After a lot of experimenting I am convinced that if anyone could invent a devise (x-ray?) that could read the vibration patterns different places on a hifi system it would be of great help to us all.
Different patterns that collapse together inside a hifi devise transported by cables are likely to have a negative effect on the outcome. Just a feeling I get from a lot of experimenting.

how about a small speaker driver or moving microphone, or a more sophisticated transducer connected to an oscilloscope?
Donuk sunny downtown York

Even if we have the best measuring devices we would have to validate all results by human ear/brain with tune method.

Matt

matthias wrote:Even if we have the best measuring devices we would have to validate all results by human ear/brain with tune method.

Matt

I agree but it could be nice to have some kind of pistol that could messure vibration (like the ones messuring heat from houses) to pinpoint where the problems are. Just like the clips we make it might help us! :-)

beck wrote:

matthias wrote:Even if we have the best measuring devices we would have to validate all results by human ear/brain with tune method.
Matt

I agree but it could be nice to have some kind of pistol that could messure vibration (like the ones messuring heat from houses) to pinpoint where the problems are. Just like the clips we make it might help us! :-)

Yes, but audio is far more sophisticated and difficult.
One example: Both the old steel sub chassis and the Keel are ringing, but the Keel is much superior. So measuring vibration may not be the best method to find out the best component in this case. And there is no evidence that dampening vibrations is superior for audio.

Matt

matthias wrote:

beck wrote:

matthias wrote:Even if we have the best measuring devices we would have to validate all results by human ear/brain with tune method.
Matt

I agree but it could be nice to have some kind of pistol that could messure vibration (like the ones messuring heat from houses) to pinpoint where the problems are. Just like the clips we make it might help us! :-)

Yes, but audio is far more sophisticated and difficult.
One example: Both the old steel sub chassis and the Keel are ringing, but the Keel is much superior. So measuring vibration may not be the best method to find out the best component in this case. And there is no evidence that dampening vibrations is superior for audio.

Matt

I agree. I want to "see" what patterns of vibration works well together and what ruins the sound. I do not want to dampen anything especially.

I guess that when a piece of equipment placed on a certain "shelf" shows one kind of vibration and two different kinds of vibration is introduces into this piece from a power cable and a signal cable this can cause a "crash" creating new harmful vibration inside. It could be all about making these vibrations work together in a good way.

Measuring vibration is like measuring the frequency response of a speaker. It is only one factor out of a multitude of factors to judge the quality of sound reproduction. The human ear/brain on the other side works integratively, takes ALL factors into account and is therefore able to give a valid result in a few seconds of comparisons with the right method. I do not believe that measuring vibrations alone is a valid tool to improve music playback.

Matt

matthias wrote:Measuring vibration is like measuring the frequency response of a speaker. It is only one factor out of a multitude of factors to judge the quality of sound reproduction. The human ear/brain on the other side works integratively, takes ALL factors into account and is therefore able to give a valid result in a few seconds of comparisons with the right method. I do not believe that measuring vibrations alone is a valid tool to improve music playback.

Matt

Again I agree. It has to be used together with our ears. Lets say that we find certain messured patterns to be the best in a hifi setup by listening to them of cause. Maybe they are valid in other setups as well.

beck wrote:Again I agree. It has to be used together with our ears. Lets say that we find certain messured patterns to be the best in a hifi setup by listening to them of cause. Maybe they are valid in other setups as well.

Do you know the C37 theory of Dieter Ennemoser:

http://www.ennemoser.com/tntinterview.html ?

Matt

matthias wrote:

beck wrote:Again I agree. It has to be used together with our ears. Lets say that we find certain messured patterns to be the best in a hifi setup by listening to them of cause. Maybe they are valid in other setups as well.

Do you know the C37 theory of Dieter Ennemoser:

http://www.ennemoser.com/tntinterview.html ?

Matt

Ha, ha. You got there. Very interesting. I know that some have tried to copy the best violins but never made it! :-)

I rest my case....... :-)

beck wrote:Ha, ha. You got there. Very interesting. I know that some have tried to copy the best violins but never made it! :-)
I rest my case....... :-)

You can try to apply some C37 lacquer to your circuit boards and your speaker membranes for further improvements and please do not forget the clips.....:-)

Matt

I think I will pass on that idea but thank you none the less. :-)

matthias wrote:

beck wrote:Again I agree. It has to be used together with our ears. Lets say that we find certain messured patterns to be the best in a hifi setup by listening to them of cause. Maybe they are valid in other setups as well.

Do you know the C37 theory of Dieter Ennemoser:

http://www.ennemoser.com/tntinterview.html ?

Matt

Very interesting article. Following up on some of the links was equally interesting. I wonder what those speakers sound like? I'd also like to know how exactly do you apply the body's average temperature to speaker drivers or lacquer? Also if your own typical temperature runs above or below this do the components have to be adjusted? I certainly hope you don't need to have your room at 98.6f for best performance! But I am curious about this.

ThomasOK wrote: Very interesting article. Following up on some of the links was equally interesting. I wonder what those speakers sound like? I'd also like to know how exactly do you apply the body's average temperature to speaker drivers or lacquer? Also if your own typical temperature runs above or below this do the components have to be adjusted? I certainly hope you don't need to have your room at 98.6f for best performance! But I am curious about this.

Yes, it is. There is a web shop where you can order the lacquer for your environment temperature:

https://www.c37.net/default.asp

It would be interesting to try the lacquer at a circuit board which is prone to vibration, for example the 3677 filter board. In Europe there are some hard core folks who apply this lacquer to all the circuit boards, crossover boards and speaker membranes.

Matt

matthias wrote:

ThomasOK wrote: Very interesting article. Following up on some of the links was equally interesting. I wonder what those speakers sound like? I'd also like to know how exactly do you apply the body's average temperature to speaker drivers or lacquer? Also if your own typical temperature runs above or below this do the components have to be adjusted? I certainly hope you don't need to have your room at 98.6f for best performance! But I am curious about this.

Yes, it is. There is a web shop where you can order the lacquer for your environment temperature:

https://www.c37.net/default.asp

It would be interesting to try the lacquer at a circuit board which is prone to vibration, for example the 3677 filter board. In Europe there are some hard core folks who apply this lacquer to all the circuit boards, crossover boards and speaker membranes.

Matt

Do you think this is what Boris Blank from Yello uses to get the extraordinary sound he creates (I have just ordered the new album Toy). :-)