Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

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Jumanji
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-24 17:01

Music at Home wrote: In fact, this part really confuses things:

"Every source connected benefits from our best audio circuitry and the audio isolation provided by the Klimax machined-from-solid aluminium enclosure."
Why?

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Music at Home » 2018-09-24 17:06

"Our best audio circuitry ..." Mmmm, ok, if it's referring to the analogue input handling, fair enough.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by DelNaja » 2018-09-24 17:59

ThomasOK wrote:I can pretty much guarantee there are no more new products coming out from Linn in October.
I had hoped for more. The discontinuation of the DS'es is... disappointing.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Music Lover » 2018-09-24 19:32

Tendaberry wrote:
Music Lover wrote:
Denoontje wrote:just as I saw the box today on the XFI show

select basic
select with katalist
select with katalist and akurate 2200

all on a wilson benesch square 3

Demo was to show the differences between the models via tunedem.

NIce demo too short ;-)
Please elaborate.
And...non Linn speakers? Brand and model?
No idea that was a speaker, sorry
It's all about musical understanding!

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Music Lover » 2018-09-24 19:43

matthias wrote:Just arrived back from X-Fi in the Netherlands.
Linn were very busy and conducted permanently demos around 20 min, typical tune dem A-A-B, all filled up to the last place.
They showed the module with XLR and RCA outputs.
In the middle of this module is a small plastic box which contains the DAC, quasi a module inside the module, easily removable within seconds.
Selekt converts phono signals to digital.
A short demo of Klimax Sondek with Urika2 connected to Selekt sounded emotionlessly.
My impression:
The target audience for Selekt are B&O customers.
Maybe the reason that the B&O system in my car at he return trip was as enjoyable as Selekt:-)

Matt
"Klimax Sondek with Urika2 connected to Selekt sounded emotionlessly" - I have same impression every time it's connected to a digital pre-amp. To Sagatun however, heaven.

"the B&O system in my car at he return trip was as enjoyable as Selekt" - really that bad? Same performance on both LP12 and streaming?
It's all about musical understanding!

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Denoontje » 2018-09-24 19:51

No idea that was a speaker, sorry

see http://wilson-benesch.com/square-series-ii/

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Denoontje » 2018-09-24 19:52

Music Lover wrote:
matthias wrote:Just arrived back from X-Fi in the Netherlands.
Linn were very busy and conducted permanently demos around 20 min, typical tune dem A-A-B, all filled up to the last place.
They showed the module with XLR and RCA outputs.
In the middle of this module is a small plastic box which contains the DAC, quasi a module inside the module, easily removable within seconds.
Selekt converts phono signals to digital.
A short demo of Klimax Sondek with Urika2 connected to Selekt sounded emotionlessly.
My impression:
The target audience for Selekt are B&O customers.
Maybe the reason that the B&O system in my car at he return trip was as enjoyable as Selekt:-)

Matt
"Klimax Sondek with Urika2 connected to Selekt sounded emotionlessly" - I have same impression every time it's connected to a digital pre-amp. To Sagatun however, heaven.

"the B&O system in my car at he return trip was as enjoyable as Selekt" - really that bad? Same performance on both LP12 and streaming?

Me and other agreed the sound was very good.
One remark though the Wilson Benesch Square needs normally placed closer to a wall.

So let's say: it's taste

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by matthias » 2018-09-24 19:54

timster wrote:
matthias wrote:
timster wrote:On second reading. There was a lot on DSD support, which seems very important in the US market. I wonder if Gilad mentioned that it's only supported on the Katalyst version? And that it's not compatible with SO? Or, and this would be quite important, does the new SO get around that?
AFAIK, DSD support only with Katalyst and SO works only in the PCM domain.
Exaktly. Neither was mentioned in the positive feedback report.
From the release notes of Davaar 60 it was clear that Katalyst only does support DSD.
The hardware of Katalyst can support up to DSD512.
So the mentioned DSD256 by Gilad seems reasonable.

Matt
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by matthias » 2018-09-24 20:05

Music Lover wrote: "the B&O system in my car at he return trip was as enjoyable as Selekt" - really that bad? Same performance on both LP12 and streaming?
At least with the speakers on demo, maybe Selekt with 3677s would be worth a try.
Streaming sounded much better than the LP12 into Selekt.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Blomman » 2018-09-24 20:41

ThomasOK wrote:I'm going to try to answer the questions created by these announcements, although I won't quote all the questions.
Let me know if I missed anything.
Donald wrote:Thanks ThomasOK - very informative.

A couple of additional questions: -

1. The Bridged Class-D amplifier with post-filter feedback - is Class-D the future direction of travel for all Linn power amplifiers?

2. Power supply - one of the What Hi-Fi pages has a picture of a Selekt with the cover off. What's that lurking behind the IEC socket - a new power supply?? Whither Dynamik??

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/linn-selekt-dsm
1. Good question. Linn has stated that their Class-D amp design achieves "lower distortion and noise than our existing Chakra amps". I recall similar verbiage being used to describe the DVC and hence the discontinuation of Linn analog preamps. It certainly would complete the all digital, all the time path they seem to be on.

2. I would expect that the power supply is a Dynamik design. The Dynamik isn't a power supply but a group of power supplies all based on the same design but with differences depending on what it has to drive. Linn has, in the past, also done designs where the SMPS and the main board are all one piece, the Pekin is one example.
matthias wrote:Thanks Thomas,
according to Dagogo Linn demoed the Selekt vs. a Naim Uniti Star, quite an unfair comparison.
Even the better Uniti Nova is much cheaper than the Selekt.
Matt
According to What Hi-Fi Linn demoed against the Naim Uniti Nova. The owner here, who was at the US rollout, confirmed that. The Uniti Nova sells for $6995 in the US and the Selekt DSM is $5200 base and $7000 with Katalyst. I was told that the first comparison was with the base Selekt DSM vs. the Uniti so I'd say that it was more than fair.
Rudi64 wrote:Anyone knows its possible to upgrade the "old" Majik Exaktbox I to Katalyst or do you
have to buy the Akurate Exaktbox I to make that step in the future?
This hasn't been clearly stated but I would certainly hope that all Exaktbox-I units will be subject to the upgrade, it really wouldn't make sense any other way.

While on the subject of upgrades, Linn has said that the Katalyst upgrades for the KDS and ADS will remain available "at this time" and they are on the new price list. So mbabst, you can still do the Katalyst upgrades, no price change. I, too, find it somewhat surprising in the light of the move away from source pieces to streamer/preamp combos, that Linn would make the upgrade from DS to DSM unavailable - especially just before this announcement. You would think they would want to incentivize their customers to move in that direction.
timster wrote:Does anyone know when the Selekt is coming to market? With Pins being a selling point, and with hardware buttons, Davaar 64 and Kazoo will need releasing first wouldn't they?
Selekt DSM units are supposed to start shipping to dealers September 24th. So the new software versions coming on the 25th are right on time for everything to work together. Again, I don't know for sure how the distribution of the new SO software is going to be handled, I just noticed the mention of getting it from the dealer portal. It could be nothing more than giving the dealers access to it first so they have an idea as to what is going on when customers start calling. So I wouldn't read too much into that wording. Linn does view SO as a major competitive advantage for Linn and is putting much R&D into improving it. I believe the fact that new SO is coming out before new SO+ reflects Linn's desire to attract "New to Linn" customers by selling them compelling streamer/preamp (and possibly power amp) combos that work with whatever components they already have, particularly speakers. This was indicated by Linn using B&W and Wilson speakers for the demo. "We will take whatever speaker you like and make it sound better." is the takeaway I get.
Music Lover wrote:A lot of raving about the modularity in this thread.
Only me that don't like that?

With modules, a lot of connections and drop of performance.
However, I understand it make sense in an "all-in-all" product adding flexibility.
Linn did say that they spent a lot of time making sure that the connections don't mess up the sound. They also, of course, mention that it is all with digital signals so presumably lossless. YMMV.
timster wrote:
Matteo wrote:https://www.linn.co.uk/speakers-and-amp ... exaktbox-i

The Linn website still has the image of Majik Exaktbox-I
And 'No' next to Katalyst. Guess the name change comes first, the box after. Konfused?
I'm pretty sure name change and new box come at the same time - I have seen a photo of the Akurate Exaktbox-I, it's just not up on the Linn site yet. As stated before, Katalyst will come sometime in 2019.

I think that about covers it for now.
Hmm, I have a Majik Exaktbox-I, can I be able to Katalyst it or not, im confused :)

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by sunbeamgls » 2018-09-24 22:32

The System Hub thing. Its confused even on the Linn website.
From the main menu, systems hubs are not listed as network players. But DSM network players are described as the heart of the system
Only by going to systems do system hubs appear, but they're also referred to there as network players.

Hmmm. The source is in the network player's beating hub?
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Wolfie » 2018-09-24 22:48

I do think it’s a shame the DSs are going. I’d have thought it worthwhile to maybe just keep the KDS going as a flagship, no compromise digital source, even if Majik and Akurate versions are to go.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Gussy » 2018-09-25 07:01

Linn has to make a profit - it could simply be that the DS range wasn’t selling well enough...

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-25 07:32

matthias wrote:
matthias wrote:
timster wrote:On second reading. There was a lot on DSD support, which seems very important in the US market. I wonder if Gilad mentioned that it's only supported on the Katalyst version? And that it's not compatible with SO? Or, and this would be quite important, does the new SO get around that?
AFAIK, DSD support only with Katalyst and SO works only in the PCM domain.
From the release notes of Davaar 60 it was clear that Katalyst only does support DSD.
The hardware of Katalyst can support up to DSD512.
So the mentioned DSD256 by Gilad seems reasonable.

Matt
Yes. As long as they make it clear to the dealer network and hence to potential customers that DSD cannot be played on non-Katalyst systems, and they will lose out on Space Optimisation. The "positive feedback" writer had no clue about that from the article, nor did Gilad tell him. Or if he did, he failed to mention it:
Later, Gilad sent me a message say that both Single (DSD64) and Double (DSD128) DSD would be supported—I assume in native mode, without any conversion to PCM. Quad DSD will follow:

"To clarify on DSD, we will have 64 and 128 at launch. Aiming for 256 in the future."

This is quite reassuring to those of us who have massive libraries of DSD audio files. Terabytes, in my case.
He then went on to talk about Katalyst, and SO. Anyone reading that who doesn't know will be misled. IMO.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-25 13:16

Wasn’t it today that the new SO should be available ?

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-09-25 13:29

Blomman wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:
Rudi64 wrote:Anyone knows its possible to upgrade the "old" Majik Exaktbox I to Katalyst or do you
have to buy the Akurate Exaktbox I to make that step in the future?
This hasn't been clearly stated but I would certainly hope that all Exaktbox-I units will be subject to the upgrade, it really wouldn't make sense any other way.

Hmm, I have a Majik Exaktbox-I, can I be able to Katalyst it or not, im confused :)
I think you missed the above question and answer. It should be physically possible but Linn hasn’t directly answered this. I expect they aren’t planning to address this question until close to when the Katalyst version comes out sometime next year. But as suggested elsewhere you can try the Linn helpline since they no longer have a working forum.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-25 14:39

Jumanji wrote:Wasn’t it today that the new SO should be available ?
Nope. That will come later, it hasn't even been in Beta. Davaar 64 Pins should be today though.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by sunbeamgls » 2018-09-25 16:42

Just spoke to a Linn dealer who said there was a new Konfig today, for non-Exakt systems at least.

I also understand that the new SO will be take it or leave it - not sure if the outcomes are adjustable, but there won't be any custom filters.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Spannko » 2018-09-25 17:00

sunbeamgls wrote:Just spoke to a Linn dealer who said there was a new Konfig today, for non-Exakt systems at least.

I also understand that the new SO will be take it or leave it - not sure if the outcomes are adjustable, but there won't be any custom filters.
No custom filters?

Interesting, and probably to stop people using SO as a graphic equaliser.

But, what if someone lives in a space which in no way resembles a regular cuboid, yet still has a dominant room mode (or two). SO won’t be able to calculate the frequency of the mode, but an installer could have a good guess after a site inspection and work it out with a tape measure and calculator.


I remember an example on the forum where the room was essentially a quadrant with a constant height ceiling. An installer could measure the ceiling height and calculate the mode very easily.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-25 18:34

You might find this link interesting ;-)

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/images/8/82 ... sation.pdf

J.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by sunbeamgls » 2018-09-25 19:14

Jumanji wrote:You might find this link interesting ;-)

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/images/8/82 ... sation.pdf

J.
Excellent, thanks Jumanji

There's a lot to take in there, and setting up SO is now a very much more complicated procedure. I hope it works!

I can see it being very difficult to use SO at the Wam show now, unless I set up in the room a couple of days in advance!
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Matteo » 2018-09-25 20:07

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-25 20:20

Jumanji wrote:You might find this link interesting ;-)

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/images/8/82 ... sation.pdf

J.
It looks very comprehensive, looking forward to the Exakt version. I imagine it will reduce Paulsurround’s air miles somewhat.

‘troll

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-25 20:25

It seems though there is no graphical representation of the modes, actually one may not even know what the mode frequencies are. I guess they were fed up with all the discussions about fiddling with them...
So it seems to be a black box approach, not sure I like that.

I did change the name of my living room to my system as suggested to separate rooms from system. As a result Kazoo will no longer work as it insists on waiting for living room ;-) while Lumin immediately adjusted...
Well, well...

J.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Charly » 2018-09-25 20:36

Played a bit with the new web based Space Option with my non Exakt system.

Looks promising, especially the option for non regular rooms and the option to focus on decay times vs non flat response (one-note bass). Both is highly welcome due to my rooms and their issues.

BUT the new Web Konfig does not provide any customer filters and no option to view, save or even change the generated filters. It is a black box. You even cannot save the new filters from your system within the old Konfig SW - Web Only!!

I really, really hope this will change asap and it is only a temporary solution. Latest with my Exakt System i need custom filters and the option to drop or adjust calculated filters (due to my horrible main room layout). Without these options the new Web Konfig will be useless.

PS: a big thanks to the forum to give a home to all the homeless Linn forum users. I don't understand LINN's behaviour related to their forum.
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