Classic Records Clear Vinyl and Demagnetisers

[Charlie1]

Anyone heard the new Classic Records clear 45rpm LPs that remove the ingredient which causes records to be magnetic?

On the same subject, I read about a vinyl demagnetiser that you wave six times around the LP and it's then sound better. I think you have to chant something at the same and stand on one leg - not sure. Cost £250 which is a bargain I think. Now where's eBay?

[Lego]

Magnetic?What do you have bits of metal flying towards your albums Charlie? :)
The only thing I have is a Cardas album I bought years ago to degauss my cartridge :lol:
Cant remember if it made any worthwhile difference it has a track which is supposed to clean your stylus with a high frequency tone and you can hear the dirt falling on to the LP :lol:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/71863

You can borrow it if you want Charlie,If I can find it

[Lego]

Also Charlie there is a pink noise track which should help the bairn go to sleep so its probably worth it for that alone;or is it white noise that encourages sleep?

[ThomasOK]

Now Charlie, just waving some £250 wand isn't any good. Maybe if it is made of Holly with a Phoenix feather core, 11 inches and nicely supple then it might work - especially if you chant "Alohomora". :)

What you really need is one of these that you can just SET the record on. That way it is more like an altar. It also has the dual advantages of allowing you to demagnetize other items like cables or your nose (your system will sound much better with your nose demagnetized) and it sells for $1980 so you are making Furutech a lot of money and helping the economy (at least that is what they tell us here).

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73520

And since Michael Fremer likes it when used with his $125,000 turntable, it must be good.

In actuality I have never heard any of the demagnetizers so I can't honestly say whether they have any merit. But it is just so enjoyable making fun of them. :)

Now if you really want to get into the Voodoo of Hi-Fi there is likely no better place than Peter Belt's:

http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/

Here you can learn how to treat your system with Quantum Clips and special foils and creams to allow you to experience audio bliss with the simplest of systems by overcoming the negative effects of sunlight having to be filtered in a non-linear manner by the leaves of trees. Be forewarned that you can spend near endless time lost in the byways of this site, but it is amusing taken in small doses.

[Lego]

Peter Belt?Now its getting weird.My favourite was was placing a small piece of paper under one foot of each hifi component and making all the slots in all the screws in your house horizontal!!??I'm sure there was something in it.He didnt claim to make your hifi better just improve your perception of how good your system is.

[Charlie1]

As my Mum often says, 'Their heads are full of broken biscuits!'

Haven't time to look properly at the sites posted, but just wanted to add the link to the Talisman I mentioned b4 as I know there is much interest:

http://www.audiophilecandy.com/prodet.a ... =More+Info

And the Classic Records LPs are called 'Clarity Pressings' and they've removed the trace metals that cause a random magnetic structure.

[Linnofil]

Now Charlie, just waving some £250 wand isn't any good. Maybe if it is made of Holly with a Phoenix feather core, 11 inches and nicely supple then it might work - especially if you chant "Alohomora". :)

Alohomora is the only way to unlock the true potential of your records. The results are truly magic, as you all know... :mrgreen:

[ThomasOK]

In actuality I have never heard any of the demagnetizers so I can't honestly say whether they have any merit. But it is just so enjoyable making fun of them. :)

Well, now I have to eat my words! A customer came by a couple of weeks ago with an old bulk tape eraser he bought off someone and demonstrated using it on LPs. We were all surprised to hear that there was indeed an improvement. However, the bulk eraser he bought (for I believe about $125US) was very difficult to use as you had to hold the record on top and rotate it on the top plate.

I decided to investigate further before I posted anything up here. After looking at the available options on eBay I found a unit that is powerful, cheap and handheld - yes, you do wave it over the record. :) I tried it at home when I was recently doing some listening tests with a friend and my girlfriend and everybody could hear that the demagnetized record sounded substantially better. It was more tuneful and really did sound cleaner as if a haze had been removed. I have to say I am now a convert to record demagnetizing. But I still think it is ridiculous to spend $2000 on a machine to do it. Especially since I paid under $20US including shipping for mine!

The unit I have is a Radio Shack 44-233A High-Power Video/Audio Tape Eraser. It is readily available on eBay and generally goes for less than $30US. There is nothing particularly magic about this unit. I picked it because it is a 'High-Power" unit and I wanted to make sure whatever I bought had enough power to do the job well, and because it has a good handgrip and trigger switch so it is easy to hold over the record and operate. I'm sure there are many other similar devices out there that would work just as well. Here is a photo of my unit:



So there you go - it really works. You can improve the sound of your records in about 30 seconds each and for very little money - isn't life wonderful.

[Charlie1]

Not sure how wonderful it is just yet. Is this something that wears off quickly do you know? I don't mind if it only needs doing once in a blue moon, but don't want to be ironing my LPs every time they need playing.

...mind you, you did say 'substantially better'

[SaltyDog]

Not to doubt the ears, but how has it been determined that vinyl is magnetized? Has anyone used a field indicator of gauss meter on an LP?

Are we sure it's not static electric?

My Loricraft PRC3 removes static while cleaning. Nothing I've heard improves an LP like it.

How does it do for MM cartridges?

Am I sceptical - you bet.

Posted by ThomasOK is the only reason I give it a second thought.

[lejonklou]

I'm very sceptical too...

I'd like to know exactly what is magnetic in the vinyl record. Has anyone been listening to the magnetic information contained in your records? It should be really easy - I have an old cassette deck that I can remove the play head from and then mount it so that it runs flat against a spinning LP.

If I make this arrangement, I could record the sounds and put the files up here for everyone to hear. Would it be amazing if we heard some different songs than what's engraved in the vinyl? Like a hidden second album. Or maybe secret messages from another dimension? Or maybe we'll hear the technician's comments from the recording room? :mrgreen:

If there is any sound retrieved at all, I'll promise to buy a bulk eraser right away!

Seriously speaking, Thomas, I'm happy for the information you've shared. It would be really nice to get a long term report - if repeated treatments are necessary, etc.

[ThomasOK]

Yeah, I know, I know... Of course, cables can't possibly sound different in one direction than they can in another, power cables certainly can't make a difference only being the last meter or two in a long power delivery chain, and who could possibly believe that you could hear the difference in a few thousandths of a Nm in the torque of the screws that hold parts of your turntable together - much less your electronics? :)

The theory as to why it can make an improvement is that the carbon used to make records black has impurities that include magnetic materials. These magnetic materials are able to pick up a magnetic charge although obviously a very slight one. Since most pickup cartridges work off magnetic systems that themselves use fairly small amounts of magnetism they can, therefore, have their ability to convert the signal properly damaged by the residual magnetism in the vinyl.

I do plan to play with this some more and report back on what I find. For instance, the question by SaltyDog about MM cartridges is worth checking out as they have a different magnetic structure from MC cartridges. To answer the other question it is definitely not a static electrical problem as the demagnetizer would not effect the static electrical field.

You note that I showed the same level of skepticism when the idea was first mentioned here. When a customer first demonstrated it I and my co-workers were rather surprised. It was not until I purchased a unit for my own testing at home that I felt comfortable enough with what I heard to publish my findings here. I put them up without waiting to test every variable in case others might want to try a rather cheap upgrade for themselves. After all, if you don't find an improvement you can always put the unit back on eBay and not be out much.

[lejonklou]

Thanks for the explanation about the carbon.

Ok then, I will get one and try it!

EDIT: Seems the only practical units I find is this model from Radio Shack. Problem is it runs on 115V - which means there will be a LOT of erasing if I plug it into 230V! :lol: Most likely it'll erase itself.
Either I'll have to find another hand held model or arrange a voltage converter that can handle the power (around 1000 Watts).

[ThomasOK]

Fredrik, I would think there would be a European equivalent to this but maybe not. Maybe at 230 volts you can demagnetize all your records at once!

Anyway, I promised an update once I had time to use the demagnetizer some more including some answers for SlatyDog so here it is.

After using the demagnetizer on a few records in the store and testing with various turntables I can say that the effect is quite audible with both the Adikt and Akiva cartridges. Of course, it is more audible with the Akiva but that is just because the Akiva picks up more information.

I'm afraid the bad news is that you really will have to do it quite often for the best musical effect. I have found that playing both sides of a record with either the Akiva or the Adikt is enough to magnetize the record again - at least partially. By that I mean that a record that has been demagnetized and then has both sides played will sound better on the second playing if it is demagnetized again. The difference isn't as big as the first time, and I don't believe it is quite as big when the Adikt was used as opposed to the Akiva, but it is still worth doing. When you think about it this makes sense as the magnets in many cartridges, and certainly in the Akiva, are quite powerful - as Charlie1 found out in his unintended Silly Putty experiment. :) I haven't yet tried to see if playing just one side will magnetize things enough so that you should demagnetize before playing the other side but will probably give it a try at some point.

Finally, no a gauss meter does not indicate any measurable magnetism. Yes, I do own one and it is fairly sensitive as full scale is only 5 gauss. I suppose I could go out and get the version of the meter that reads .5 gauss at full scale but I don't think I really want to spend another $99 on something I really have no other use for. Besides, I don't think you can easily measure why cables are directional but you can certainly hear it.

I am certainly sympathetic to Charlie1 not wanting to be "ironing his LPs" before each play, and I won't claim that I plan to do it religiously. But it really only takes about 30 seconds: just leave the record in the inner sleeve, wave the demagnetizer over the record surface and you're ready to roll. It really doesn't take any more time than cleaning the stylus, which some do before each record or each side, and I believe the improvement it makes is larger than the stylus cleaning (assuming the stylus isn't really dirty).

[Lego]

Question for you Thomas,do you think you could tell if a record has been demagnetized or not ..if not, can it be worth doing it ..?

[lejonklou]

That the effect wears off feels a bit discouraging...

I guess the only way to find out if it's worth bothering with is to actually try it.

One idea I had was to connect two of the Radio Shack models in series - that would make them work fine on 230V. But right now I only find them at a rather high price when including shipping. Hm.

[Per A]

We could also make an experiment!

Since I am the happy owner of a transparent vinyl rendition of David Bowie's Hunky Dory I could compare it to an ordinary black couldn't I? If no difference can be perceived, voila. No magnetism

[ThomasOK]

Question for you Thomas,do you think you could tell if a record has been demagnetized or not ..if not, can it be worth doing it ..?

Possibly, but I wouldn't say it's likely.

But I don't think your question is valid. If you were played a record you had never heard before on someone else's system that you couldn't see, could you tell whether you were listening to an Ekos II or to an Ekos SE?

I can say that if I've just listened to a track on a record that has been demagnetized and then I let both sides of the record play and then play the track again I notice that it doesn't quite sound as musical. Demagnetizing it again restores it to the way I remember it from the first listen.

[ThomasOK]

That the effect wears off feels a bit discouraging...

I agree, although it really is not so much wearing off as being re-magnetized by the phono cartridge. But it amounts to the same thing. Once you hear it though, it is hard to say it is not worth it.

[ThomasOK]

We could also make an experiment!

Since I am the happy owner of a transparent vinyl rendition of David Bowie's Hunky Dory I could compare it to an ordinary black couldn't I? If no difference can be perceived, voila. No magnetism

Unfortunately, I don't believe this would tell you much. First off your black version would need to have been cut on the same lathe, from the same master, by the same technician and pressed on the same press from equal quality and thickness of vinyl, except for it being black, to even have a hope of working.

Even then it is unlikely to work as the record pressings are too variable. I have a little tale to illustrate this. A few months ago we decided to do a test of a couple of different record cleaning fluids using the store VPI HW27 record cleaning machine. We wanted to test the VPI fluid vs. the L'Art du Son fluid. To try to make a truly unbiased comparison it was felt we should use three unopened copies of the same LP. We used the Hugh Masakela "Hope" album which was an "audiophile" 45RPM pressing because three of us who work here had just bought copies from the same batch. The idea was to clean one with each fluid and leave one uncleaned as a check. However, we had the presence to listen to all three first just to make sure they were the same. I'm sure you have figured out the punch line by now: they were all different! :( We still did the test and found that the L'Art du Son was definitely better than the VPI fluid. A record that had been cleaned with the VPI fluid sounded better when it had been cleaned again by the L'Art du Son whereas one cleaned with L'Art du Son sounded worse if "re-cleaned" with VPI. In the end we cleaned all three records with L'Art du Son and they all sounded more similar than they had fresh from the jacket, but they still sounded somewhat different. :(

[Lego]

Do we conclude that the vpi make virgin records sound worse?....no further questlons your honour

[k_numigl]

Hi Thomas (and others, too, of course).

But I must express my gratitude to Thomas first, to have brought attention
to the problem of demagnetizing. Of course, I'm as skeptical as
everybody else at the first instant, but then - most of the seemingly
evident conclusions we make are based on experience coming first,
and explanation coming later (only then regarded as 'natural'). Even
in science there is little true prediction. Long word's short meaning:
I gave it a try and demagnetized two records (with an old style
computer tape eraser I had at hands) yesterday.

The result is simply convincing. Fini.

P.S.: My suggestion is, that Linn includes it in the Radikal set, perhaps
as a replacement for the strobe light .....

Thanks again, Klaus

[ThomasOK]

The post from Klaus brought my attention back to this and I realized I should probably do an update. For starters, I am still demagnetizing my vinyl and definitely feel it is worthwhile. I have gotten to the point where I will sometimes put on a record, notice a bit of harshness in it and realize I haven't demagnetized it. I will then demagnetize it and find I can now relax into the music. Once you are used to doing it it really isn't much of a hassle - no more so than cleaning the stylus. I have the demagnetizer plugged in near the record cabinet (away from the Hi-Fi and on a different circuit) and I just lay the record on a table in its sleeve and run the demagnetizer over it for 30 seconds and I'm ready to play.

I have found that the magnetization problem is also not just a feature of black vinyl records. On a Pink Floyd record I have pressed on transparent blue vinyl the demagnetizing made at least as much difference as on a black record. So the impurities that are magnetic aren't just part of the black pigment. The only record that did not improve with demagnetizing is one of the Clarity records that started this whole thread. To check it out I purchased a 45RPM single of "St. James Infirmary" by Louis Armstrong on Clarity vinyl. I already owned the same 45RPM single on black vinyl and consider it one of the best recordings I have ever heard - it is just an amazingly lifelike recording. When I first got the Clarity LP I compared it to the demagnetized black version and the Clarity sounded a little better but not decisively so. I then brought both records and the demagnetizer into the store and did a thorough cleaning on the VPI machine of both to make sure they were on equal footing and demagnetized the black one again. I then compared them for a group of people here on a fully loaded LP12. I started with the black record, played a minute or so, then restarted for about 30 seconds and then switched to the Clarity vinyl (standard A/A/B comparison). Everyone was so engrossed in the music from the Clarity version that we all listened until the end. When it ended I asked if anyone wanted to hear A again and was greeted with the question "What A?" It was definitely that much better.

The owner has bought one of the Clarity 45s and says he feels it is the best recording technology he has ever heard. I have noticed that they are starting to come out with 33s in Clarity vinyl as well which should be welcome by those who don't relish flipping the record after five minutes!

I have not been able to compare my Louis Armstrong recording to an original 33 pressing so I can't say for sure it is better, all I can say is it sounds really great. Considering how much better the original Blue Note of Norah Jones first record sounds compared to the Classic Records 200gm pressing I am a little leery of their mastering setup so I will have to try and find an original of "St. James Infirmary" for comparison. Or I could put out the big bucks (about $50) for the Clarity 45 version of the first Norah Jones record that is coming out and compare that to the Blue Note 33.

Anyway, demagnetizing works, is cheap and relatively easy - what more could you ask?

[Per A]

Well you can also pay > $2000

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue4 ... _demag.htm

[lejonklou]

Thanks for the update, Klaus and Thomas!

I have been looking at a few of the units that Thomas has mentioned, but they are all North American 110V versions. What demag did you use, Klaus?

I've been thinking about buying two and connecting them in series. That will be quite powerful, as they consume 6 Amperes each. That's 1400 Watts of demag over my vinyl, more power than the vacuum cleaner consumes! I may risk blowing a fuse...