Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Charlie1 »

beck wrote:No surprice to me. The third way is my way. :-)
Been trying it this morning using our iPad to load down the Urika to create a more comfortable volume level, but still loudish, especially 45s.

I like it, particularly the improved dynamics - sounds appear much quicker, kind of surprise me a bit. But overall, going back to KK seems more tuneful and more enjoyable. Need to compare again really, but that's my initial impression. No loading and vol 80 is clearly better than KK but not realistic for me - too loud and too scary :)
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2017-11-03 17:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by beck »

Charlie1 wrote:
beck wrote:No surprice to me. The third way is my way. :-)
Been trying it this morning using our iPad to load down the Urika to create a more comfortable volume level, but still loudish, especially 45s.

I like it, particularly the improved dynamics - sounds appear much quicker, kind of surprise me a bit. But overall, going back to KK seems more tuneful and more enjoyable. Need to compare again really, but that's my initial impression. No loading and vol 80 is probably better than KK but not realistic for me - too loud and too scary :)
Yes, to me loading down the signal is less enjoyable than no loading in my system. I am just lucky that no loading in my system is just right for my loud listening.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Efraim roots »

beck wrote:In the long run I know that the only thing worth reaching for via recorded music is the common bond we have as humans. This bond of human emotion (experience through living) told by musicians through their music is the real "gold".
That is what we all should be digging for. Happy hunting. :-)
+111

That comment is also gold :-)

That's the communication going on when music go deeper.

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...according to the brain.
the players of instruments shall be there..
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by ThomasOK »

Interesting comparisons. Still much prefer pre-first to Radikal-first. I honestly don't hear the Radikal-first as rhythmically better, to me it it the other way around. The third way is interesting having a very direct sound to it where you can hear more but it also has a stridency I don't care for. Overall I would still go with the KK in the line and connected to AC first, especially as volume control is rather handy. :-) However, I can't help thinking what a pair of Sagatun Monos would do to the whole thing! ;-) (Sorry, Charlie1!.)
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Charlie1 »

ThomasOK wrote:However, I can't help thinking what a pair of Sagatun Monos would do to the whole thing! ;-) (Sorry, Charlie1!.)
BAD Thomas!
ThomasOK wrote:The third way is interesting having a very direct sound to it where you can hear more but it also has a stridency I don't care for.
Yes, I think you're right, thanks for highlighting.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Charlie1 »

Here's the more realistic volume level and KK set to 62.5 and iPad connected in the non-KK clip. The music seems a bit stiff without the KK so more flowing with it:

EM no KK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nvf50h9ip5ktp ... K.MOV?dl=0
EM with KK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9bmuqayw1x1v ... K.MOV?dl=0

Has anyone tried passive attenuators instead of a pre-amp? Should I expect the same sort of result using them?

PS Maffe, this is Eleanor McEvoy, complete with her Irish lilt.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by beck »

Two things comes to my mind: Better flow with KK but more believable intervals between the notes without KK (less squeeze effect).
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by lejonklou »

I'm unsure if I understand exactly what you're comparing, but the music certainly makes much more sense to me in the with-KK clip.

Passive attenuators kill the music. Impedances in to and out of units are very important and those attenuators mess that up by acting as a big brake in between.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by beck »

lejonklou wrote:I'm unsure if I understand exactly what you're comparing, but the music certainly makes much more sense to me in the with-KK clip.

Passive attenuators kill the music. Impedances in to and out of units are very important and those attenuators mess that up by acting as a big brake in between.
I agree as I could not live with my system only listening to it with passive impedance used.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote:I'm unsure if I understand exactly what you're comparing
iPad headphone socket connected to the Tundra outputs, same as Beck has done on his system - it was discussed a year or so again, where he is 'overloading the Linto', if that's the correct term. So, I was doing the same with Urika.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by lejonklou »

Yes I remember.

So the headphone output of an ipad is connected to Tundra? Hopefully the iPad doesn't make any sound, because if so BAM.

The main reason why it sounds worse (but "interesting") is that the Urika is working hard. The correct term is loaded down, not overloaded, which rather indicates the signal from the cartridge is too high.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by beck »

lejonklou wrote:Yes I remember.

So the headphone output of an ipad is connected to Tundra? Hopefully the iPad doesn't make any sound, because if so BAM.

The main reason why it sounds worse (but "interesting") is that the Urika is working hard. The correct term is loaded down, not overloaded, which rather indicates the signal from the cartridge is too high.
Why BAM? I have run ipad this way to get good sound when watching youtube through my system on a weekly basis alone and have run signals from ipad and turntable at the same time with no problems (not on purpose though).
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by lejonklou »

I was assuming the volume is set to normal headphone level, which would probably mean VERY LOUD when the same signal goes directly to a power amplifier. No?
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote:Yes I remember.

So the headphone output of an ipad is connected to Tundra? Hopefully the iPad doesn't make any sound, because if so BAM.

The main reason why it sounds worse (but "interesting") is that the Urika is working hard. The correct term is loaded down, not overloaded, which rather indicates the signal from the cartridge is too high.
Ok, thanks for clarifying the terminology.
iPad was turned off, which is why I find just connecting the device makes any difference.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by beck »

lejonklou wrote:I was assuming the volume is set to normal headphone level, which would probably mean VERY LOUD when the same signal goes directly to a power amplifier. No?
In my system I can run ipad at full headphone level with no problem. Usually I run it close to full volume when watching something that needs good sound.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by lejonklou »

beck wrote:In my system I can run ipad at full headphone level with no problem. Usually I run it close to full volume when watching something that needs good sound.
I'm surprised the level isn't higher.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by ThomasOK »

Charlie1 wrote:Here's the more realistic volume level and KK set to 62.5 and iPad connected in the non-KK clip. The music seems a bit stiff without the KK so more flowing with it:

EM no KK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nvf50h9ip5ktp ... K.MOV?dl=0
EM with KK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9bmuqayw1x1v ... K.MOV?dl=0

Has anyone tried passive attenuators instead of a pre-amp? Should I expect the same sort of result using them?

PS Maffe, this is Eleanor McEvoy, complete with her Irish lilt.
I actually don't find anything preferable about the first clip. Flow, timing and pitch all seem superior to me with the KK in the circuit on this one.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by u252agz »

I agree.

I much prefer with the KK in place.

Huge difference and I am struggling to find any redeeming features without KK.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Charlie1 »

u252agz wrote:I am struggling to find any redeeming features without KK.
I didn't hear any either, other than greater clarity.

I think the earlier vol 80 comparison was closer, although in hindsight, think the KK was better then too.

Oh well, not for me then, and like Tom said, that volume control thingy is quite handy :)

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by beck »

Charlie1 wrote:
u252agz wrote:I am struggling to find any redeeming features without KK.
I didn't hear any either, other than greater clarity.

I think the earlier vol 80 comparison was closer, although in hindsight, think the KK was better then too.

Oh well, not for me then, and like Tom said, that volume control thingy is quite handy :)

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
And as I wrote further up the tread I actually agree! :-)
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by u252agz »

Pre amplifiers have always been crucial in my systems.

Kolektor to AK/1 was transformational as was AK/1 to Sagatun Monos.

A temporary switch from AK/1 to the internal DVC of the KDS/1 was shockingly bad and the worst my system has ever sounded.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by maffe »

Charlie1 wrote:Here's the more realistic volume level and KK set to 62.5 and iPad connected in the non-KK clip. The music seems a bit stiff without the KK so more flowing with it:

EM no KK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nvf50h9ip5ktp ... K.MOV?dl=0
EM with KK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m9bmuqayw1x1v ... K.MOV?dl=0

Has anyone tried passive attenuators instead of a pre-amp? Should I expect the same sort of result using them?

PS Maffe, this is Eleanor McEvoy, complete with her Irish lilt.
Eleanore McEvoy have been playing almost all time this week, thx!
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by u252agz »

And thanks to Charlie 1, I currently have Laura Marling ' I Speak Because I Can' on my LP12- great album and recording.

Part of an increasingly long list of new artists / recordings based on recommendations or just listening to clips on the forum.
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Charlie1 »

maffe wrote:Eleanore McEvoy have been playing almost all time this week, thx!
You're welcome. I think it was David Neal on the forum recommended it. I particularly enjoy 'Whisper a Prayer to the Moon'.

I was thinking of getting another LP, but couldn't make up my mind which one to get.
u252agz wrote:And thanks to Charlie 1, I currently have Laura Marling ' I Speak Because I Can' on my LP12- great album and recording.
Cool!
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Re: Tundra 2.2 vs Linn C4200/D and KCT/D

Post by Charlie1 »

At the risk of going on, I've recently re-positioned the speakers following the Tundra upgrade. I should have done it sooner but I'm always a bit lazy to do this.

It's really just doing even more of the same. I don't think I'll have to buy another LP in a long time - There are so many albums to go back to and listen/re-evaluate. So much of my music is enjoyable/interesting/engaging for the first time. What a great product! And the system overall sounds fab - I'm quite proud of it :)

Thanks also to Tony with advise on speaker positions to try. Better than what I came up with, although not a million miles away.
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