JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

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JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by HansW »

Hi!
Given the popularity of JBL speakers here I wonder if anyone has experience of the JBL PROJECT K2 S9900 speakers. Heard them at a show recently doing an impressive job on some bass heavy tracks.

Best regards

Hans
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by matthias »

HansW wrote:Given the popularity of JBL speakers here I wonder if anyone has experience of the JBL PROJECT K2 S9900 speakers. Heard them at a show recently doing an impressive job on some bass heavy tracks.
Hi Hans,

there are quite a few members here who like the JBL3677s because of their unsurpassed price-performance-ratio and their great musicality.
The K2 S9900s are more than 20 times more expensive than the 3677s. I am a "source first" guy and like to spend more money on sources and amps than on speakers.
Sorry, I have so far no experience with these JBLs.

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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by HansW »

Hi,

I am also a source first guy but when you have the 'best' sources you need to look elsewhere for further improvement. I have hear the K2 at hifi show and it made me interested. Show conditions are not reliable however, hence my question here.

Hans
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by ThomasOK »

I also have wondered about these speakers. I mentioned them to Fredrik sometime back. I know Paul Messenger was quite impressed with a version of these, I think the S9800s, a few years back and I wondered about them at the time. Hearing them in a proper system is the difficulty as they appear to be most popular in the far East. I doubt there are many of them on demo anywhere in the US. But I would certainly like to know more about them.

In some research I have noted that some feel the real King Kong of K2 speakers is the original S9500 from 1989. In some ways it appears to be a quite interesting project - a two way system with a titanium diaphragm horn between two 14" bass/mid drivers. So basically a very big MTM setup. The crossover is at 650Hz so a lot lower than the 3677. But it would be fun to hear. On the other hand I hear they weren't even sold in the US so not to common over here.
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by beck »

At last! I found my speakers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r8MrNKmBBEo

I actually really, really like the sound of this system. :-)
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by matthias »

beck wrote:At last! I found my speakers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r8MrNKmBBEo
I actually really, really like the sound of this system. :-)
If you like these you will love 3677s:-)

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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by ThomasOK »

Better watch it! If you get into the JBL speakers refurbished by Kenrick there is no telling how far down the rabbit hole you may go!
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by Music Lover »

beck wrote:At last! I found my speakers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r8MrNKmBBEo

I actually really, really like the sound of this system. :-)
imho, you aren't using the full capability playing such music on these speakers. It's too easy.
You should play rock on high volume instead :)
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by matthias »

Music Lover wrote:
beck wrote:At last! I found my speakers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r8MrNKmBBEo
I actually really, really like the sound of this system. :-)
imho, you aren't using the full capability playing such music on these speakers. It's too easy.
You should play rock on high volume instead :)
Yes, or sometimg like this on live volume:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?annotation_ ... G5HsHC4eeA

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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by tokenbrit »

Please stop posting about JBLs - I'm trying to resist the temptation of getting a pair of 3677s; telling myself I am happy with my current speakers and not spending any money... This isn't helping!

Chuckling at the thought of Linnofil making some Ofil stands for those 4355s though - looks like they're big in Japan :)
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by matthias »

tokenbrit wrote:Please stop posting about JBLs - I'm trying to resist the temptation of getting a pair of 3677s; telling myself I am happy with my current speakers and not spending any money... This isn't helping!
They are so cheap and so good....... it is impossible to resist.

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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by ThomasOK »

Yep, big in Japan, they're big in Japan.

But there's bigger. I warned you about Kenrick. Obviously real believers in the hierarchy too.

https://youtu.be/F6dmUadZTtc
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by tokenbrit »

matthias wrote:
tokenbrit wrote:Please stop posting about JBLs - I'm trying to resist the temptation of getting a pair of 3677s; telling myself I am happy with my current speakers and not spending any money... This isn't helping!
They are so cheap and so good....... it is impossible to resist.

Matt
*Relatively* cheap - they are more expensive than 'bought & paid for' ;)
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by tokenbrit »

ThomasOK wrote:Yep, big in Japan, they're big in Japan.

But there's bigger. I warned you about Kenrick. Obviously real believers in the hierarchy too.

https://youtu.be/F6dmUadZTtc
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by Music Lover »

ThomasOK wrote:Yep, big in Japan, they're big in Japan.

But there's bigger. I warned you about Kenrick. Obviously real believers in the hierarchy too.

https://youtu.be/F6dmUadZTtc
Wow, that was rather un-musical.
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by tokenbrit »

ThomasOK wrote:Yep, big in Japan, they're big in Japan.

But there's bigger. I warned you about Kenrick. Obviously real believers in the hierarchy too.

https://youtu.be/F6dmUadZTtc
If the JBL Paragon is the 'sideboard' in the front, what on Earth are the 'wardrobes' behind?

Is there a sense of what Kenrick does to these JBLs, and any experience that might be of benefit to 3677 owners here?
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by tokenbrit »

ThomasOK wrote:Obviously real believers in the hierarchy too.
The sauce is in the speaker :)
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by beck »

Now, do we still think that 3677's are big and ugly! :-)

Well, it actually helps me listening to these videos as I can tell that I am moving in the right direction finding what I like soundwise in my own little setup. Many of the clips you can find on youtube of newer setups have a kind of synthetic sound about them that I do not like (do not mention exact).
I am not going to buy new for some time but pleased with the decisions I have made in the past about equipment.
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by beck »

Music Lover wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:Yep, big in Japan, they're big in Japan.

But there's bigger. I warned you about Kenrick. Obviously real believers in the hierarchy too.

https://youtu.be/F6dmUadZTtc
Wow, that was rather un-musical.
You are right. It must be the D-class amp in that hybrid that ruins the sound.
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by ThomasOK »

It is really bad, isn't it.
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by ThomasOK »

Well, despite my warnings to others, this thread has taken me down a bit of a rabbit hole. It turns out Harman/JBL (now Samsung) has been busy the last few years. Interestingly, their latest research has lead them in a direction somewhat familiar to those of us 3677 owners.

First off I present the JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor.

Image


This is the system that JBL is touting as the best monitoring system available. They have also received a fair bit of positive press from studio owners and even a number of people using this system in their homes. On the upside this is a two way speaker with a compression/horn driver for the upper mids and highs and a 15" bass/mid driver with two front facing ports - strikingly similar to the 3677s although with a crossover frequency of 800Hz and a much taller cabinet. These are both unusual drivers that were designed for this project. The 15" woofer has two voice coils and two magnets meant to allow more output with less volume compression and deeper bass. The compression HF driver also has two voice coils and two magnets for increased power handling but also uses a ring radiator (kind of like half a donut) instead of a conventional dome, which is meant to remove breakup and resonance. It also has a new horn claimed to give this the most even power response of any speaker made. JBL claims a frequency response form 20Hz to 40kHz, which is quite a wide range from a two way system.

On the downside you might notice the Crown amps in the photo above. That is why this is called a system. It is an active setup that uses DSP based crossovers with room correction capabilities included. The recommended setup is with the two Crown amps shown above which have the DSP and processing electronics built in along with analog, digital and ethernet connections. They also recommend that you have lots of power (the Crowns included are 1250 watts a channel) and the efficiency is 92dB - a fair bit short of the 3677s 99dB. You can buy it without the Crown amps so you can use your own but you will then need to buy a Harman BSS Soundweb processor/DSP to handle crossover duties. So there is really no way around the digital crossover (which is probably also part of how they get down to 20Hz). This is all a definite downside for a number of us and has been mentioned in some of the reviews as something that might make analog people look elsewhere (are there any digital people yet?).

The other downside is that the system typically sells for $20,000 even with a discount. So not quite the bargain of the 3677s.

But, as it often does, one product leads to another. So here I present the JBL Synthesis 4367.

Image

In many ways I find these even more interesting. This is because they are meant to be viewed as the more compact home and pro version of the M2. As you can see in the photos they have a wood veneer finish (available in Walnut or black painted Walnut) and are quite a bit shorter than the M2s (37" tall vs 49.5"). However, they are about 2" wider and deeper and actually slightly heavier so internal volume may not be that much different. But they are still two way speakers with a 15" woofer and a compression driver, which cross over here at 700Hz. The similarities are deeeper than that as they use the same compression driver and a newly updated version of the same woofer used in the M2. The new woofer has been improved slightly to give a touch cleaner and more extended bass. As is obvious the 4367 also has a quite different horn from the M2, more like the one on the 3677, which likely has more limited vertical dispersion that some designers favor. The quoted frequency response is 30Hz to 40kHz, so still a very wide range for a two way system, with a little better efficiency of 94dB. These are passive speakers with separate crossover boards for the bass and highs and separate input terminals with jumpers. They also are a bit less expensive at $15,000 a pair although it is pretty easy to find a significant discount on that.

So it appears that JBL is certainly into the 15", 2 way, horn tweeter design for some of its new top designs. While they continue on with three ways, featuring a super tweeter for the K2 and Everest models, still with 15" woofers (2 per speaker in the case of the Everest). It is interesting that the predecessor of the 4367, the 4365, was also a three way with a super tweeter built into the top of the tweeter/upper mid horn. It seems like JBL has been working more towards making hf drivers that can extend all the way up without a super tweeter allowing for simpler crossovers and speakers.

So anybody want to go out and get a pair of 4367s to see what a souped up 3677 sounds like?
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by beck »

No, I will not :-), but a very interesting read indeed.
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by Charlie1 »

Apparently Harman has a single development team for all their products (JBL, Mark Levinson, AKG etc).
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by ThomasOK »

Actually they didn't used to. Indeed they made a big deal of their Hi-Fi and pro speaker design teams collaborating on the M2 design. But it used to be that the Revel speaker and the JBL speaker design groups were completely separate with different opinions about how things should be done.

But now that they are owned by Samsung I imagine a lot is changing.
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Re: JBL PROJECT K2 S9900

Post by tokenbrit »

Any sense that those on the fence about buying a pair of 3677s should plan to pull the trigger sooner rather than later, in case Samsung change things? Presumably distributor / dealer stock of 3677s would still be 'made by JBL' for a while yet.
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