The future?

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beck
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The future?

Post by beck »

As digital is our present and future what are your own thoughts about the way you want to go with your system?

I am retiring from hifi just enjoying what I have and buying a record from time to time. I do not see myself using a lot of money on recordings and equipment I do not get along with but that is just me.
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Re: The future?

Post by lejonklou »

The future is analogue and digital.

No need to retire.
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Re: The future?

Post by Matteo »

I would to improve step-by-step the analogue part of my system and to buy hundreds of s/h records on Discogs

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Re: The future?

Post by FangfossFlyer »

Whilst I am well and truly in the analogue field I see the future for Hi-Fi as digital along the line of Linn’s Exakt architecture.

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Re: The future?

Post by matthias »

FangfossFlyer wrote:.......I see the future for Hi-Fi as digital along the line of Linn’s Exakt architecture.
I see benefits in Exakt for Urika2 vs. Urika1 but not for "Exakted" speakers.

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Re: The future?

Post by Charlie1 »

I'm happy with my current situation - mostly listening to vinyl through an analogue-only system, but also streaming digital as background music in the kitchen/lounge/dinning room. I have no interest in storing digital music locally, not when I've got vinyl as my main source. If I only listened to newly released music then I would probably drop vinyl and store digital music.

Urika 2/Exakt would have to be a 'massive' upgrade in musical enjoyment for me to contemplate it, sufficient to convince me that it would stay ahead of an all-analogue set-up over time. I expect it to bring much more clarity, based on initial reports, but that is not worth anything to me by itself. It is 'interesting' to hear more clearly into a recording, but that has never been a reason I listen to music. My guess it that it won't be as musical as keeping the signal analogue but time will tell.

Also, it would be difficult to feel sure I had a fair comparison of the two. I'd probably have to live with it which is too much hassle. A big downside to Exakt is that it's a whole system, not just a component to try out in your existing setup.
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Re: The future?

Post by u252agz »

The future will be the same as the present and recent past.

Digital making huge strides but always a good distance behind analogue.

I think both are great currently but with the best recordings - there is a certain magic with analogue that digital cannot quite match.

The more digital components in the system - the larger the difference, at least for the moment.

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I thought one just needed a Linn DS with Exact links to use Urika 2, and that one could stay all analogue thereafter?
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Re: The future?

Post by Charlie1 »

u252agz wrote:Charlie 1

I thought one just needed a Linn DS with Exact links to use Urika 2, and that one could stay all analogue thereafter?
OK, thanks - didn't realise that. Not been reading up on it much.

A bit easier to compare after all then, but you'd want to ensure the same torques on the deck or decks. However, I just can't see the point for non-Exakt owners. When did digitisation ever make analogue recordings more enjoyable? I can’t think of any examples.
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Re: The future?

Post by u252agz »

Charlie1 wrote:
u252agz wrote:Charlie 1

I thought one just needed a Linn DS with Exact links to use Urika 2, and that one could stay all analogue thereafter?
A bit easier to compare after all then, but you'd want to ensure the same torques on the deck or decks. However, I just can't see the point for non-Exakt owners. When did digitisation ever make analogue recordings more enjoyable? I can’t think of any examples.
Perhaps the main benefit for non-Exakt owners will be an abundant supply of used Urika I, as some Exakt owners upgrade to Urika 2.
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Re: The future?

Post by mrco99 »

....or the new MC phono stage Fredrik is working on, which has Urika (I) as its benchmark...

Exciting times for analogue lovers!
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Re: The future?

Post by lejonklou »

mrco99 wrote:....or the new MC phono stage Fredrik is working on, which has Urika (I) as its benchmark...
Far from it. The first Slipsik-sized prototype that I brought to RMAF last fall had Urika as its benchmark.

The project has gone a long way since then. The product has grown into a mad beast, bursting us forward through a new and unknown landscape. My back aches as I'm pulling the harness, steering us straight towards a thin, high peak in the distance. The last benchmark we saw was two months ago.
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Re: The future?

Post by Matteo »

Fredrik, what are your post of 24 Jan in the news section referring to?

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Re: The future?

Post by lejonklou »

Matteo wrote:Fredrik, what are your post of 24 Jan in the news section referring to?
To the MC stage project!
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Re: The future?

Post by u252agz »

lejonklou wrote:
mrco99 wrote:....or the new MC phono stage Fredrik is working on, which has Urika (I) as its benchmark...
Far from it. The first Slipsik-sized prototype that I brought to RMAF last fall had Urika as its benchmark.

The project has gone a long way since then. The product has grown into a mad beast, bursting us forward through a new and unknown landscape. My back aches as I'm pulling the harness, steering us straight towards a thin, high peak in the distance. The last benchmark we saw was two months ago.

Great stuff.

Love the fighting spirit and look forward to an MC stage that will leave Urika I and II trailing in the distance.

It is no wonder that digital technology has a seemingly impossible task trying to match Analogue. The bar is being set higher and higher.
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Re: The future?

Post by mrco99 »

lejonklou wrote:
mrco99 wrote:....or the new MC phono stage Fredrik is working on, which has Urika (I) as its benchmark...
Far from it. The first Slipsik-sized prototype that I brought to RMAF last fall had Urika as its benchmark.

The project has gone a long way since then. The product has grown into a mad beast, bursting us forward through a new and unknown landscape. My back aches as I'm pulling the harness, steering us straight towards a thin, high peak in the distance. The last benchmark we saw was two months ago.
....Actually, I hadn´t expected otherwise from you, Fredrik :-)

I hope this beast gets tamed by its master to finally find itself obeying like a dragon pet - while fuelling our analogue playback sessions with such a burning spirit it leaves all MC congenerators behind in smoke...
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Re: The future?

Post by matthias »

Fredrik,

maybe it makes sense to start a new thread about your upcoming MC phono stage with the last posts of this thread?

Thanks

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Re: The future?

Post by ThomasOK »

u252agz wrote:The future will be the same as the present and recent past.

Digital making huge strides but always a good distance behind analogue.

I think both are great currently but with the best recordings - there is a certain magic with analogue that digital cannot quite match.

The more digital components in the system - the larger the difference, at least for the moment.
I would agree with all this, although I might have restated the last sentence to read the more digital components in the system - the larger the degradation, but that is just my experience. I do think that all the possibilities that can be explored with digital processing tends to lead us to think we are smarter than we are - always a danger for the human race. This has lead us to do much fancy processing to try and correct analog things that are digitally uncorrectable (IMHO) which generally leads to less musical perfromance due to the increased complexity of what is being attempted. Because of this my finding is that an all analog system fed by a quality digital source is the most musical way to reproduce digitally stored music. And it can be quite music even if it falls short of the same system with a quality analog source. As always seems to be the case you should make things as simple as possible, but no simpler.

We are in an interesting age where digital is finally becoming musically enjoyable. Just last night I was listening to my lowly KRDS/0 and one song brought a tear to my eye (of course, the same song brings a tear to my eye when watching the youtube video on my iPhone so it may have less to do with the medium and more with my connection to the song). Be that as it may, I can sit and listen to the DS and truly enjoy it. But I enjoy it more when I am playing my LP12. And I mostly, but not exclusively, enjoy recordings that were recorded and mastered analog on my LP12.

The way forward, at least for the foreseeable future is both analog and digital. Analog because, despite the attempt of digital systems to stamp out the mighty LP, turntables and records have come roaring back to the point that everybody seems to be coming out with a new turntable (even companies who have never had them before like Burmester, Levinson, Mobile Fidelity and McIntosh) and even the major labels are starting to press vinyl again. This is in part due to the physicality of the medium - the large jackets and artwork, the actual disk and setting the stylus in the groove, etc. But equally due to the demonstrably better musical reproduction. This last part has occasionally also spurred some artists and engineers to return to analog tape for recording and mastering. We can hope that this is a trend that builds as well.

As for digital, it is obvious to anybody not living in a cave (ah for the life of a wandering sadhu in the Himalayas), that most music is consumed via streaming music services and this will only grow in the future. Already there are signs of the demise of the once powerful CD as more and more people turn to Spotify, Tidal, Apple, etc. But consume might be the operative word as most of this music is consumed much like fast food rather than savored as is the best of both analog and digital reproduction. Fortunately, for those who like to savor music, which should include any on this forum, the advent of top quality streaming devices and high-resolution digital downloads, and even well-ripped CDs, has made for digital reproduction that can truly be savored. I know not all would agree, and I sympathize with the analog zealots, but each can choose their own form of enjoyment and no one can argue with the convenience and access of digital streaming.

Personally, I have the most musical system it has been my pleasure to hear. I also have over 2000 records and I am still buying both old and new music. If availability of quality new music were to end tomorrow and reproducing equipment had reached its pinnacle, I could happily live with my system and music as is and play a record or two a day without repetition for years. But I still see things improving and am looking eagerly forward to the records in my Amazon basket and to the next improvement to musical enrapture to emerge from Uppsala.
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Re: The future?

Post by moog_man »

lejonklou wrote:
mrco99 wrote:....or the new MC phono stage Fredrik is working on, which has Urika (I) as its benchmark...
Far from it. The first Slipsik-sized prototype that I brought to RMAF last fall had Urika as its benchmark.

The project has gone a long way since then. The product has grown into a mad beast, bursting us forward through a new and unknown landscape. My back aches as I'm pulling the harness, steering us straight towards a thin, high peak in the distance. The last benchmark we saw was two months ago.
This type of post fills me with so much hope for the future of vinyl reproduction.

Go, Fredrik... (but hurry up, please!)
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Re: The future?

Post by finster »

You can have and enjoy both analogue and digital!

I started listening and streaming more digital recordings over the past 5 or so years but always knew my TT could show my music server driven content a clean pair of heels. Was nice to flit back and forth. Now I have gone Exakt was very cautious with the move to not compromise my LP12 and that certain quality imbued in vinyl reproduction. I waited until I could buy a Renew KDSM and an akurate exaktbox. The quality of digital playback took a huge leap, it feels much more like live music but more importantly when I spin a record I can't stop grinning, no way have I went backwards!
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Re: The future?

Post by ThomasOK »

I just found this article on the Part-Time Audiophile and found it quite topical to this thread. I don't necessarily agree with all his findings, although I have to admit I have not heard a system constructed according to his theories and would like to. But I do find his chart and thinking interesting and thought provoking. The comments on measurements vs. listening are worth considering and certainly reminiscent of the DVC vs. analog volume control debate. Also I do tend to agree that recording and software seems to have reached its peak in the 50s and 60s, which ties into comments in another thread. See what you think:

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/01/ ... e-decades/
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Re: The future?

Post by beck »

ThomasOK wrote:I just found this article on the Part-Time Audiophile and found it quite topical to this thread. I don't necessarily agree with all his findings, although I have to admit I have not heard a system constructed according to his theories and would like to. But I do find his chart and thinking interesting and thought provoking. The comments on measurements vs. listening are worth considering and certainly reminiscent of the DVC vs. analog volume control debate. Also I do tend to agree that recording and software seems to have reached its peak in the 50s and 60s, which ties into comments in another thread. See what you think:

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/01/ ... e-decades/
Thank you for the link Thomas. Very interesting read indeed.

The rise of the reel to reel tape is also interesting to follow. Just listen to some of the many clips on youtube.
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