Tramp 2 vs no base

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

Moderator: Staff

Post Reply
Mikeg
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-04-09 19:17

Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Mikeg »

On the Linn forum there is currently a discussion on the benefits of no base vs the Tramp 2. I just wondered if anyone here had done the comparison using TuneDem?

I have a Tramp 2 on a Mana wallshelf but with TP Vulkan boards rather than Mana glass. Years ago I had it without the hardboard base which was better than with it in place. Since then I have progressively added Kore, Lingo 4 and the Tramp 2 and in that guise it sounds better with board rather than glass.

I know I could just remove the tramp 2 and make the comparison myself but to do it right I would also need to re-level the shelf and ensure the deck was still setup correctly. So before doing that I was hoping someone here might have already tried it so as to give me an idea whether it was worth the hassle

Thanks

Mike
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by lejonklou »

With Trampolin removed, what are kind of feet are the advocates using? Original rubber feet screwed into each corner?
Mikeg
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-04-09 19:17

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Mikeg »

I have got a set of the original feet but if other types would work better then I would give them a go
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by lejonklou »

Ok, if that is what they're using, I've tried it. My thoughts are:

1. The LP12 doesn't sound right without a bottom board. It's less musical and a bit hollow, as if the structure has become less rigid. Which in practice, it has.

2. Whether the solid bottom or Trampolin works best depends on the support. With most solid furniture, Trampolin is clearly better. But with very light, thin or resonant shelves below the LP12, the suspension of Trampolin feet becomes upset and the stiffer solid baseboard is a better choice.

3. If the LP12 has the Radikal problem, where the motor housing of Radikal is pressing against the rim of a Trampolin foot as described here: http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4147, then I'm quite certain that removing the Trampolin will be an improvement. But it's the wrong fix for the problem. Add wooden strips between plinth and Trampolin instead! Then compare that with no Trampolin installed.
Mikeg
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-04-09 19:17

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Mikeg »

Sorry, I misread your initial response as applying to me rather than the poster's on the Linn forum. They didn't mention the feet they are using although in the past small 'bumpy' 3m feet were recommended with Mana.

I have been using the thicker (15mm) Vulkan board so after your comments I think I will stick with the Tramp 2 and not mess with anything. I do have a tendency to try some of the various forum suggestions only to revert back to the way it was originally setup

Thanks
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by ThomasOK »

I have not tried Trampolin 2 vs. no bottom at all. But the big complaint about the T2 appears to be the wobbly feet (which aren't at all wobbly). I did try my LP12 with the Trampolin 2 with and without the Trampolin feet a few years ago. You can put the standard Linn rubber feet in the corners with a Trampolin. Then it is just a matter of unscrewing the Trampolin feet to have the LP12 sit on the regular feet. Thread the Trampolin feet back on and you are back to using the T2 the way it was intended. I tried it with a Target wall shelf and found it definitely more tuneful and musical with the Trampolin feet. I duplicated it some time later with an Archidee floor stand and came to the same conclusion.

I do feel that the Trampolin 2/Urika is a musical improvement on any solid surface, no matter how light the stand/shelf, as long as the Radikal/Trampolin foot problem has been investigated and attended to if necessary. On a more springy surface, like an IKEA Lack, especially if the bottom part has been removed, there could be a problem with the double springiness. I have also heard a number of people say that the Trampolin does not work well with the Mana shelf/stand with the glass shelf but I have no personal experience of this.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 617
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Hermann »

Well, started some 40 years ago with a self constucted table for my first LP12 (see images). It was solit with spike up and down and was the best at that time for the Lp12. Someone came up with Ikea Lack but it was never my cup of tea. Later I found Mana and since then never searched for any other support.

Use it without baseboard from the very first beginning and never used it again. Tests where done with Audiotech and others. But non the them worked for me. Tried trampolin a couple of time and found the sound somehow dull.

Since then every LP12 I owned were on that Mana reference table with the little 3M damper.

A couple of month ago the mot of my TT died. Needed a new one and moved the LP12 to a dealer. I also took the Mana Ref table to try a new fully loaded LP12 on it. All I can say it was what I expected, no difference between the dealers table and the Mana ref table on a big Linn System. Ofcource we listen to his LP12 before we moved it to the Mana table. My wife had to grin and told me later, there wasnt any difference after moving it. It means trampolin was not on my list.

We came across to install new Lingo, Kore and Kandid. My Troika was really to old.
As my LP12 was ready, we used his cupboard for my "rebuild" LP12 without baseboard and with those 3m damper as feets. All I can say was, it sounded better to my ears then his LP12 with tampolin.

I should mention, all my staff is on Mana.

Hermann

(sorry for my bad english, its no my native language :-) )
20180907_165527-3.jpg
20180907_165400-3.jpg
20180907_165606-3.jpg
Trust your ears
User avatar
Tony Tune-age
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1579
Joined: 2009-12-19 19:07
Location: United States

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Tony Tune-age »

This is a very interesting topic, but I've never heard a comparison personally. Maybe eventually I'll be in the right place at the right time for a proper listen.

Cheers
Tony Tune-age
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 617
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Hermann »

I will ask my dealer as far as he come over upgrading my LP12 for a trampolin to test it at home.
Trust your ears
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 617
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Hermann »

The upgrades for my LP12 has been installed on Friday last week. We tried aTrampolin2 but right from the start it was a nogo. Even the dealer said it does not work. Music became somehow dull.

I'll keep my 3M dumper which works best to me.
Trust your ears
u252agz
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 786
Joined: 2013-10-03 12:44
Location: UK

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by u252agz »

I have a Radikal with standard baseboard which sits on a solid wooden unit on a carpeted concrete floor.

Trampolin 2 should be better - but I am nervous regarding the modification and cannot be taking it backwards and forwards 150 Miles if there is a problem, either immediately or later.

Am I being a coward and losing out significantly ?
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e

Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by tokenbrit »

u252agz wrote:I have a Radikal with standard baseboard which sits on a solid wooden unit on a carpeted concrete floor.

Trampolin 2 should be better - but I am nervous regarding the modification and cannot be taking it backwards and forwards 150 Miles if there is a problem, either immediately or later.

Am I being a coward and losing out significantly ?
I'd say yes, but that's primarily because Thomas is 650+ miles from here so 150 miles is 'just around the corner' ;)
I believe that solid (heavy?) support is typically one of the surfaces on which a Trampolin 2 works best, but will defer to those here with better knowledge &/or experience... Btw, did you see this from Fredrik?
.. my impression is that rigid wall shelves or very stable and heavy furniture with Trampolin/2 produces the best possible sound, but I have friends that still use Ikea Lack and Solid baseboard and those LP12's sound great too.
So maybe you're missing out a bit, but not too much. Have you discussed with your trusted, relatively-nearby dealer to see what they think, suggest, and whether it's worth the round-trip?
u252agz
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 786
Joined: 2013-10-03 12:44
Location: UK

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by u252agz »

Thanks for that,

I was only going to consider it as part of an Ekos se or Keel upgrade and the information about Fredriks
Friends does suggest that if my cowardly instincts hold sway, then at least I will not be missing out too much.

650 Miles is some commitment - but for an LP12 absolutely worth it. I drive past quite a few Linn dealers to get to where I think is the best.
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e

Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
User avatar
Matteo
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 913
Joined: 2018-01-25 14:12
Location: Milano, Italia

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Matteo »

According to the Linn website:

The Solid Base provides a fixed, rigid platform for your deck and comes as standard on our introductory level Majik LP12 turntable.

If your turntable is placed on a cabinet or shelf that provides its own isolation from vibrations, then this is the perfect base board for you. Alternatively, choose the Trampolin base board to benefit from the integrated vibration isolation this provides to the LP12.

Manufactured from high quality aluminium and fixed directly to the wooden plinth of the turntable, the Solid Base can be specified on all new Sondek LP12 turntables and can also be used to upgrade your existing Sondek LP12 if it has an older non-aluminium base
.

https://www.linn.co.uk/sources/turntabl ... solid-base
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 617
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Hermann »

@u252agz

The dealer mentioned, if the LP12 sit on a good decoupled Surface i.e. in my case a couple of Mana and that rest on a ground of hard stone then no Trampolin. Anything else should be tried and in most cases it'll work.
Trust your ears
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by ThomasOK »

I haven’t played with Mana shelving and only heard it once at a dealer friend of mine. However, I have noticed that pretty much everyone on the various forums who use Mana with the normal glass shelf has found the Trampolin not to work well with it. There does seem to be an incompatibility between them so I’m not surprised by your findings.

I have found Trampolin 2 to be an improvement on lightweight rigid stands such as Archidee, Audiotech and NOKTable as well as various wall shelves and the MimerK top shelf and Quadraspire racks. So I would say it is an improvement in most cases but apparently not with Mana.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 617
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Hermann »

Well, thats my experience. Over the years, I heard many Mana'd systems and neither of them used Trampolin.
_AB_7220x.jpg
Trust your ears
User avatar
Tendaberry
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 982
Joined: 2010-08-30 16:08
Location: Hamburg

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by Tendaberry »

A few people on other forums have reported improvements using an additional thin (wooden) shelf on top of the Mana or Naim Fraim glass shelf. Mostly they used the Naim "cup and ball" interface between the shelves. Of course you would have to add the Trampolin, when making this comparison.
Personally I've added an 8 mm shelf on top of all my Quadraspire shelves and found it to be a revelation. Much improved timing, pitch stability and musical understanding.
User avatar
John
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 369
Joined: 2012-02-23 13:42
Location: United States

Re: Tramp 2 vs no base

Post by John »

I’ve experimented quite a bit with SO, Audiotech, Archidee dedicated supports, Audiotech and Mana wall shelfs and Mana amp rack with Soundstages and a Mini table. My most memorable moves were removing the Trampolin, moving the LP12 away from a suspended wood floor and studded wall shelf to a solid poured concrete basement floor.

My later experimenting with Symposium Rollerblocks and absorption platforms under my loudspeakers and integrated amp resulted in a conversation with Peter at Symposium which resulted in my modification of a solid Linn baseboard, bolting brass cones to the four corners and placing the deck on one of their absorption platforms. This arrangement facilitates energy draining from the plinth and isolates the deck from the support structure. I’ve been very pleased with the results.

Image
Post Reply