Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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timster
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-27 09:18

Jumanji wrote:
timster wrote:
Jumanji wrote:Kazoo also shows System in Room.
I guess Linn are confused themselves...
J.
Kazoo shows the Room text not the device name. Which is correct if they continue with the "waiting for room" and Add room dialogues etc.
Alexa also uses the Room name - which actually is probably wrong. It should be the device/system name. I have other smart things in my Lounge, so I've had to call the Linn Room "Living Room". If I'd called it Lounge I would be turning lights on when I wanted to listen to music!
In my case it shows the system name
Yes - the "system name" as shown in the cloud/web config, which is actually the Room name as shown in Konfig, Which is in Device settings, Konfusing but true!
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-27 09:42

If Linn now distinguishes between Room and System they should do that consequently. Hence show Room when the label says room or change the label to system across all apps.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-27 10:19

Has anyone on here managed to get the new SO to work?

‘troll

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by AsianWong » 2018-09-27 10:45

Moomintroll wrote:Has anyone on here managed to get the new SO to work?

‘troll
I had it working last night, but this morning it's not working.

Linn helpdesk got back to me on my query and were hopeless. They referred me to the LinnDocs document which I clearly stated didn't give me the guidance I required.
Looks like we're on our own for a while trying to figure things out...

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Dobie » 2018-09-27 11:41

Moomintroll wrote:Has anyone on here managed to get the new SO to work?

‘troll
Yes, Moomintroll,
I successfully completed an optimisation yesterday. You would have seen my floor plan in an earlier post. It took about 1-2 minutes to complete computation and on my modest system fronted by Majik 109’s I felt that the improvements were noticeable. The sound is just more musical and engaging which I think comes from a more tuneful bass line underpinning the music (what bass I get from the 109’s!)
Also improvement in stereo separation and stage depth were apparent. Also when switching back to Konfig based SO it showed that space was now no longer using that optimisation so something has changed (although it took some time for Konfig to update to that status).

However this morning I decided to “test” whether modifying the optimisation would work and each time I tried it, it failed and gave the error message that a few on here have reported, but it has not overwritten the previous optimisation so I still have the original working from the Linn account.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-27 11:46

Dobie wrote:
Moomintroll wrote:Has anyone on here managed to get the new SO to work?

‘troll
Yes, Moomintroll,
I successfully completed an optimisation yesterday. You would have seen my floor plan in an earlier post. It took about 1-2 minutes to complete computation and on my modest system fronted by Majik 109’s I felt that the improvements were noticeable. The sound is just more musical and engaging which I think comes from a more tuneful bass line underpinning the music (what bass I get from the 109’s!)
Also improvement in stereo separation and stage depth were apparent. Also when switching back to Konfig based SO it showed that space was now no longer using that optimisation so something has changed (although it took some time for Konfig to update to that status).

However this morning I decided to “test” whether modifying the optimisation would work and each time I tried it, it failed and gave the error message that a few on here have reported, but it has not overwritten the previous optimisation so I still have the original working from the Linn account.
Can you save the current optimization from Web in Konfig and modify it?

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-27 12:06

I suspect that Konfig fails because the new optimisation will contain variables that Konfig doesn’t recognise (ie the ones it doesn’t offer)

‘troll

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-27 12:38

Dobie wrote:
Moomintroll wrote:Has anyone on here managed to get the new SO to work?

‘troll
Yes, Moomintroll,
I successfully completed an optimisation yesterday. You would have seen my floor plan in an earlier post. It took about 1-2 minutes to complete computation and on my modest system fronted by Majik 109’s I felt that the improvements were noticeable. The sound is just more musical and engaging which I think comes from a more tuneful bass line underpinning the music (what bass I get from the 109’s!)
Also improvement in stereo separation and stage depth were apparent. Also when switching back to Konfig based SO it showed that space was now no longer using that optimisation so something has changed (although it took some time for Konfig to update to that status).

However this morning I decided to “test” whether modifying the optimisation would work and each time I tried it, it failed and gave the error message that a few on here have reported, but it has not overwritten the previous optimisation so I still have the original working from the Linn account.
Did you try "Create from system" in Konfig SO - after applying it from the cloud?
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Charly » 2018-09-27 13:24

Hi,

I tried the new Web SO with a test case begin of the week. Optimisation took 1-2 minutes and download into Klimax Renew was also no problem -- but "Create from System" within the Konfig on a Mac was not possible. Option was there but greyed out.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-27 13:54

Charly wrote:Hi,

I tried the new Web SO with a test case begin of the week. Optimisation took 1-2 minutes and download into Klimax Renew was also no problem -- but "Create from System" within the Konfig on a Mac was not possible. Option was there but greyed out.
That's disappointing. Even if it wasn't possible to edit it, it would be nice to at least see what modes the new algorithms create. As Donald said, a graphical representation would be extremely informative. Is there any information at all? Any idea of the frequencies and cuts that is generates?

If not, I guess they really are practicing what they preach. "Just Listen".
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Dobie » 2018-09-27 14:34

Moomintroll wrote:I suspect that Konfig fails because the new optimisation will contain variables that Konfig doesn’t recognise (ie the ones it doesn’t offer)

‘troll
Sorry I did not mean that Konfig failed. I just wanted to check whether Konfig had recognised that the optimisation had changed elsewhere (which it does). What failed was my subsequent attempts to alter or create a new optimisation in web based SO.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Dobie » 2018-09-27 14:37

timster wrote: Did you try "Create from system" in Konfig SO - after applying it from the cloud?
No, but I think another poster has answered your question.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-27 14:43

Dobie wrote:
Moomintroll wrote:I suspect that Konfig fails because the new optimisation will contain variables that Konfig doesn’t recognise (ie the ones it doesn’t offer)

‘troll
Sorry I did not mean that Konfig failed. I just wanted to check whether Konfig had recognised that the optimisation had changed elsewhere (which it does). What failed was my subsequent attempts to alter or create a new optimisation in web based SO.
Ah. I read it as you had tried to modify it it in Konfig and that that attempt had failed, not Konfig itself. The joys of language, eh?

‘troll

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by donuk » 2018-09-27 15:00

Seems to be up and running here now.
It is all a bit clunky, and sometimes things don't seem to work first time.
Something a bit wrong with putting in data for your walls. I had to keep going in and out of the app.
I did manage to create a new optimisation, and also import my old one.
It seems they are moving to do away with Konfig. I cannot yet find a way to graphically modify configurations.
Can still modify my old settings in Konfig but not the newly created ones.
Lots to play around with and understand the effects of.
What does seem good is that we will be able to set up and modify Space from a web browser only.

The sound - interesting. Reserve judgement, but some will love it I am sure. Certainly different.
I note the latest software is no longer Beta.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-27 15:21

Should we start a new thread purely to discuss the new SO, which appears to be called V2, as none of us here appear interested in Selekt?

I suppose the big question is “when is the Exakt version coming?” Will it be weeks or months?

‘troll

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Avalon » 2018-09-27 15:41

I heard that it should be out before the end of October, however I don’t think I would touch it for another 4 weeks after that.

It’s a disgrace that the calculations take so long and that it’s not running smoothly.

It’s a bit embarrassing that us Linn refugees are using Fredrik’s forum , hopefully he will allow it.

It’s certainly good press for him

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Linnjim » 2018-09-27 16:36

Has anyone managed to include toe-in for SO v2?
If i try then I get Failed instantly upon pressing calculate .... not that I've got past the Calculating phase yet even with no toe-in.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Peter@57m » 2018-09-27 18:19

I had a reply that my problem ticket (SO not calculating) was being looked into by Linn support. Thought I'd give it another go today and it works.
As stated you can go back to SO V1 profiles either using Konfig or the new web interface if you have loaded them in. You cannot Create from System a V2 profile in Konfig.

LinnJim - My new profile includes toe-in for the speakers

I have a sub and the SO V2 does not allow you to put this in, so must be an issue
The vanilla SO V2 was not great, moving the Optimisation Preference slider from Flatter Frequency Response towards Shorter Time Decay seems to improve thinngs.
Now its working for me, need more time to play and listen to what its doing, good or bad.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by phino » 2018-09-27 19:11

Working for me too now. Though I don't fancy taking everything apart and reverting to passive just to see how it sounds.
It does look as though they've comprehensively locked Paulssurround and his tweaks out - there's nothing you can adjust that isn't inherently part of your own room.
It is still infinitely adjustable so you can still spend an infinite amount of time tweaking, but there's no common tweak that can be universally applied (not that I can see at least).

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Macallan » 2018-09-27 20:28

To be fair I should say the new SO is now working for me as well (at least it worked eventually, after being stuck in 'updating' stage twice...). I have tried it only with a dummy room / position setting so far, so cannot judge the sonic benefits of the new model yet.

But I still find it disappointing that you cannot view or modify the resulting filters. This makes it a bit of a blind / "take it or leave it" experience. It takes away a lot of fun and satisfaction from the SO process I have to say. I have the feeling that Linn have moved away from open, transparent and accessible engineering approach (which I thought is the philosophy of Linn) to a more superficial and closed one. Not good.

I still have the hope that it will be possible to work with the new filters in Konfig some day.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-28 06:38

Macallan wrote:
I still have the hope that it will be possible to work with the new filters in Konfig some day.
I doubt it. If they have already locked v2 out of Konfig, once everything has gone to v2 (Exakt, subs, perhaps shelves) and the concept is proven, it will probably disappear altogether.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-28 07:39

Macallan wrote:To be fair I should say the new SO is now working for me as well (at least it worked eventually, after being stuck in 'updating' stage twice...). I have tried it only with a dummy room / position setting so far, so cannot judge the sonic benefits of the new model yet.

But I still find it disappointing that you cannot view or modify the resulting filters. This makes it a bit of a blind / "take it or leave it" experience. It takes away a lot of fun and satisfaction from the SO process I have to say. I have the feeling that Linn have moved away from open, transparent and accessible engineering approach (which I thought is the philosophy of Linn) to a more superficial and closed one. Not good.

I still have the hope that it will be possible to work with the new filters in Konfig some day.
I assume you can switch back to SO in Konfig, using your old filters (so no one way street for now, at least as long as a new Konfig version stops this)?

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by John R B » 2018-09-28 08:11

Jumanji wrote:
Macallan wrote:To be fair I should say the new SO is now working for me as well (at least it worked eventually, after being stuck in 'updating' stage twice...). I have tried it only with a dummy room / position setting so far, so cannot judge the sonic benefits of the new model yet.

But I still find it disappointing that you cannot view or modify the resulting filters. This makes it a bit of a blind / "take it or leave it" experience. It takes away a lot of fun and satisfaction from the SO process I have to say. I have the feeling that Linn have moved away from open, transparent and accessible engineering approach (which I thought is the philosophy of Linn) to a more superficial and closed one. Not good.

I still have the hope that it will be possible to work with the new filters in Konfig some day.
I assume you can switch back to SO in Konfig, using your old filters (so no one way street for now, at least as long as a new Konfig version stops this)?
Short answer is Yes. What I have found is that if I apply an optimisation from the Cloud and then start Konfig, Konfig shows details of the most recent Konfig-generated optimisation but also says "Main Room is not using this optimisation". It is then possible, in Konfig, to re-apply the last Konfig-generated optimisation or to load and apply previous Konfig-generated optimisations.

One thing I did try in Konfig was to click Save while a cloud-generated optimisation was in play, and then to export the saved optimisations to see if I could unpick the xml of the cloud optimisation. However, what Konfig appears to do under these circumstances is to re-save the most recent Konfig-generated optimisation rather than saving the cloud-generated optimisation.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Peter@57m » 2018-09-28 08:13

Jumanji wrote: I assume you can switch back to SO in Konfig, using your old filters (so no one way street for now, at least as long as a new Konfig version stops this)?
Yes you can load a SO V1 profile using Konfig.
You can also load the current profile to the cloud using the web interface. So I loaded my SO V1 profile that I was using. I can now use the web interface to load this V1 profile or a V2 profile.
________________
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-28 08:44

@John R B: the Save option in SO is related only to the current Konfig profile it is showing. It seems SO v2 is entirely invisible to Konfig. I don't know how they managed it, but apparently it somehow greys out the "Create from system" option when the system has a v2 optimisation applied. That may have been a change sneaked in to the latest Konfig update to 4.36. Does anyone still have 4.35? it may work with that one....
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