New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by teatime » 2018-02-01 19:24

Thanks for the update, ThomasOK! Interesting stuff.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by Linnofil » 2018-02-02 16:28

ThomasOK wrote:this sounds likely to be a very good product. Sort of a baby Radikal.
Thanks for all the info in this thread Thomas! I wonder if they could have made the AC Lingo 4 better than the Radikal, but had to stop developing it before it became better than the highly marketed "DC is the future" solution in the Radikal? Anyway, I'm happy if it's a big improvement from the Lingo 3. I'm sure it has the potential to be just that. In theory, it should be possible to get SW upgrades to!

But why the ugly PSU box? I realize it is probably cheaper, but low volume, additional packaging etc probably makes it less cheap than you think at first. I'm pretty sure the LP12 will sound better with that PSU box on a proper shelf. And then what happens? The wife, friends, houseguests etc will see it and question your sanity even more! It is also good to see that not all new products from Linn has astronomical prices.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by Matteo » 2018-02-02 16:48

Linnofil wrote:
But why the ugly PSU box? I realize it is probably cheaper, but low volume, additional packaging etc probably makes it less cheap than you think at first. I'm pretty sure the LP12 will sound better with that PSU box on a proper shelf. And then what happens? The wife, friends, houseguests etc will see it and question your sanity even more! It is also good to see that not all new products from Linn has astronomical prices.
In fact, in my living room, the Akurate Radikal is camouflaged with the other Akurate electronics.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by teatime » 2018-02-02 18:00

Speaking of camouflage; Urika -> Urika II is the perfect stealth upgrade. :D

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by macrotech2 » 2018-02-02 18:14

ThomasOK wrote:A few addendums on the Urika II.
•The initial gain stage is analog to bring it up to the level to drive the ADC properly.
•You do not need an Exakt system to use the Urika II but you do need a DS or DSM with Exaktlink. If you have one of those you can connect the Urika II to it and then either use the DVC or a separate preamp to feed your amps or speakers.
Is it limited to MC cartridges only? Seems a bit odd if it is as the initial analog gain stage could be modified to suit MM or bypassed entirely. Perhaps this would compromise ultimate performance.

I wonder if the ADC is the same as in the Klimax DSM or a newer chip.

Interesting that DS owners now have an Exakt input. I wonder at what point the Exakt signal is decoded and enters the existing processing chain.

Could we now have an external box that Exaktifies other analogue signals? If you only needed a single extra input it would be cheaper than a DSM

My idle ramblings for today!
KDS/3 Katalyst / Oppo 205 / Sky Q / Sagatun Mono Tarandus / Tundra Mono 2 Tarandus / Akubariks

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by anthony » 2018-02-02 20:08

Moving magnet compromised the performance, mc only.
That ADC is of highest quality possible, and similar to that in klimax, with the benefit of one adc per channel.
The ds or dam acts as preamp and can be taken from ds as analogue or exakt
Last edited by anthony on 2018-02-03 04:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by matthias » 2018-02-02 22:28

Linnofil wrote:I wonder if they could have made the AC Lingo 4 better than the Radikal, but had to stop developing it before it became better than the highly marketed "DC is the future" solution in the Radikal?
+1
I do not believe that the DC motor per se is better than the AC motor. It is all about implementation.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-02-03 00:00

macrotech2 wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:A few addendums on the Urika II.
•The initial gain stage is analog to bring it up to the level to drive the ADC properly.
•You do not need an Exakt system to use the Urika II but you do need a DS or DSM with Exaktlink. If you have one of those you can connect the Urika II to it and then either use the DVC or a separate preamp to feed your amps or speakers.
Is it limited to MC cartridges only? Seems a bit odd if it is as the initial analog gain stage could be modified to suit MM or bypassed entirely. Perhaps this would compromise ultimate performance.

I wonder if the ADC is the same as in the Klimax DSM or a newer chip.

Interesting that DS owners now have an Exakt input. I wonder at what point the Exakt signal is decoded and enters the existing processing chain.

Could we now have an external box that Exaktifies other analogue signals? If you only needed a single extra input it would be cheaper than a DSM

My idle ramblings for today!
Yes, MC only as the different loadings and gain necessary for MM cartridges would make it more complex and compromise musical quality.

The ADC chip is the same as used in the Klimax DS/DSM. However, the Urika II uses one chip per channel instead of one chip for both which is claimed to improve perfromance.

The Exakt spec is that the signal is 24/192. So the Urika II would digitize the input and downsample to 24/192. I don't know where precisely the RIAA EQ is done. But it appears that the reference clock signal comes from the DS/DSM to the Urika II.
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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-02-03 00:06

Linnofil wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:this sounds likely to be a very good product. Sort of a baby Radikal.
Thanks for all the info in this thread Thomas! I wonder if they could have made the AC Lingo 4 better than the Radikal, but had to stop developing it before it became better than the highly marketed "DC is the future" solution in the Radikal? Anyway, I'm happy if it's a big improvement from the Lingo 3. I'm sure it has the potential to be just that. In theory, it should be possible to get SW upgrades to!

But why the ugly PSU box? I realize it is probably cheaper, but low volume, additional packaging etc probably makes it less cheap than you think at first. I'm pretty sure the LP12 will sound better with that PSU box on a proper shelf. And then what happens? The wife, friends, houseguests etc will see it and question your sanity even more! It is also good to see that not all new products from Linn has astronomical prices.
I'm doubtful they could have made it better than Radikal, but who knows. Plus you still have the problem of the fluctuating magnetic field which would not allow for the Urika. Keith heard a demo of the Lingo 3 vs. the 4 in Scotland and said the difference was substantial. Although it is software controlled it is probably a non-trivial task to update it as there is no network or USB connection on the board. I'd hate to think that we could end up having to use old Windows machines and Wee Doufers to apply updates to it!
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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by Discodave » 2018-02-03 12:36

Excited by Lingo 4 and its price point!!

Don't think I could ever afford or justify the price of Radikal

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by matthias » 2018-02-03 15:51

Interesting that the Radikal will only supply power to the Urika2 when the turntable is rotating.

I would prefer to have the phono preamp permanently switched on.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-02-03 16:45

matthias wrote:Interesting that the Radikal will only supply power to the Urika2 when the turntable is rotating.

I would prefer to have the phono preamp permanently switched on.

Matt
Interesting thought. This is also the case with the original Urika.
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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by matthias » 2018-02-04 00:34

The transition from Urika1 to Urika2 is a first rate marketing trick from Linn to bind customers in the Linn system.
Where the Urika1 could stand on its own feet, the Urika2 now needs a Klimax Exakt DSM, Klimax DS or Klimax DSM to work properly. This is not a good situation for a customer who wants only the best vinyl playback system from Linn and nothing more.
A nice solution will be the upcoming Lejonklou MC phono preamp. IMO, this will be with a Lingo4 or Radikal LP12 a terrific pure analog vinyl playback system.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by TMV » 2018-02-04 05:28

matthias wrote:The transition from Urika1 to Urika2 is a first rate marketing trick from Linn to bind customers in the Linn system.
Why is this a marketing trick? Linn is going Exakt and with digital RIAA they can improve the performance at the same cost. (Everyone might not agree it's better, but that's another story...)

I like that Linn is still investing in vinyl, and not only the highest-end.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by matthias » 2018-02-04 06:32

TMV wrote:.......at the same cost.
With Urika1 you can go directly to a preamp without Linn DS.
With Urika2 you need a Linn DS.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by Matteo » 2018-02-05 19:26

Discodave wrote:Excited by Lingo 4 and its price point!!

Don't think I could ever afford or justify the price of Radikal
I went from Lingo 3 to (Akurate) Radikal. Radikal is better but, IMHO, does not worth the extra 2,100 €.
Lingo 3 has a better VfM.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by Discodave » 2018-02-05 20:28

A man after my own heart Matteo.
I have not heard a Radikal...so my justification was relative to spending that amount on a power supply not the increase in performance for money spent.

Very interesting though to hear your thoughts. Value for money has informed all my decisions regards my hifi journey. I liken it to tunedem....if you get the vfm right then there is a solid basis for keeping upgradeitus and a wonderful hobby in perspective :)

It's also the reason I'm interested in Frederik's products!

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by matthias » 2018-02-05 23:28

Some listening from the Netherlands:

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

I like the new Lingo power supply case!

Matt
Last edited by matthias on 2018-02-06 10:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by beck » 2018-02-06 08:23

matthias wrote:Some listening from the Netherlands:

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

I like the new Lingo power supply!

Matt
Thank you for the link! I wish I could share your optimisme.........

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by Matteo » 2018-02-06 09:10

Discodave wrote:A man after my own heart Matteo.
I have not heard a Radikal...so my justification was relative to spending that amount on a power supply not the increase in performance for money spent.

Very interesting though to hear your thoughts. Value for money has informed all my decisions regards my hifi journey. I liken it to tunedem....if you get the vfm right then there is a solid basis for keeping upgradeitus and a wonderful hobby in perspective :)

It's also the reason I'm interested in Frederik's products!
If Lingo 4 is really better than Lingo 3, the extra €€€ for Radikal will be even less justifiable ...

The only problem could be the positioning of its odd case.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by Charlie1 » 2018-02-06 10:03

Matteo wrote:The only problem could be the positioning of its odd case.
I'm a bit surprised it has a cable protruding each end. If they expect it to sit on the same shelf as the LP12 then it must surely sit to one side. Therefore, it will have a cable sticking out the front which isn't really what I'd want to see.

And I can't see how it could be positioned longways side-to-side and hidden behind another component.

I like the size of it though and the fact they are not wasting another full width box on it.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by Matteo » 2018-02-06 10:25

I think that the best option could be on the floor, but this could affect the performance and probably the cable from LP12 is not long enough, in particular if you have it on a wall shelf

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by beck » 2018-02-06 11:11

matthias wrote:Some listening from the Netherlands:

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

I like the new Lingo power supply case!

Matt
I wish I could share your optimisme! ;-)

On a serious note though the way the improvements are discribed when they use the lingo 4 makes me uneasy but I could be wrong.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by matthias » 2018-02-06 12:04

beck wrote: I wish I could share your optimisme! ;-)
On a serious note though the way the improvements are discribed when they use the lingo 4 makes me uneasy but I could be wrong.
Hi beck,
my optimism was related to the Lingo case only. I would like to listen to both the new Lingo and Urika2.
I am curious about Fredriks and Thomas´opinion after listening.

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Re: New LP12 Urika II phonostage and Lingo 4

Post by matthias » 2018-02-06 13:11

Two questions for Thomas or other experts:

Is it now possible to have TWO sources with Klimax DS: Ethernet AND Urika2 ?

Are different gain settings possible with Urika2?

Thanks

Matt
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