Quick ? Pls

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bonzo
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Quick ? Pls

Post by bonzo »

Quick question for the group, if I do push these amps too much will they simply cut off I realize there’s no protection within the amps, I guess my question is if I play them too loud will it cause any harm to the amp or my speaker thank you

I’m referring to the tundra mono twos that I have on loan to audition. There’s the same question in another thread however I was hoping I would get a quicker response by creating a new thread my apologies for confusing anybody
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lejonklou
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Re: Quick ? Pls

Post by lejonklou »

My amps are designed to perform equally well on all levels, from very quiet up to where they're just about to clip. There's no compression effect, which most amps have and which causes them to sound less agile the louder you play. Which in turn often creates a wish to play louder, as one usually increases the volume to get a stronger emotional kick, but the compression counteracts this by decreasing the kick.

There is protection in the amps, but only slow acting systems. These had no impact on the sound, while the fast shutdowns had a clear impact no matter how I tried implementing them. So what can damage your amp is 1) to short circuit the loudspeaker output, or 2) to drive the amp far beyond clipping (regardless of whether you have a speaker connected or not).

The clipping is not softened (such circuits are also detrimental to sound quality), so you'll certainly notice when they're happening. It's a complete cut off of the peak or a "plop" sound, usually in the bass. When you reach that level, just back off one step and you're perfectly safe to continue playing for as long as you like. Occasional clipping is not harmful, neither to the amp nor the speakers, but if you increase the volume so that it clips continually, the output stage of the amp will eventually give in. The speakers are unlikely to break before the amp does.
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Re: Quick ? Pls

Post by lejonklou »

One more thing: People are different. Some are reckless and just push the pedal to the floor on their first ride to see what the brand new car can do. Some are very careful, worry about breaking anything and never test the limits. Most of us are somewhere in between those two extremes. This makes advice a little complicated.

My advice to owners of my amps who want to play loud is to find the clipping point. Unless your ears hurt (likely with high efficiency speakers) or your speakers bottom out (very unlikely), just turn the volume up to 70 (yellow) and then gradually increase one step at a time until you hear the amp clip (a "plop" or a crashing sound). This will teach you both how the clipping sounds and at roughly which volume it happens (it will vary a bit between songs). Just don't continue increasing the volume beyond this point.
bonzo
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Re: Quick ? Pls

Post by bonzo »

Frederik,
Thank you so much for answering my question. I was very nervous that I could harm these beauties thus offering them useless. That’s good news to hear. Would you believe in my 18 years of Linn ownership, your amps are the first product I’ve ever been offered and allowed to demo in home. I’m grateful for Tom for being so gracious offering me in home demo.
More amp feedback in other thread (no pun intended)
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macrotech2
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Re: Quick ? Pls

Post by macrotech2 »

Fredrik's post explains the absolutely amazing listening session I had last week, where I pushed the Monos louder than I had done before. I was rewarded with an incredibly solid yet delicate sound where everything just got louder without any sign of strain. My old Klimax Twin would never have got that loud, because it just became too harsh.

I didn't seem to hit clipping, even though I got into orange territory
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DelNaja
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Re: Quick ? Pls

Post by DelNaja »

I've been a couple of steps below orange at most, and have yet to experience clipping. I must have been close, though. Another thing is that with movies, it's possible to climb higher than with music. With music green is very loud, at least on my Ninkas.
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Re: Quick ? Pls

Post by sunbeamgls »

A supplementary quick question please.

In the Tundra Stereo 2.5 manual, it mentions going no further than 78 volume on the Sagatun when using a digital source. Is there a direct equivalent to this number for the Linn DSMs please?
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Re: Quick ? Pls

Post by lejonklou »

sunbeamgls wrote:A supplementary quick question please.

In the Tundra Stereo 2.5 manual, it mentions going no further than 78 volume on the Sagatun when using a digital source. Is there a direct equivalent to this number for the Linn DSMs please?
Volume 78 is the clipping point for Tundra and Tundra Mono when playing a digital file that is mixed to use maximum volume in the peaks (many are mixed much lower) and with a source that outputs 2 Vrms.

This will apply to your DSM as well, but please note that some clipping is harmless if you then just lower your volume until the clipping disappears. Clipping on Tundra and Tundra Mono is very obvious and this is intentional - it will deliver full quality all the way until maximum volume. Just don't keep increasing the volume when it obviously clips.
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Re: Quick ? Pls

Post by sunbeamgls »

lejonklou wrote:
sunbeamgls wrote:A supplementary quick question please.

In the Tundra Stereo 2.5 manual, it mentions going no further than 78 volume on the Sagatun when using a digital source. Is there a direct equivalent to this number for the Linn DSMs please?
Volume 78 is the clipping point for Tundra and Tundra Mono when playing a digital file that is mixed to use maximum volume in the peaks (many are mixed much lower) and with a source that outputs 2 Vrms.

This will apply to your DSM as well, but please note that some clipping is harmless if you then just lower your volume until the clipping disappears. Clipping on Tundra and Tundra Mono is very obvious and this is intentional - it will deliver full quality all the way until maximum volume. Just don't keep increasing the volume when it obviously clips.
Thanks Fredrik. Given that there are very few tracks I play above 67 and the difference between the amps equates to 8 clicks, then it would seem unlikely that 78 would be approached. There are a couple of exceptions to this, a good example being Hugh Maskela's Stimela live, which needs a good 6 clicks higher than the majority of tracks, but that must be due to being a fair way off 0dB recording levels.
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
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