Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.
Posted: 2018-09-21 18:00
too much complications
all you need is come back to the good old vinyls
all you need is come back to the good old vinyls
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/
OK, got it, thanks :-) -- Although I find it a bit strange that the calculation is not simply done on the PC (thereby neither relying on the DS nor on the cloud)Jumanji wrote:The calculation is currently done in the DS, not the PC (at least that is my understanding)
So if it is done in the Cloud, obvioulsy the results need to be fed into the DS, probably via Konfig, but we will see.
I was told one could still use the existing filters. Not sure whether that means the cloud results are donwloaded to Konfig and live in coexistence with the cloud filters.
I would also hope there is an Import feature to upload all the measurements from Konfig to the cloud rather than have to input it all again. And only the new data, e.g. position of Windows and carpets etc, need to be entered.
if by "the cloud" we mean Linn's server (wherever that may be located, perhaps in the cloud proper), then quite a lot of S)/Exakt is already done there. If the server is doing the calculations, then Linn have total control of them, and don't need to worry about different variants of Konfig and Davaar on user machines. Also, if fixes or updates to the calculation software are required, a single update on the server is valid for all subsequent users. I'm not a massive fan of the cloud in general, but in this case I think it makes sense (so long as the server keeps running, of course!)Jumanji wrote:Cloud is the way to go...
1. Good question. Linn has stated that their Class-D amp design achieves "lower distortion and noise than our existing Chakra amps". I recall similar verbiage being used to describe the DVC and hence the discontinuation of Linn analog preamps. It certainly would complete the all digital, all the time path they seem to be on.Donald wrote:Thanks ThomasOK - very informative.
A couple of additional questions: -
1. The Bridged Class-D amplifier with post-filter feedback - is Class-D the future direction of travel for all Linn power amplifiers?
2. Power supply - one of the What Hi-Fi pages has a picture of a Selekt with the cover off. What's that lurking behind the IEC socket - a new power supply?? Whither Dynamik??
https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/linn-selekt-dsm
According to What Hi-Fi Linn demoed against the Naim Uniti Nova. The owner here, who was at the US rollout, confirmed that. The Uniti Nova sells for $6995 in the US and the Selekt DSM is $5200 base and $7000 with Katalyst. I was told that the first comparison was with the base Selekt DSM vs. the Uniti so I'd say that it was more than fair.matthias wrote:Thanks Thomas,
according to Dagogo Linn demoed the Selekt vs. a Naim Uniti Star, quite an unfair comparison.
Even the better Uniti Nova is much cheaper than the Selekt.
Matt
This hasn't been clearly stated but I would certainly hope that all Exaktbox-I units will be subject to the upgrade, it really wouldn't make sense any other way.Rudi64 wrote:Anyone knows its possible to upgrade the "old" Majik Exaktbox I to Katalyst or do you
have to buy the Akurate Exaktbox I to make that step in the future?
Selekt DSM units are supposed to start shipping to dealers September 24th. So the new software versions coming on the 25th are right on time for everything to work together. Again, I don't know for sure how the distribution of the new SO software is going to be handled, I just noticed the mention of getting it from the dealer portal. It could be nothing more than giving the dealers access to it first so they have an idea as to what is going on when customers start calling. So I wouldn't read too much into that wording. Linn does view SO as a major competitive advantage for Linn and is putting much R&D into improving it. I believe the fact that new SO is coming out before new SO+ reflects Linn's desire to attract "New to Linn" customers by selling them compelling streamer/preamp (and possibly power amp) combos that work with whatever components they already have, particularly speakers. This was indicated by Linn using B&W and Wilson speakers for the demo. "We will take whatever speaker you like and make it sound better." is the takeaway I get.timster wrote:Does anyone know when the Selekt is coming to market? With Pins being a selling point, and with hardware buttons, Davaar 64 and Kazoo will need releasing first wouldn't they?
Linn did say that they spent a lot of time making sure that the connections don't mess up the sound. They also, of course, mention that it is all with digital signals so presumably lossless. YMMV.Music Lover wrote:A lot of raving about the modularity in this thread.
Only me that don't like that?
With modules, a lot of connections and drop of performance.
However, I understand it make sense in an "all-in-all" product adding flexibility.
I'm pretty sure name change and new box come at the same time - I have seen a photo of the Akurate Exaktbox-I, it's just not up on the Linn site yet. As stated before, Katalyst will come sometime in 2019.timster wrote:And 'No' next to Katalyst. Guess the name change comes first, the box after. Konfused?Matteo wrote:https://www.linn.co.uk/speakers-and-amp ... exaktbox-i
The Linn website still has the image of Majik Exaktbox-I
In what sense better? I don't think we can judge until we've heard it, in comparison with products we already know (including, of course Lejonklou amps).Ozzzy189 wrote:If linn wanted to go after devialet punters I'd have expected better amplification than the level they've bunged in this box.
According to Thomas, there's a new remote in the works. Whether and to what extent it will mimic the fancy knob is not, I think, yet known. There are advantages of course in having the main control firmly attached to the device, the main one being that you can't mislay it.Ozzzy189 wrote:Plus that dongle knob... I can't believe it's not something you can remove and have near your listening position.
Ozzzy189 wrote:Surely there's some klimax beating amp tech incoming?
In what way compromised? Selekt is explicitly not top of the range. There is the special case of the KDS vs the KDSM to which Thomas has drawn attention; however, that isn't a new release but a case of retiring a product which, one has to assume, is no longer selling particularly well. The underlying logic of "source first" remains as valid as ever; the problem is often in defining what we mean by "source". That is particularly true when you run an LP12 into an Exakt system, as I do. I don't think that any of the Selekt products represent any sort of compromise of the "source first" approach.Ozzzy189 wrote:Source first? Maybe less so now they're releasing a compromised box.
Some years ago, Gilad spoke (I believe at a dealer event) of the two 'wings' of Linn's customer base - the "enthusiast" market and the "high end music system" market; there is of course a substantial amount of overlap between them. The enthusiast/audiophile market has had quite a lot of attention recently, with Akurate level Katalyst, the Lingo 4 and the Urika II, and Linn has not introduced a new product for the broader market since the launch of the 5 Series speakers; arguably something like Selekt was well overdue. I see no sign that Linn are abandoning their audiophile customers.Ozzzy189 wrote:I'm thinking that the traditional audiophile is no longer their main focus, which is a great shame as its those folks who've helped put them where they are.
I do agree with you on that.Ozzzy189 wrote:Its going to be an interesting few months that's for sure.
I only want to use it for something very specific to my use, purely to switch input in an Alexa routine given an event, but the point is - Pins are being used as a USP for the Selekt from what I have seen in the reviews anyway - the computer audiophile in particular:BB1 wrote:
Don’t be too excited about Pins. I’m on Davaar and iOS Kazoo beta, hence it’s already available to me. In its current implementation you’re only able to set Pins for content on Qobuz/Tidal, radio stations and physical DSM inputs. But right now it isn’t possible to
- assign a pin to anything located on your local server
- assign a pin to any of „My playlists“
which limits its usefulness in my use case.
So they'd better get it working by the 25th :)P.S. I also call this feature the guilty pleasure preview. I love Taylor Swift's 1989 album and listen to it frequently. When the Selekt DSM arrives for review, I just might pin this album to one of the buttons. On a normal system this would set me up for a tremendous ribbing from my friends should I accidentally select this button rather than the Muscular Manly playlist during a party. On the Selekt DSM this little preview feature could save the day and save me from the obligatory, "it's my daughters preset" lie.
I am using the 64 Beta Davaar on a DS and DSM with Pins and Alexa. So Pins aren’t Selekt specific.timster wrote:I only want to use it for something very specific to my use, purely to switch input in an Alexa routine given an event, but the point is - Pins are being used as a USP for the Selekt from what I have seen in the reviews anyway - the computer audiophile in particular:BB1 wrote:
Don’t be too excited about Pins. I’m on Davaar and iOS Kazoo beta, hence it’s already available to me. In its current implementation you’re only able to set Pins for content on Qobuz/Tidal, radio stations and physical DSM inputs. But right now it isn’t possible to
- assign a pin to anything located on your local server
- assign a pin to any of „My playlists“
which limits its usefulness in my use case.
Well I do, actually. I miss the buttons I had on my Akurate DSM now that I have a Klimax Exakt DSM (sorry Klimax Exakt Hub). Of course I want the remote as well, and the control point too. If you are using a record deck (and Selekt has a phono stage), controls on the DSM are particularly useful.Ozzzy189 wrote:Firstly, who wants a control rooted to the box? That's insane. Imagine a TV where the main control is on the TV chassis and not on your lap? This isn't much different in that respect.
Although I see them as part of the same technological/manufacturing trend, the introduction of Selekt is separate from the discontinuation of the DS products. The latter is surely a case of a product line having run its course in the market place; if the DS line were still profitable, Linn would presumably be keeping it in the catalogue. And of course any "compromise" is not a once for all thing; I haven't heard the comparison myself, but I'd be very surprised if a pre-Katalyst KDS sounds better than a Katalyst KDSM. Future product improvement could well make today's compromise irrelevant.Ozzzy189 wrote:I said the source was compromised because its pretty well known that a ds is a better source than a dsm. Those are being discontinued, so in that respect these aren't as good as the sources being phased out.
In principle, I'd have to agree. In practice, anyone who has seen some of the more recent Linn boards will have been impressed at how much component density for the same functionality has been reduced. I am sure that this represents a significant part of the performance improvement we have seen with Katalyst. I shall be very interested to see what the component density is like in the Selekt range.Ozzzy189 wrote:If the amplification is between majik and akurate then again that leaves me cold seeing as neither impresses me. Listen, I'm not doing it down, I've not heard it, but these things are usually compromised to get pretty much everything into one box. They say that they haven't compromised the SQ, yet that just can't be true. How can it NOT be when there's all that extra gubbins inside?
From the point of view of the enthusiast, I think Jumanji has it exactly right. We want Linn to have a product line that keeps them in business. As to whom the Selekt produkt line is aimed at, if you can manage a visit to any one of the dealers listed in the "Book a demo" link on the Linn website, they will explain it to you. For myself, I meet quite a lot of people interested in good quality music reproduction in the home, but only a minority of them are interested in Hi-Fi as such. The remainder tend to give more weight than I would to visual design, box count and ease of use against best available sound quality. If (big if) Selekt performs as well for the generally fussy members of this forum as well as the initial reviews make out, it will not represent any kind of sound quality compromise in the wider market, but that market will expect nothing less at the price.Ozzzy189 wrote:I get it, it's not aimed at me, or most of the people posting here imo. I aren't quite sure who it's aimed at tbh. I do kind of like the xboxy look of it but I just find it hard to get excited about it and find it all very anti-climatic
Absolutely. A small but very significant point which, I feel, can often escape some of the naysayers.DavidHB wrote:
We want Linn to have a product line that keeps them in business.
David
+1Moomintroll wrote:Absolutely. A small but very significant point which, I feel, can often escape some of the naysayers.DavidHB wrote:
We want Linn to have a product line that keeps them in business.
David
‘troll
Go on, you know you want to! ;-). See PM.Moomintroll wrote:
New 350 firmware appeared in beta yesterday, but there was no explanation of what it did in the release notes, so I haven’t applied it.
‘troll
Not at all irrelevant.DavidHB wrote:Although I see them as part of the same technological/manufacturing trend, the introduction of Selekt is separate from the discontinuation of the DS products. The latter is surely a case of a product line having run its course in the market place; if the DS line were still profitable, Linn would presumably be keeping it in the catalogue. And of course any "compromise" is not a once for all thing; I haven't heard the comparison myself, but I'd be very surprised if a pre-Katalyst KDS sounds better than a Katalyst KDSM. Future product improvement could well make today's compromise irrelevant.Ozzzy189 wrote:I said the source was compromised because its pretty well known that a ds is a better source than a dsm. Those are being discontinued, so in that respect these aren't as good as the sources being phased out.
I think this a feeling shared by many. I find it a significant change in direction for Linn to stop making their most musical digital source component in favor of one that offers more features and flexibility but less music. This is not something we expect from Linn (although the KK discontinuation might be considered a presage). I don't have a problem with the Selekt and look froward to having one in the store, as it presents a product that I believe there is a market for and is somewhat of an upscale, modern Classik Music, a product we bemoaned the loss of. For those wanting fewer compromises there is the Akurate range, although admittedly for more money. But giving up performance for convenience at the top of the range does not sit well.Music Lover wrote:Not at all irrelevant.DavidHB wrote:Although I see them as part of the same technological/manufacturing trend, the introduction of Selekt is separate from the discontinuation of the DS products. The latter is surely a case of a product line having run its course in the market place; if the DS line were still profitable, Linn would presumably be keeping it in the catalogue. And of course any "compromise" is not a once for all thing; I haven't heard the comparison myself, but I'd be very surprised if a pre-Katalyst KDS sounds better than a Katalyst KDSM. Future product improvement could well make today's compromise irrelevant.Ozzzy189 wrote:I said the source was compromised because its pretty well known that a ds is a better source than a dsm. Those are being discontinued, so in that respect these aren't as good as the sources being phased out.
How good would a no compromised KDS be?
THAT is the real question.
When Linn introduced Exakt and Space, with it's marketing spinn about technical stuff and message "you can position the speakers where you like and then compensate with DSP") they lost me.
Previously Linn was dedicated to ultimate performance, tweaking in absurdum. Loved that commitment.
Now it seems that Linn is just another high end company.
I still like them to prosper but for me - performance is the only important item.
Thanks god we have Lejonklou and JBL.
Linn specifically stated that the new Space Optimisation would work with all DS units, including the earliest versions. I'm pretty sure that there are relatively small differences in software from one Klimax DS/DSM to the next so it shouldn't cost much in the way of additional resources to cover all models. Linn has also said that pins would work with all DS/DSMs, the only advantages the Selekt DSM has here are the six buttons on the unit and the replication of them on the coming remote. (Although there is no reason to believe that you couldn't use the Selekt remote with other Linn units.) Linn has continued to support every DS and DSM product they have made with every software release and I don't see any reason this would change.Music at Home wrote:ThomasOK, did Linn make any commitment to include the DS range in future firmware releases, or will that come to an end as well now?