameless.

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Music Lover » 2018-10-08 22:54

Good lord!

vicdiaz wrote:Is very sad that years of invaluable information that was collected in the Linn Forum are no longer available.
Agree
A huge lack of respect to loyal customers that spent hours posting.
It's all about musical understanding!

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Andrew L » 2018-10-08 22:56

Well said. One other aspect not mentioned so far is the loss of all PMs on the Linn forum. I corresponded privately through the PM utility with a number of other members worldwide and much useful information was archived in these messages which is now lost.
Secondly I rarely visited Linn's own website and frequently learnt of new products and developments solely through the forum. Too bad!
Macallan wrote:This is very sad and I am convinced that it is a wrong decision of Linn to take.

.....
For me, neither going to a third party sub-forum (where is that Wigwam Linn space??) nor Facebook/Twitter is an adequate replacement.
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Charlie1 » 2018-10-08 23:12

Andrew L wrote:One other aspect not mentioned so far is the loss of all PMs on the Linn forum. I corresponded privately through the PM utility with a number of other members worldwide and much useful information was archived in these messages which is now lost.
Yeah, that's pretty poor - they should have given PM read access for a short period.
I don't think I had anything important in there, but maybe if enough people ask the Helpdesk for their messages back then they may enable read access for a short period.

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Charly » 2018-10-08 23:16

Macallan wrote:This is very sad and I am convinced that it is a wrong decision of Linn to take.

Sad because a enjoyable and productive community is destroyed. Wrong decision because it slams the door shut to a significant customer base who believe that an open support forum is essential for a technology based company.

I cannot believe that the light forum moderation has taken up significant resources so far. There were not that many contributions by Linn employees. However, those contributions were very valuable and I think the Linn engineers actually very much enjoyed interacting with the customers in this way.

Probably, Linn did not like the direction that some threads on the forum have taken, e.g. using Linn technology in ways that they were not intended for. They could have either applied a little more moderation (e.g. discreetly informing posters that this is not desired, or setting up a little stricter forum rules) --OR-- just letting things develop without intervening (perhaps just indicating that this is not official Linn position). The latter would have been a sign of strength actually.

I still think that the Linn forum was in a 'healthy' state, and could have continued that way, with only small amount of additional moderation.

For me, neither going to a third party sub-forum (where is that Wigwam Linn space??) nor Facebook/Twitter is an adequate replacement.

Very very well said !! 100 % agreed!

This move from LINN is absolute disappointing and in my view a major disrespect to all long term customers. Unbelievable.
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by fredrik » 2018-10-08 23:25

Music Lover wrote:Good lord!

vicdiaz wrote:Is very sad that years of invaluable information that was collected in the Linn Forum are no longer available.
Agree
A huge lack of respect to loyal customers that spent hours posting.
I agree with both of you, there was an immense collection of information that is now lost. They could have reopened it read only with the PM system up and running. (ie in archived mode). But it is extremely dumb to switch off a marketing channel like the forum.

I also went to the recommeded hifi Wigwam form where they supposedly should have set up a "Linn Space". I found one thread under Owners Club, "Linn SPACE optimisation".. What is this? A joke?

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by jlrchrds » 2018-10-09 00:22

It’s silly the info is gone. I can tell you no dealer, or Linn for that matter, ever offered as much support - as Briain - when I had DS problems back in 2009. That help kept me hooked into using a DS when it wasn’t quite soup. Many of us helped people aktivate old systems and deal with tech issues. I could actually ask Phil questions about Linn speaker design and setup, that was really cool and a great way to further connect people and product. They must see the site as a perception issue... the forum will deter new people from purchasing Linn. Well okay, but it will drive sone us old timers away. I’ll be looking up Thomas in the future. I’m done after over 30 years of exclusive Linn. Linn want to be something different, handwriting is on the wall. Jeff

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2018-10-09 08:16

From a selfish point of view I hope this pushes a few folks into looking at Lejonklou as an alternative to linn, it certainly warrants attention. From a personal point of view I think this decision is absolutely incredible. They've basically just said 'screw you community, we don't need you'. In this day and age of social media and the way many people live their lives online, binning your official forum is like cutting off your own arm. It's unbelievable and I think it's a terrible decision and it makes no sense to me at all.
The one thing I AM concerned about is now its happened, will the rest of the linnies invade us here and start turning this into linn forum 2.0 with some daft threads and inane 'banter'. I mean this with the greatest of respect to the linn ex-forum members but this is the Lejonklou forum and I'm sure Fredrik wants to keep it that way but still be appreciative of the increased footfall albeit concerned with the issues that could arise with the increase in numbers.
I hope this comes across as intended, with no malice and light of heart. Forgive me for the wording, I'm rushing and have a bad headache, I know it doesn't read that well.
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Matteo » 2018-10-09 08:54

Ozzzy189 wrote:From a selfish point of view I hope this pushes a few folks into looking at Lejonklou as an alternative to linn, it certainly warrants attention. From a personal point of view I think this decision is absolutely incredible. They've basically just said 'screw you community, we don't need you'. In this day and age of social media and the way many people live their lives online, binning your official forum is like cutting off your own arm. It's unbelievable and I think it's a terrible decision and it makes no sense to me at all.
The one thing I AM concerned about is now its happened, will the rest of the linnies invade us here and start turning this into linn forum 2.0 with some daft threads and inane 'banter'. I mean this with the greatest of respect to the linn ex-forum members but this is the Lejonklou forum and I'm sure Fredrik wants to keep it that way but still be appreciative of the increased footfall albeit concerned with the issues that could arise with the increase in numbers.
I hope this comes across as intended, with no malice and light of heart. Forgive me for the wording, I'm rushing and have a bad headache, I know it doesn't read that well.
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by DavidHB » 2018-10-09 11:11

While I understand why Linn might feel that the resources needed for hosting the forum would be better used elsewhere, I think that the move is short-sighted. I also think that it will be more painful for active forum members (most of them good Linn customers) than Linn realise, or perhaps want to know. I particularly feel for the LP12 users, who, so far as I can see, have nowhere else to go.

Although it is easy to dream up dark conspiracy theories as to why the forum has been closed, I prefer to stick with my general rule of life that, if stupidity can be the cause, you should suspect that first. Clearly, the active members on the forum were only a small proportion of Linn's customer base. But, when you looked at the stats on the forum of who was online, there were always far more non-members than members. This means that significant numbers of interested people were 'listening in' to the conversations of the active members. All of that is now lost; Linn have closed an important channel of communication with their customer base, and the alternatives they suggest don't really fill the gap. IMO, Linn themselves will be the main loser from that.

The key point in the Linn announcement is:

"As a manufacturing organisation we want to focus all of our efforts on developing innovative products and so feel it is more appropriate for these conversations to take place in other forums where the resource is in place to appropriately support members."

If Linn really believe that all they are there to do is develop and make product, then they are on a slippery slope. As Fredrik so rightly points out, people buy quality Hi-Fi because of the quality of the experience it provides. People who make and sell Hi-Fi therefore need to have a particular relationship with and understanding of their customers. Cutting oneself off from those customers who actually want to communicate their interest in your products is hardly a clever thing to do.

David

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by anthony » 2018-10-09 11:23

The lp12 has been a steady seller for over 40 years.
No forum for much of this period.
Do you believe sales will now drop?

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2018-10-09 11:51

Maybe not Anthony but times have changed a lot over 40 years. It's also questionable whether that is their main focus anymore anyway.
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Linncredible » 2018-10-09 12:02

anthony wrote:Do you believe sales will now drop?
There is quite a risk that sales of some products will drop: the forum has been my main channel of information about upgrades (for example Katalyst, Dynamik) during the past years. In the future, it will be necessary for Linn and the dealers to take a much more active approach when it comes to (more detailed) information about upgrades than what has been the case so far. If that is not adressed, opportunities to sell will be missed.

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by H2017 » 2018-10-09 12:05

anthony wrote:The lp12 has been a steady seller for over 40 years.
No forum for much of this period.
Do you believe sales will now drop?

Linn went actively out of communication with his customers!
What do they want to tell us really?
I will not try to put this into words - might be too harsh.

I always enjoyed Linn-Forum to get Information and ideas how to develop my HiFi-Setup. I think from now on others will influence me and my decisions.... (look at my signature ;-))

So I hope others will continue to develop very very nice HiFi and I will hear of it - somewhere else.... (I don´t like to surf on marketing-driven high glossy WWW-advertisements....)

Good bye Linn
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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by Flatcoat » 2018-10-09 12:08

Wam have stated:

It's all been a bit sudden and I'm working hard with Linn to try and get all the content that has been lovingly written passed over and a lot of the retail conversation too.

So it looks as though they will have an archive of Linn forum posts in the future.

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by DavidHB » 2018-10-09 12:09

anthony wrote:The LP12 has been a steady seller for over 40 years. No forum for much of this period. Do you believe sales will now drop?
TBH, I had not considered that question; I was simply commenting that the closure of the forum would be even worse news for contributing LP12 owners than owners of other products. But consider the following.

LP12 sales have not been steady over the years; in the 1990s, they dropped to tiny numbers. The period during which the Linn forum has existed has been one of reviving interest in the LP as a source in general and the LP12 in particular. As I understand it, upgrades account for a significant proportion of LP12 sales, and upgrades were the stuff of discussion in the LP12 section of the forum. It must be the case that many decisions to go to a dealer and start discussing an upgrade were prompted by forum discussion. Actually that was the case earlier this year with my own decision to buy my first LP12. So I suspect that closing the forum will not do the sales of LP12 any good.

Linn are not standing still, of course. Apart from the new product already extensively discussed in this forum, they are making strenuous efforts to develop their dealer network, particularly in North America, where they have had their eye off the ball for a number of years. I suspect that they are also becoming more 'proprietary' in their approach to things. Their abandonment of much of the open source work they were supporting, which admittedly was not getting the degree of attention they had hoped for, was a case in point. Closure of a resource-heavy and sometimes inconvenient forum can bee seen as in line with that train of thought. But I still think that it is a bad move all round.

David
Last edited by DavidHB on 2018-10-09 12:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Linn forum is officially dead

Post by DavidHB » 2018-10-09 12:10

Flatcoat wrote:Wam have stated:

It's all been a bit sudden and I'm working hard with Linn to try and get all the content that has been lovingly written passed over and a lot of the retail conversation too.

So it looks as though they will have an archive of Linn forum posts in the future.
That's good news. Thanks for the info.

David

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