Linn forum down?

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by DavidHB » 2018-09-23 12:19

timster wrote:
Peter@57m wrote:I would also like to add my thanks to Fredrik for hosting Linn waifs and strays.
+1. From a newbie. But - now I'm here I'll most likely stay. Even if/when Linn get it together.
So win-win all round I'd say ;)
+1 from me too (previously a lurking rather than a posting member). And +1 also on donuk's comments about the length of time the forum is down. It seems to suggest a degree of nervousness (or paranoia?) at Linn HQ which of course is carefully excised from all their confident public pronouncements. The nervousness is understandable, but that does not make the lengthy forum closure any less of a mistake, IMO.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Wolfie » 2018-09-23 14:04

timster wrote:
Peter@57m wrote:I would also like to add my thanks to Fredrik for hosting Linn waifs and strays.

Peter
+1. From a newbie. But - now I'm here I'll most likely stay. Even if/when Linn get it together.
So win-win all round I'd say ;)
It's an excellent forum, is this! I joined over ten years ago - I'm more a lurker than a poster, but enjoy what I read.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Macallan » 2018-09-23 21:00

I've been thinking why Linn have been so drastic with respect to the forum closure. The announcement of Selekt may have played a role, but this does not explain it IMO. They have successfully introduced so many new products without any issues, and the forum has significantly contributed to the excitement and the technical explanation of the new products. Why do we have to discuss the new Selekt here and not on the Linn Forum where the discussion belongs? (by the way thanks a lot to Lejonklou for hosting this discussion.)

I think there must be something else, a particular development on the Linn Forum they do not like, or that the dealers complained about. What could it be?

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by fschmeis » 2018-09-23 21:21

my perception: LINN doesn't really value the LINN forum members as we only represent a very small portion of their revenue => LINN is more than before focusing on their dealers to sell (new) equipment; Gilad wasn't present at the LINN forum for many years, there is no s/h section on the LINN forum, ...

compared to the amount Frederik is contributing on this forum or how the CEO and CTO of Roon are interacting with their customer base: very different!

the reasons for the forum downtime given by Gilad are ridiculous to my opinion:
  • "we want to avoid spoiling the launch for customers through early disclosure and discussion on the Forum" - there are already several articles about DSM Selekt out there in the internet?!?!? So the press is allowed to disclose these news, but not the LINN customer base?
  • " In the meantime, we’re using this opportunity to review the purpose of the Forum and our approach to moderating it." - why to shut down a forum just to review the purpose?!?!?!?
at the bottom line (and I am going to repeat myself): LINN doesn't really value the LINN forum members - it's really a pity ...

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by David Neel » 2018-09-23 22:25

I've largely lost interest in Linn. This statement surprises me a little, since less than a year ago I had a completely Linn system (only the sources now remain). I first bought an LP12 over 40 years ago. A few years later I bought my first Naim amplifiers, then a few years after that I started using Linn speakers. Finally, much later, Linn electronics replaced the Naim kit. But, as others have noted, enthusiasts like us are no longer Linn's sole focus. That is their prerogative, to broaden their market aims and to seek new customers. In a way, it's a bit like Porsche upsetting the 911 fanatics when they introduced an SUV. (Or to go back further, maybe like Dylan going electric!) Porsche's SUV made a lot of money and provided funds for redevelopment of the sports cars. Let's hope Linn follows this example, and stays financially successful so that LP12 development continues.

My diminishing interest also extends to the forum, as over the last few years the self-publicising dealer(s) and their acolytes who tended to be too prominent have been joined by third-party traders hawking their LP12 "upgrades", leading to some nasty behaviours. At a time when moderation and direction by Linn could have stopped this, they were asleep at the wheel.

I'm sad about this, because Linn used to invite forum members to factory events (I've been to three) and because of the forum I've made friends with some like-minded people.
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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2018-09-24 08:57

I hope linn's loss is Lejonklou's gain. If Fredrik had treat his forum members like that he'd have had a hard time getting the good feeling back, such is the size of his user base compared to linn. I think they're being arrogant and extremely short-sighted. Never piss off the little guy, it could bite you on the arse.
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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by donuk » 2018-09-24 09:42

Who knows what Linn is trying to do?
Their forum was very useful for Newby support. But the same few characters seem to dominate the replies - either repeating answers you may give, or calling yours rubbish.
I have looked at a number of forums over the years, and have concluded that many contributors are lonely people who are desperate to have a voice somewhere (not on this forum of course).
The Linn forum had got rather impolite and intolerant of different ideas.
The old maxim "if you can't prove it by conventional science, you must be wrong" is ever present.
The Pinkfish forum is just the same - how often does a good topic start up there only to degenerate into personal abuse? There is enough nastiness in the world; I do not wish to fight it in my hobby hours.

Personally I don't mind how extraordinary tweaks and suggestions may be - I even found Peter Belt a curiosity and treated him with respect.
I think both forum owners and contributors forget that most of us are not professional writers and do it, in theory, only for enjoyment to embellish our hifi hobby.
This forum is generally very friendly and I come and go from it. As I have stated elsewhere the only issue I have with with the sanctity of tunedem. But each to his own. Nobody who has gone to the trouble of buying a hifi component should ever be called wrong by another customer, and less still by its manufacturer.

To digress, I heard the most amazing soundstage last week. I went to hear a concert at La Scala, Milan. The acoustics there are absolutely incredible. I could hear every string, triangle, drum stroke in such a musical way. I think the presence of boxes along both sides must help reduce reflections. It was beautiful....

All the above just my opinion of course.

Donuk sunny downtown York
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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Gussy » 2018-09-24 10:16

donuk wrote:Who knows what Linn is trying to do?
Their forum was very useful for Newby support. But the same few characters seem to dominate the replies - either repeating answers you may give, or calling yours rubbish.
I have looked at a number of forums over the years, and have concluded that many contributors are lonely people who are desperate to have a voice somewhere (not on this forum of course).
The Linn forum had got rather impolite and intolerant of different ideas.
The old maxim "if you can't prove it by conventional science, you must be wrong" is ever present.
The Pinkfish forum is just the same - how often does a good topic start up there only to degenerate into personal abuse? There is enough nastiness in the world; I do not wish to fight it in my hobby hours.

Personally I don't mind how extraordinary tweaks and suggestions may be - I even found Peter Belt a curiosity and treated him with respect.
I think both forum owners and contributors forget that most of us are not professional writers and do it, in theory, only for enjoyment to embellish our hifi hobby.
This forum is generally very friendly and I come and go from it. As I have stated elsewhere the only issue I have with with the sanctity of tunedem. But each to his own. Nobody who has gone to the trouble of buying a hifi component should ever be called wrong by another customer, and less still by its manufacturer.

All the above just my opinion of course.

Donuk sunny downtown York

Excellent post, donuk - I reckon that’s just about the long and short of it.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by donuk » 2018-09-24 11:10

The above from Gussy is an example of gentlemanly agreement which you won't easily find elsewhere...

Donuk, smug downtown York.
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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by hcl » 2018-09-24 19:00

All people are narrow minded, when their believes are challenged.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by ropedrag » 2018-09-25 05:44

I'm holding out hope that the "Groundbreaking" announcement is still coming our way. A new streamer while cool is a bit of a disappointment when compared to "groundbreaking". And while part of me wants to get wound up about the forum being down I'm chilling out until the smoke clears and then asses. I will say that without doubt my system would not sound as good as it does had it not been for the support I've found on the forum.... shoutout to Paul and others!

A few posts in this thread allude to how we all, for the most part, have networking figured out, and forum support is no big deal, or at least how I took the remarks. However I'll submit that with a software driven platform with frequent updates and (if desired) user defined settings and tweaks with equalization a good number of us need help. Until I myself got help on the forums and directly from folks on the forum I used to listen to my system and actually wonder if it, on it's own, could sound better by adjustments in the digital domain. Turns out the answer was a big fat yes! Was my dealer or Linn going to get me to where it now is? The answer was a big fat No!

I also can't help but to think maybe a few dealers and possibly Linn themselves took exception to the fact that folks not being dealers or Linn employees are taking exakt space optimization tuning beyond and in some cases far beyond what the average owner can expect to get from their new expensive hifi when set up by their dealer. I'd imagine that a percentage of potential buyers would have a good look at the form before raiding their bank account. I certainly do this before a new vehicle purchase, and to be honest I've passed on a few makes/models after researching the forums, then again my current ride was bought with confidence using this approach as well.

All in all I'm disappointed in Linn for this move but I'll give them the benefit of doubt until we know more.

And a shoutout to Lejonklou for giving us a safe harbor... thank you!

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by AsianWong » 2018-09-25 07:24

The 25th is now upon us, the Linn fourm is not going up anytime soon.
I'm really look forward to this "new" SO and sharing our thoughts.
Thank you Fredrick for hosting us displaced Linn DSer's or should that be DSMer's ;)

Linn are really missing a trick here with getting feedback on the new SO, or at least an opportunity to provide support.

p.s. I'm Little_wong, now AsianWong having moved to Singapore where I think Linn support could be non existent, as the sole dealer here has yet to respond to me.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-25 07:41

AsianWong wrote: Linn are really missing a trick here with getting feedback on the new SO, or at least an opportunity to provide support.
We have to assume that Linn wish us to use the Helpdesk instead of the Forum. Feel free to email them with questions.

helpline@linn.co.uk

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by cortina » 2018-09-25 09:09

What IF and that is really the biggest of IFs but I would really like to see it happen:

What IF Linn have finally realized that the simplification by marketing that apart from the source not being in the speaker but also that nothing before the DS can have any impact whatsoever AND that there is no risk at all that a customer (paying a lot of money to Linn so in that sense they were happy) using SO in a tiny wrong way would actually end up worse than not using it at all. They marketed SO as the wholy grail (almost) while it is really a two-sided compromise.

I think this narrow-minded marketing simplification which initially was frequently supported on the forum by some of the Linn staff (a 1 is a 1 etc) has created an atmosphere FAR from the old Linn philosphy.

So, IF Linn would like to go back more closely to its roots also when it comes to the forum, it would need a fresh start. (But would cause some anger along previous posters if all or most is deleted and would mean that Linn would back from a lot of the past years tech-talk, so unfortunately I do not see it coming. Even less so when they stop the Klimax DS.
But if not, that forum will continue to be just one of many - quick scan now and then but no more (but with a feeling of ”if only they would have...) It will continue to be a forum for tech help and for the tech-talk followers.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by DavidHB » 2018-09-25 12:19

AsianWong wrote:The 25th is now upon us, the Linn forum is not going up anytime soon.
The notice on the closed forum says that it will remain closed until mid-October. Only Linn know why the closure needs to be that long, or indeed why it was necessary at all.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by AsianWong » 2018-09-25 14:01

DavidHB wrote: The notice on the closed forum says that it will remain closed until mid-October. Only Linn know why the closure needs to be that long, or indeed why it was necessary at all.

David
I was actually referring to the SO updates that ThomasOK mentioned in the Selekt thread that were due to be released today.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Wolfie » 2018-09-25 14:33

AsianWong wrote:
DavidHB wrote: The notice on the closed forum says that it will remain closed until mid-October. Only Linn know why the closure needs to be that long, or indeed why it was necessary at all.

David
I was actually referring to the SO updates that ThomasOK mentioned in the Selekt thread that were due to be released today.
I was wondering if those would appear too. New Konfig and Davaar betas today but only for minor fixes. No mention of SO yet...

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by timster » 2018-09-25 14:37

I think the SO change to the cloud is a major reworking, and not connected to the release to market of the Selekt. Pins, however, are. And they are still in Beta. The 25th that release of new software that Thomas was referring to was Davaar 64 and related Kazoo.
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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Peter@57m » 2018-09-25 18:26

Davaar 4.64.238 is now production and includes Pins.
Konfig 4.36.109 is now production and may include new SO. I haven't loaded this up yet as sunbeamgls has posted that the new SO doesn't have custom filters, so a bit reluctant right now to update.

Has anybody else updated to the new Konfig - does it have the new SO?

Konfig 109 doc states:

Support for Selekt DSM
Moved 'Participate in beta' for devices into Advanced tab and changed to be per device
Provide feedback for Urika II configuration if DS/DSM firmware does not support Exakt sources
Auto save a snapshot of edited optimisation document if device disappears while there are unsaved changes
Moved Phono devices into a new Phono tab
Restore button is now always available for Exaktboxes and Exakt Speakers
Various stability fixes

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Peter@57m » 2018-09-25 19:41

BB1 wrote:iOS Kazoo 4.13.15, which supports Pins, has been officially released today (18 hours ago). A few hours later iOS Kazoo beta 4.13.18 has become available, fixing "a bug which could cause the DS to select wrong source when playing a pin"…

I’ve installed Konfig 4.36.109 today and as expected It doesn’t include the new SO for my system, as it is scheduled for a later date for Exakt systems. According to my information Konfig should still give you the choice between the "old" and "new" SO, even if it does support the new one on non-exakt systems now.

Interesting fact: As always, the Davaar beta releases available here has been deleted, but Davaar 64 is still missing under „Releases“. If this isn’t just a temporarily glitch, there is still a way to archive the current official Davaar release in case someone prefers an older official release over any future one due to bugs, SQ or any other reason.

On MacOS the latest downloaded Davaar firmware package is stored at „Library/Konfig/Cache“. It’s naming convention has changed from e.g. „AkuruteExaktDSM_4.63..223.zip“ to „Fw901_4.64.238.zip“. The firmware number seems to represent the PCAS number of the mainboard of the DS. E.g. Konfig shows me in its DS tab „PCAS901L2R1“ under „Board Information“.
The new SO is only available online and not in Konfig, its in your Linn account which you probably setup through Kazoo - App Settings - Linn Account
Davaar 64 is available under Releases but named as you point out as Fwnnn_4.64.238.zip. Thanks for the tip about the naming I hadn't spotted that and went through a more laborious process to work out the naming for my 3 systems :-)

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by Spannko » 2018-09-27 10:41

Another gem from a forum giving a home to the displaced Linnies

“I thought this was a HiFi forum. The sooner the Linn Forum is back up and running the better so I can get back to chatting with sensible people” lol

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by DoomHammer » 2018-09-27 11:11

I understand locking down Forum for write access if Linn wanted to silence the gossip machine. But turning it off entirely with all the knowledge regarding troubleshooting, component choice, and other information that weren't available anywhere else is a pity.

Fortunately, there's still this, though it's far from pleasant experience: http://web.archive.org/web/201808030043 ... .co.uk/bb/

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by phino » 2018-09-28 18:33

I don't know if it's significant or not but today Linn have commented out the link to the Linn Forums on their "Advanced Installation" page in LinnDocs.
http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php?t ... ldid=13740
They didn't delete it at least, but it does make you wonder...

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by fredrik » 2018-10-01 17:16

Saw on the archived page that Linn forum have 26,294 registered members. That is a sizable amount of customer base to turn off. Maybe the forum moderator is on extended vacation? I guess there are a lot of spammers taking time to moderate apart from the regulars.

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Re: Linn forum down?

Post by phino » 2018-10-01 20:51

fredrik wrote:Saw on the archived page that Linn forum have 26,294 registered members. That is a sizable amount of customer base to turn off. Maybe the forum moderator is on extended vacation? I guess there are a lot of spammers taking time to moderate apart from the regulars.
Yes, but how many of those accounts are active? It's the same here, there is no way for a user to delete their account, they have to ask an administrator to do it for them*. Even if you could delete your account, I suspect most wouldn't bother, they'd just never log on again.
26,294 sounds a bit on the low side - I did occasionally look at the number when it was live but wasn't interested enough to now be able to remember what it was!

* Is it actually allowed since GDPR to have an account with something like this which you cannot delete for yourself?

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